The Inspector Posted 15 April , 2020 Share Posted 15 April , 2020 Hi All 12 hours ago, The Inspector said: Hi All Tom Pickles had an injury to his left hand. "GSW left hand incomplete extension of ring & small finger" as per medical record. "The wound entrance was from the palm between the 4th and 5th metacarpal bones of exit on dorsum between heals of same bones. Scar over drainage wound over 3rd metacarpal bone".... His left hand looks to have a large scar on it to me and his small finger is definitely not extended. No matter how I try I can't bend my small finger to that extent whilst my ring finger stays extended. Try it. Comments folks! Regards Barry Frogsmile, thanks for your input. but I still think it is Tom Pickles. Tom had two older brothers, no army service records for either of them. Can't find any cousins who served either. Tew, The injury to his left hand is consistent with the deformity on the photograph and the wounds had healed, apparently without any difficulty, record says "All wounds healed". The fingers of his left hand, in particular his ring finger, are darker in colour and is also consistent with his medical record "Hand cyanosed and much colder than right". Perhaps someone can superimpose the photos. for comparison, or post them side by side, they always end up on top of each other when I do it. Missed the lessons. Too much of a coincidence ,for me, for this not to be Tom Pickles. Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 15 April , 2020 Share Posted 15 April , 2020 (edited) The uniformed photo from what I can see in both topics is an uncaptioned, unidentified photo of a young soldier kept by Great Aunt. The regiment was identified in the other post and the ID was then given to 5288 Pickles. This was quickly de-bunked so 359796 entered the arena based on correct regiment and wound stripe, the latter explained by the GSW in the service record. Just spent a while reading forum posts on the Good Conduct chevron on the left cuff. The regs. say the first one is issued for 2 years good conduct IE no entries in Regt. conduct sheet. Also refered to slightly cynically as undetected crime chevron. This counts for UK troops from joining unit, so home service is included. AIF & CEF have different Regs. 359796 served for a total of 20 months but has an award for 2 years GC. However, there are other forum posts that have the same scenario IE a GC chevron but less than 2 years service proved from other records. No real explanation given but the Regs. State 2 years. One explanation of course is that the photo IDd as Private Soandso with a GC chevron is not him. There is certainly a strong similarity in the two photos. Yesterday I was looking at 2 photos a year apart that are 100% the same man. The more I looked I started having doubts but it cannot be. Sav, Is there any chance of getting a hi-res zoom in of the left hand in uniform photo? Anyone get the 11766 BLY. Bds part? Seen in Image post#9 but also on other sheets. EG ancestry sheet 9807, Medical History of 11766 Bly Bds? TEW Edited 15 April , 2020 by TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbohl Posted 15 April , 2020 Share Posted 15 April , 2020 11 hours ago, TEW said: Is there some doubt that the two photos are of the same man? Difference in the hair part, one left one right Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 15 April , 2020 Share Posted 15 April , 2020 And a slight difference in left ear? TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 15 April , 2020 Share Posted 15 April , 2020 (edited) Hi All Thanks Dave and TEW for the replies. Yes, I agree BUT injury to the left hand? I don't think we can doubt that which is, in my opinion, by far the most important feature. Let's see what "Sav" can come back with, if he does.. I used to have a parting, now I don't but still got the hair! Different angle on the photos? ???Medical record shows GSW HEAD and HAND and Neuritis in both?? At least the GWF makes a change from gardening! Regards Barry Edited 15 April , 2020 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 15 April , 2020 Share Posted 15 April , 2020 Could be wrong but I thought it was originally just the GSW hand L. Then a week after re-joining unit had the neuritis Head & Hand. I get why he'd have neuritis to the hand but not the head. Although with the later description of the injury to hand it can't have recovered in the intervening 2 months. I agree with the scar in non-uniform image, just feel the need to see scar in uniform image (not in voyeuristic way!). TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sav Posted 15 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2020 High Res left hands as requested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbohl Posted 15 April , 2020 Share Posted 15 April , 2020 3 hours ago, The Inspector said: Tom had two older brothers, no army service records Tom's next eldest brother on 1911 is Robert D but on 1901 is surprisingly Robert Smith Pickles, so any military for him ? