Remount Regiment

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

Unlike others he does not appear to have been enlisted into the Army Remount Service and he certainly wasn’t commissioned.  Ergo there’s no evidence that he wore uniform.  He seems to have been a specialist civil servant with a high grade, i.e. inspector, under contract to the war office.  It would have given him managerial authority as a type of ‘consultant’, in his case regarding prime horseflesh and advising on suitability as military remounts.  Similarly there seem to have been civilian veterinary assistants too.  It all enabled the war office to make use of useful experience without necessarily obliging everyone to be in uniform.

Thank you.

Regarding Mr. O'Rorke that certainly does seem to fit the general impression gleaned from the press articles etc.  So potentially for others in similar positions too.

I was wondering if, in that role, he would have been likely to have similar duties at several/other Remount depots - and thus potentially report higher in the military chain of command.

Or whether likely to be to a single depot only, such as at Sysonby? - A depot being commanded by a Major it would seem.

Would he have any direct management/command function where ever he was?

Or would it be report up higher/sideways first to come back again? [which is the likely lot of a specialist consultant advisor in such a role in civilian life]

How would he work with depot military chain of command?

Would he be likely to have any staff of his own - civilian [who would pay for those?] or military at any given depot?

I have no idea how such a civilian specialist would work in a military situation such as a Remount depot, especially alongside military vets. 

I might think perhaps potentially with a civilian boss somewhere in the civil hierarchy too??

[I would have similar questions regarding the civilian vets in similar roles as you have likewise mentioned]

= How would it likely work?

Ideas welcomed.
:-) M

[FROGSMILE]

On 01/09/2021 at 16:47, Matlock1418 said:

Thank you.

Regarding Mr. O'Rorke that certainly does seem to fit the general impression gleaned from the press articles etc.  So potentially for others in similar positions too.

I was wondering if, in that role, he would have been likely to have similar duties at several/other Remount depots - and thus potentially report higher in the military chain of command.

Or whether likely to be to a single depot only, such as at Sysonby? - A depot being commanded by a Major it would seem.

Would he have any direct management/command function where ever he was?

Or would it be report up higher/sideways first to come back again? [which is the likely lot of a specialist consultant advisor in such a role in civilian life]

How would he work with depot military chain of command?

Would he be likely to have any staff of his own - civilian [who would pay for those?] or military at any given depot?

I have no idea how such a civilian specialist would work in a military situation such as a Remount depot, especially alongside military vets. 

I might think perhaps potentially with a civilian boss somewhere in the civil hierarchy too??

[I would have similar questions regarding the civilian vets in similar roles as you have likewise mentioned]

= How would it likely work?

Ideas welcomed.
:-) M

With respect I think you are making way too much of it.  He seems to have been a consultant with a fairly limited remit that required/involved him at a fairly mature age riding (presumably on a needs must basis judged by him) potential remounts to clarify some aspect of their suitability.  He was an "Inspector", not a department head or chief executive based on what we know about him, which is not a high level remit.  I doubt that he had any personal staff at all.  He was contactable I imagine through his place of abode, regardless of who the communication came from (probably a remount department at the war office, where there were dedicated staff officers covering the matter - see other thread).  He does not appear (as far as we can tell) to have had a regular, dedicated office with a desk, it wasn't that kind of job.  A key point is that matters at that level would have been funded as efficiently as possible, something that was part and parcel of infrastructure administration at that time (i.e. as the staff of a headquarters was incredibly small when looked at today despite modern communications).  It would have been done as cheaply as possible (in principle).  That's not to say that horseflesh was unimportant, clearly it was not, although there was recognition I think, even then, that motorisation was the future.  In my (past) experience consultants are contacted by phone from a tasking office and they negotiate a suitable date in their diary.  Once there they do what was required and report back, first to the contractor, and then to the office that tasked them.

Edited 26 January , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Matlock1418]

4 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

With respect I think you are making way too much of it.  He seems to have been a consultant with a fairly limited remit that required/involved him at a fairly mature age riding (presumably on a needs must basis judged by him) potential remounts to clarify some aspect of their suitability.  He was an "Inspector", not a department head or chief executive based on what we know about him, which is not a high level remit.  I doubt that he had any personal staff at all.  He was contactable I imagine through his place of abode, regardless of who the communication came from (probably a remount department at the war office, where there were dedicated staff officers covering the matter - see other thread).  He does not appear (as far as we can tell) to have had a regular office with a desk, it wasn't that kind of job.  A key point is that matters at that level would have been funded as cheaply (and efficiently) as possible, something that was part and parcel of infrastructure administration at that time (i.e. a the staff of a headquarters was incredibly small when looked at today despite modern communications).  It would have been as done cheaply as possible (in principle).  That's not to say that horseflesh was unimportant, clearly it was not, although there was recognition I think, even then, that motorisation was the future.  In my (past) experience consultants are contacted by phone from a tasking office and they negotiate a suitable date in their diary.  Once there they do what was required and report back, first to the vendor, and then to the office that tasked them.

Perhaps - out of my acknowledged ignorance.  Hence the enquiry.

