Cap Badge Identification/Confirmation Please:

[Knotty]

As I have mentioned on your other posting, could it be a studio photo taken before deployment and the pith helmet just a prop? (the badge being coincidental)?

[DavidOwen]

Any clues as to the furniture? (Not to my untrained eye)

Is that a wedding ring, do you know when he got married? 

Might he have been posted from Italy to join the new Bn and drawn tropical kit from the store prior to leaving?

 

[EDWARD1]

Would a post of the full photo throw up any further clues of identification ?

[FROGSMILE]

18 minutes ago, Knotty said:

As I have mentioned on your other posting, could it be a studio photo taken before deployment and the pith helmet just a prop? (the badge being coincidental)?

Helmets were usually issued before deployment and one often sees battalions boarding a Trooper wearing them. I think there’s way too much credence given to the existence of photographers props as including contemporary issue equipment.  Apart from anything else they would have run the risk of being charged with theft of government equipment, regardless of how they sourced any such items.

Edited 5 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[MERLINV12]

[FROGSMILE]

The Cheshire’s seems like quite a good match going purely by the badge.

[MERLINV12]

26 minutes ago, Knotty said:

Sorry to throw this one into the mix, could it just be a studio photo taken before his overseas deployment and the pith helmet is just a prop?

That has crossed my mind, but impossible to say.

[FROGSMILE]

8 minutes ago, MERLINV12 said:

That has crossed my mind, but impossible to say.

As Knotty has repeated himself I’ll take the liberty of doing the same.  Helmets were usually issued before deployment and one often sees battalions boarding a Trooper wearing them. I think there’s way too much credence given to the existence of photographers props as including contemporary issue equipment.  Apart from anything else they would have run the risk of being charged with theft of government equipment, regardless of how they sourced any such items.  It’s true that obsolete items were sometimes seen, old items of Scottish dress being especially popular, but apart from that there’s very little evidence.

Edited 5 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[MERLINV12]

5 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

The Cheshire’s seems like quite a good match going purely by the badge.

As he only served with OBLI & Worcesters, if you and others are correct, then it must be studio pose as Knotty suggested.

 

Edited 5 October , 2021 by MERLINV12

[MERLINV12]

Sorry, posts crossed.

[FROGSMILE]

4 minutes ago, MERLINV12 said:

As he only served with OBLI & Worcesters, if you and others are correct, then it must be studio pose as Knotty suggested.

It’s extremely unlikely that he’d be content to be photographed, in uniform, with a badge that wasn’t his own.  The only time I’ve seen that with any provenance was in a prisoner of war camp in Germany.  If the Worcestershire’s are a regiment in his service history then that seems the most likely, but you don’t appear to be able to pin down with any certainty the likely theatre where the portrait was taken.

Edited 5 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[MERLINV12]

29 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

Is that a wedding ring, do you know when he got married? 

1914, so of no help.

[MERLINV12]

1 hour ago, Ron Clifton said:

3rd Bn O&BLI only served in the UK.

That is what I thought, however I have the SR's of several of the Service Nos either side of his, and they all show the 3rd Batt Posted to France and embarking on 20/10/18, arriving at DBD on 24th and then all being transferred to 1/8th batt Worcesters on the 28/10/18, (I have a block of 25 men, there maybe more) whether that is defined as serving I don't know. There is no War Diary for 3rd OBLI, so presumably that confirms they didn't "serve".

Don't shoot , I am a novice at all this.

Edited 5 October , 2021 by MERLINV12

[Tawhiri]

The medal rolls show Herbert W Shepherd as serving with both the 3rd Res(erve?) Battalion of the Oxford and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry, with service number 49464, and the 1/8th Battalion of the Worcestershire Regiment, with service number 59536. The corresponding medal index card shows what looks like a subsequent transfer back to the Oxford and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry with service number 45943.

Images sourced from Ancestry:

Edited 5 October , 2021 by Tawhiri

[MERLINV12]

THANKS   I have this, as an aside the Irving Shepherd shown on the role is his younger brother.

[MERLINV12]

32 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

you don’t appear to be able to pin down with any certainty the likely theatre where the portrait was taken.

That is the problem, as people have pointed out 3rd Batt OBLI never served overseas, and 1/8th Worcesters didn't serve anywhere they would need tropical uniform, the only possible explanation is that he was with another Batt of OBLI (not recorded) during his second stint with them post war and they served where it was required.

[FROGSMILE]

32 minutes ago, MERLINV12 said:

That is the problem, as people have pointed out 3rd Batt OBLI never served overseas, and 1/8th Worcesters didn't serve anywhere they would need tropical uniform, the only possible explanation is that he was with another Batt of OBLI (not recorded) during his second stint with them post war and they served where it was required.

He can’t be in the O&BLI with that cap badge on the helmet.  I think this has been taken as far as if can be without more accurate information.

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, MERLINV12 said:

That is what I thought, however I have the SR's of several of the Service Nos either side of his, and they all show the 3rd Batt Posted to France and embarking on 20/10/18, arriving at DBD on 24th and then all being transferred to 1/8th batt Worcesters on the 28/10/18, (I have a block of 25 men, there maybe more) whether that is defined as serving I don't know. There is no War Diary for 3rd OBLI, so presumably that confirms they didn't "serve".

Don't shoot , I am a novice at all this.

The 3rd was a reserve battalion, from which trained men were dispatched in drafts to France.  As such it appeared on their documents as the parent unit until until such time as they reached the associated infantry base depot (IBD), whence they were posted to an operational unit.  Only operational units kept a war diary.  As a reserve battalion the 3rd never left the home establishment (Great Britain and Ireland).

Edited 5 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Keith_history_buff]

A thread where there was some confusion of a draft of men taken from the pool of men in 3rd (Reserve) Battalion, and sent to France, to join 2nd Battalion, Sussex Regiment

 

[Moonraker]

4 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Helmets were usually issued before deployment and one often sees battalions boarding a Trooper wearing them. I think there’s way too much credence given to the existence of photographers props as including contemporary issue equipment.  Apart from anything else they would have run the risk of being charged with theft of government equipment, regardless of how they sourced any such items.

I've seen photos of troops marching from their English training camps (eg Fovant IIRC) in tropical kit, including pith helmets but not shorts. It could be that before embarkation some of them may have visited the studio of a local photographer - who might also have visited the camp himself.

[FROGSMILE]

20 minutes ago, Moonraker said:

I've seen photos of troops marching from their English training camps (eg Fovant IIRC) in tropical kit, including pith helmets but not shorts. It could be that before embarkation some of them may have visited the studio of a local photographer - who might also have visited the camp himself.

Yes indeed, isn’t that what I just said?  It has to be issued first if “photographed boarding a Trooper”.  The shirt worn is not normal issue, nor is it smart as it would have to be before leaving Britain (he would never have got out of Britain looking like that).  Add to that a cap badge that doesn’t match the narrative and the whole thing becomes a busted flush.

Edited 5 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[aim]

We are presuming the photograph shows the friend's grandfather. Could it be someone else?

 

aim

[aim]

Just seen the other thread "Tropical Uniform - Italy". Worth combining the two?

aim

[FROGSMILE]

8 minutes ago, aim said:

We are presuming the photograph shows the friend's grandfather. Could it be someone else?

 

aim

That would seem like a more sensible line of inquiry to me.

[MERLINV12]

11 hours ago, aim said:

We are presuming the photograph shows the friend's grandfather. Could it be someone else?

 

aim

No, definitely his GF, the family have lots of labelled photos of him (in civvies, wedding etc).