FROGSMILE Posted 6 October , 2021 Share Posted 6 October , 2021 12 hours ago, aim said: Just seen the other thread "Tropical Uniform - Italy". Worth combining the two? aim Yes I agree, there is inevitably a lot of duplication at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 6 October , 2021 Admin Share Posted 6 October , 2021 I’ve merged the two threads as suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MERLINV12 Posted 6 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 6 October , 2021 2 hours ago, Michelle Young said: I’ve merged the two threads as suggested. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 6 October , 2021 Share Posted 6 October , 2021 (edited) I believe the photo is most likely of the man (Herbert Shepherd) who the family think it is, that he is wearing the cap badge of the Worcestershire Regiment and that the photo was probably taken in Egypt sometime between June and October 6th 1919. Reliance on the Medal Rolls doesn't give the full picture as the detail contained in them pretty much stops on 11/11/1918 as far as the medal entitlement is concerned, the rolls aren't overly concerned with post-war service although many do cover dates etc. where that service continued. Shepherd's roll entry doesn't even mention the O.B.L.I. battalion that administered the medals as this was outside the remit of the rolls... Service Records (or parts thereof) for O.B.L.I. #49413 (H. Merritt), #49429 (J. McIntyre), #49459 (F. Richardson) and #49477 (F. Tomkinson) exist that show a posting to 2/8th Worcestershire Regiment in March 1919, a move to Alexandria in Egypt in June 1919 and a transfer to the 2/4th O.B.L.I. on October 6th 1919 and I firmly believe that this ultimately is the same (or a very similar) scenario for Herbert Shepherd. The snapshot below is from #49459 O.B.L.I. (F. Richardson) via FindmyPast... Steve Edited 6 October , 2021 by SteveE Additional content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aim Posted 6 October , 2021 Share Posted 6 October , 2021 8 hours ago, Michelle Young said: I’ve merged the two threads as suggested. Thanks for that! I'm still not showing on the "Recently Browsing" lists, but this is not really important. aim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 6 October , 2021 Admin Share Posted 6 October , 2021 See here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 6 October , 2021 Share Posted 6 October , 2021 5 hours ago, SteveE said: I believe the photo is most likely of the man (Herbert Shepherd) who the family think it is, that he is wearing the cap badge of the Worcestershire Regiment and that the photo was probably taken in Egypt sometime between June and October 6th 1919. Reliance on the Medal Rolls doesn't give the full picture as the detail contained in them pretty much stops on 11/11/1918 as far as the medal entitlement is concerned, the rolls aren't overly concerned with post-war service although many do cover dates etc. where that service continued. Shepherd's roll entry doesn't even mention the O.B.L.I. battalion that administered the medals as this was outside the remit of the rolls... Service Records (or parts thereof) for O.B.L.I. #49413 (H. Merritt), #49429 (J. McIntyre), #49459 (F. Richardson) and #49477 (F. Tomkinson) exist that show a posting to 2/8th Worcestershire Regiment in March 1919, a move to Alexandria in Egypt in June 1919 and a transfer to the 2/4th O.B.L.I. on October 6th 1919 and I firmly believe that this ultimately is the same (or a very similar) scenario for Herbert Shepherd. The snapshot below is from #49459 O.B.L.I. (F. Richardson) via FindmyPast... Steve That sounds eminently likely to me Steve. You might well have solved the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MERLINV12 Posted 7 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 7 October , 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, SteveE said: I believe the photo is most likely of the man (Herbert Shepherd) who the family think it is, that he is wearing the cap badge of the Worcestershire Regiment and that the photo was probably taken in Egypt sometime between June and October 6th 1919. Reliance on the Medal Rolls doesn't give the full picture as the detail contained in them pretty much stops on 11/11/1918 as far as the medal entitlement is concerned, the rolls aren't overly concerned with post-war service although many do cover dates etc. where that service continued. Shepherd's roll entry doesn't even mention the O.B.L.I. battalion that administered the medals as this was outside the remit of the rolls... Service Records (or parts thereof) for O.B.L.I. #49413 (H. Merritt), #49429 (J. McIntyre), #49459 (F. Richardson) and #49477 (F. Tomkinson) exist that show a posting to 2/8th Worcestershire Regiment in March 1919, a move to Alexandria in Egypt in June 1919 and a transfer to the 2/4th O.B.L.I. on October 6th 1919 and I firmly believe that this ultimately is the same (or a very similar) scenario for Herbert Shepherd. The snapshot below is from #49459 O.B.L.I. (F. Richardson) via FindmyPast... Steve Steve, Many thanks for your efforts, I also feel you have solved the puzzle, some further information came forth from the family late yesterday, which ties up with your thoughts. I will expand in another post later this morning. Michael. Edited 7 October , 2021 by MERLINV12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MERLINV12 Posted 7 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 7 October , 2021 (edited) So, the family found the original photo, which I scanned @ 4800 dpi and enhanced, and I am now 99.999% sure the cap badge is Worcestershire Regt. I found a date on the reverse of the photo "21 July 1919", which confirms SteveE's thoughts and period when photo was taken, and also fits in with his theory on "a move to