Thank you for your reply.

Without your military experience I just wondered how he/they worked - more informed, but still wondering.

Hey ho! ...

:-) M

[FROGSMILE]

7 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Perhaps - out of my acknowledged ignorance.  Hence the enquiry.

Thank you for your reply.

Without your military experience I just wondered how he/they worked - more informed, but still wondering.

Hey ho! ...

:-) M

You're most welcome, but barring the discovery of his personal diary, it seems to me that we have squeezed the last drop out of a well wrung flannel.  In this case I would account it to government civil-military interface experience rather than specifically military matters.

Edited 1 September , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

You're most welcome, but barring the discovery of his personal diary, it seems to me that we have squeezed the last drop out of a well wrung flannel.  In this case I would account it to government civil-military interface experience rather than specifically military matters.

I appreciate your government civil-military interface experience.

We perhaps agree on having tried to wring the flannel, as you put it on Mr. O'Rorke, and we are certainly still short of his personal account, or another's, of his specific experiences [which certainly would be very nice - we can but live in speculation of something turning up].

And yet we still don't seem to have got to the bottom of the general way of such civil-military workings, barely seeming to have scratched the surface really, so I feel it is a bit early to be actively shut such enquiries down.

= I think now that others may perhaps be able to alternatively provide a general account)s) of services such as he provided within/at Remount depots, and/or possibly another similar person's account of theirs - I trust of potential and useful interest to various members.

In hopeful anticipation ...
:-) M

[FROGSMILE]

1 minute ago, Matlock1418 said:

I appreciate your government civil-military interface experience.

We perhaps agree on having tried to wring the flannel, as you put it on Mr. O'Rorke, and we are certainly still short of his personal account, or another's, of his specific experiences [which certainly would be very nice - we can but live in speculation of something turning up].

And yet we still don't seem to have got to the bottom of the general way of such civil-military workings, barely seeming to have scratched the surface really, so I feel it is a bit early to be actively shut such enquiries down.

= I think now that others may perhaps be able to alternatively provide a general account)s) of services such as he provided within/at Remount depots, and/or possibly another similar person's account of theirs - I trust of potential and useful interest to various members.

In hopeful anticipation ...
:-) M

I wish you well with your determined investigations and certainly wasn’t trying to shut down your seeking of further details, I merely meant that it’s wrung out as far as I’m concerned…

[Matlock1418]

1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said:

I wish you well with your determined investigations and certainly wasn’t trying to shut down your seeking of further details, I merely meant that it’s wrung out as far as I’m concerned…

:-) M

[BRNZ]

sorry I am bit late to the party but working on a history of NZ Golf.  E. D. O'Rorke was influential in a couple of NZ's oldest golf clubs, finding and laying out the course for Christchurch golf club, NZ's 2nd oldest club.  He was also club captain of auckland golf club at one time, and his wife captain of the ladies club.  They donated the O'Rorke Challenge Vase for interclub championships which is still played for today.  he played at least one NZ golf championship.

He was master of a hunt club, horse breeder and racer and representative polo player as well.

You can find several photos of him here - https://digitalnz.org/records?text=e d o'rorke&tab=Images#/

See article on his death from NZ newspaper in 1918

[FROGSMILE]

27 minutes ago, BRNZ said:

sorry I am bit late to the party but working on a history of NZ Golf.  E. D. O'Rorke was influential in a couple of NZ's oldest golf clubs, finding and laying out the course for Christchurch golf club, NZ's 2nd oldest club.  He was also club captain of auckland golf club at one time, and his wife captain of the ladies club.  They donated the O'Rorke Challenge Vase for interclub championships which is still played for today.  he played at least one NZ golf championship.

He was master of a hunt club, horse breeder and racer and representative polo player as well.

You can find several photos of him here - https://digitalnz.org/records?text=e d o'rorke&tab=Images#/

See article on his death from NZ newspaper in 1918

That adds a very interesting footnote to O’Rorke’s story, thank you for posting.  He certainly lived a full life!  It was especially interesting I thought to read of his sons.  It’s easy to understand how invested he was in the war effort.  I enclose these two fine photos of him courtesy of DigitalNZ.

Edited 14 January , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Matlock1418]

9 hours ago, BRNZ said:

sorry I am bit late to the party but working on a history of NZ Golf.  E. D. O'Rorke was influential in a couple of NZ's oldest golf clubs, finding and laying out the course for Christchurch golf club, NZ's 2nd oldest club.  He was also club captain of auckland golf club at one time, and his wife captain of the ladies club.  They donated the O'Rorke Challenge Vase for interclub championships which is still played for today.  he played at least one NZ golf championship.

He was master of a hunt club, horse breeder and racer and representative polo player as well.

You can find several photos of him here - https://digitalnz.org/records?text=e d o'rorke&tab=Images#/

Never too late!

The OP was working on the war memorial at the Royal & Ancient, St. Andrews, so hope we have added to your story from the other side of the globe.

A very unfortunate and sad end for Mr. O'Rourke.

Many thanks for your interesting search link - some great photos of his earlier exploits..

M