Alexandria in Egypt in June 1919", which in turn matches the family legend, "was posted to Alexandria/Egypt to control unrest". Steve's theory of a transfer to 2/8th Worcestershire Regiment in March 1919, also looks good, as we have evidence of him leaving the 1/8th Worcesters on 25th March 1919. I will update as soon as I have any new info, and once again my sincere thanks to Steve for his vital efforts, and everyone else that has contributed so far. Michael. Edited 7 October , 2021 by MERLINV12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 7 October , 2021 Share Posted 7 October , 2021 11 minutes ago, MERLINV12 said: So, the family found the original photo, which I scanned @ 4800 dpi and enhanced, and I am now 99.999% sure the cap badge is Worcestershire Regt. I found a date on the reverse of the photo "21 July 1919", which confirms SteveE's thoughts and period when photo was taken, and also fits in with his theory on "a move to Alexandria in Egypt in June 1919", which in turn matches the family legend, "was posted to Alexandria/Egypt to control unrest". Steve's theory of a transfer to 2/8th Worcestershire Regiment in March 1919, also looks good, as we have evidence of him leaving the 1/8th Worcesters on 25th March 1919. I will update as soon as I have any new info, and once again my sincere thanks to Steve for his vital efforts, and everyone else that has contributed so far. Michael. Certainly can't argue with that, Worcestershire Regiment it is. I stand corrected. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 7 October , 2021 Share Posted 7 October , 2021 (edited) Excellent stuff MERLINV12, it’s good to get to the bottom of it. From the original photo I certainly couldn’t divide the Worcestershire/Cheshire options apart on the basis of the insignia alone, so the historical family knowledge of the Worcestershire’s connection was always a key factor. Edited 7 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 7 October , 2021 Share Posted 7 October , 2021 5 hours ago, MERLINV12 said: So, the family found the original photo, which I scanned @ 4800 dpi and enhanced, and I am now 99.999% sure the cap badge is Worcestershire Regt. I found a date on the reverse of the photo "21 July 1919", which confirms SteveE's thoughts and period when photo was taken, and also fits in with his theory on "a move to Alexandria in Egypt in June 1919", which in turn matches the family legend, "was posted to Alexandria/Egypt to control unrest". Steve's theory of a transfer to 2/8th Worcestershire Regiment in March 1919, also looks good, as we have evidence of him leaving the 1/8th Worcesters on 25th March 1919. I will update as soon as I have any new info, and once again my sincere thanks to Steve for his vital efforts, and everyone else that has contributed so far. Michael. Michael It's always good to get confirmation and I think that's been sufficiently provided... I haven't done a complete analysis of the O.B.L.I. numbers but it does appear from a quick glance that the majority (if not all) of their service numbers in the #494xx range were transfers from the Worcestershire Regiment and organised pretty much alphabetically. A wholesale transfer such as that may well have been recorded in the battalion's war diary which is available at NA, Kew but hasn't been digitized. NA ref. WO 95/4703 covers 2/4 Battalion Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry (1919 June - Oct) and NA ref. WO 95/4586 that of 2/4 Battalion Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry (1919 Nov - 1920 Feb). There might also be something recorded in the 2/8 Bn. Worcester's war diary, same caveats apply for NA Ref. WO 95/4655 which covers 2/8 Battalion Worcestershire Regiment (1919 June - Sept). However, the period before that for 2/8 Worcesters (NA ref. WO 95/3057/2) is available currently as a free download from NA, Kew and interestingly has this to show for March 1919, March 27 onwards being particularly relevant to this thread... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MERLINV12 Posted 7 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 7 October , 2021 Steve, Have found much the same as you, the ones I need have not be done yet. Found that he arrived at 2/8th with 82 others from 1/8th (as you attached). Any idea how I can pin down when he left Alexandria, I know the troop ship name "HMT Czar", but have no idea how to research "embarkation lists", or whatever they are called, assuming they exist ?? Tried looking through other 2/4th OBLI SR's to find ships, found a couple but not the Czar, wouldn't have thought it would have made too many trips Alex/UK late 1919, early 1920. Thanks once again Michael. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 7 October , 2021 Share Posted 7 October , 2021 59 minutes ago, MERLINV12 said: Any idea how I can pin down when he left Alexandria, I know the troop ship name "HMT Czar", but have no idea how to research "embarkation lists", or whatever they are called, assuming they exist ?? Michael It would have to be done at NA, Kew but I would assume that the ship would hopefully be recorded in the WO 25 series of Embarkation Returns from "Abroad for Home". Returns I've looked at in the past vary in content, they will be extremely unlikely to list him by name but should give the numbers of ORs embarked for a particular battalion aboard a ship. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_dss=range&_ro=any&_p=1900&_srt=4&_q=wo+25+"abroad+for+home" Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MERLINV12 Posted 8 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 8 October , 2021 Steve, Thanks for the info once again, looks like it will be a while before I can attempt to finish the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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