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 15 April , 2020 Share Posted 15 April , 2020 There is a Robert Pickles with service with Lancs. Fus. 12231 and then Liverpool Regt. 100272. Also shows on Daily Casualty List 5/12/1916 so had a wound stripe!! TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sav Posted 15 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2020 Was the Robert Pickles above 10th Bn Scottish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 15 April , 2020 Share Posted 15 April , 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Sav said: Was the Robert Pickles above 10th Bn Scottish? Hi Medal award rolls, 10th, 11th Lancs.Fus then 29th Kings Liverpool. Regards Barry Edited 15 April , 2020 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 15 April , 2020 Share Posted 15 April , 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, davidbohl said: Tom's next eldest brother on 1911 is Robert D but on 1901 is surprisingly Robert Smith Pickles, so any military for him ? Dave Hi All Robert Smith Pickles was married to Mary Ellen Kemp on 24th July 1920 at St.Bartholomews, Gt.Harwoord, Blackburn. Occ. Miner. his sister Meretta was a witness.. His birth date 12th Aug, 1896...1939 register...looking Regards Barry Edited 15 April , 2020 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbohl Posted 15 April , 2020 Share Posted 15 April , 2020 29 minutes ago, The Inspector said: 29th Kings Liverpool. There's a thread on this unusual battalion https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/222155-29th-kings-liverpool-regiment/ Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 15 April , 2020 Share Posted 15 April , 2020 Hi All Sav, Can you give us more info. on the rest of the family, sometimes turns up trumps from other relatives. Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sav Posted 15 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2020 Unfortunately my grand mother and great aunt have been gone for many years now. I was hoping that a descendant or relative might see this and tell us a little more. All the additional information that I know has come from the 1901 &1911 Censuses, 1939 Register, His service record and MICs. My grandmother identified him as the kilted soldier photo when I was a child. I remember thinking what an unusual name but it fits into the same category as Onions, Marrow etc.. According to the 39 Register he and Edith did have a son also called Tom. He may still be alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 15 April , 2020 Share Posted 15 April , 2020 (edited) Hi Sav, Tom Jnr. b.5.11.1927...searching 1939 register shows another person at the address.. redacted.....there is a Doreen Pickles,( mother's maiden name Makin, Edith died Dec, 1987) b. 1926, 2nd qtr, Burnley, Lancs. 8e, 299. Do you have any knowledge of her? ......... Edith Makin had 2 brothers both younger than her so could not have served in WW1 Regards Barry Edited 15 April , 2020 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sav Posted 15 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2020 (edited) Hello Barry, I've only become aware of Edith in my recent research. My grand father migrated to Australia in 1929 and died in 1938 so contact was lost due to the tyranny of distance. All I knew was a name associated with the kilted soldier. With luck someone from the Pickles family may see this post and make contact. Some years ago I made a post on a long lost half uncle of my wife's, Cuthbert Pickett MM 7th Dragoon Guards. Over a decade later his granddaughter googled him one Armistice Day and up came up with my post so she contacted me through this forum. We have since met up and are in regular contact. All power to this forum as it really enabled me to break through a brick wall. Regards Sav Edited 15 April , 2020 by Sav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbohl Posted 15 April , 2020 Share Posted 15 April , 2020 Three possible leads on the British Newspaper Archive if somebody has access to it. The last one may be his eldest brother Herbert. Dave Hunter-Weston, K.C.8., D.5.0., M.P., commanding Army Corps, British Armies France, Private Pickles, before .. ... much pleasure to his large circle friends the Burnley Lane district. private Pickles the Roll Honour Angle-street Baptist Chapel. .He has brother serving the King's' Liverpool Regiment the same front France. BRIERCLIFFE CHORISTER. St. JAMES'S CHURCH WORKER ... Published:Saturday 17 August 1918Newspaper:Burnley NewsCounty:Lancashire, England KILLED AFTER FIVE WEEKS ... bookkeeper at Messrs. John Haw-kin, and Sons’ Greenbank Mill. He has two brothers at the front. WOUNDED IN ACTION. Pte. T. Pickles(22), Liverpool Scottish, is now inmate in the 2nd Birmingham Military' Hospital, having been wounded in the head whilst ... Published:Saturday 09 September 1916Newspaper:Preston Herald F. CLARKSON, LTD. ... A ; Pte. A. Stacev (7725). Lanes. Fusiliers; Pte. C. Stacey (9890), K.O.K L, Kegt.; Pte. Proctor (3194), 19th King's Liverpool Pte. H.Pickles R.A.M.C-; Driver Thomas Williams (9035), Armv Field Artillery Sergt. J. Place (36265), Machine Gun Corps; Pte' ... Published:Saturday 31 March 1917Newspaper:Burnley News Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 16 April , 2020 Share Posted 16 April , 2020 Hi All, Sav, you may have this... Searching the family, Edith Makin and Tom Pickles Jnr, marr.cert. here..... https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2576/32883_276607-00066?pid=20540124&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid%3D2576%26h%3D20540124%26indiv%3Dtry%26o_vc%3DRecord:OtherRecord%26rhSource%3D2352&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.124746889.229826353.1586160776-1783877415.1578070585 Betty Edmondson Makin (b.1902 d.1968), Edith's sister, married one Herbert Pickles 2nd qtr 1927, Burnley, 8e, 603. ....... Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 16 April , 2020 Share Posted 16 April , 2020 Hi Dave Tom Pickles 359796 was 19 yrs old when he was discharged in 1918. Only enlisted 14.4.17., unless he did serve under another number previously !!! He did have neuritis in his head, cause ?? as well as his hand 29.6.18 casualty record. 9 hours ago, davidbohl said: bookkeeper at Messrs. John Haw-kin, and Sons’ Greenbank Mill. He has two brothers at the front. WOUNDED IN ACTION. Pte. T. Pickles(22), Liverpool Scottish, is now inmate in the 2nd Birmingham Military' Hospital, having been wounded in the head whilst ... Published:Saturday 09 September 1916Newspaper:Preston Herald Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbohl Posted 16 April , 2020 Share Posted 16 April , 2020 10 hours ago, The Inspector said: WOUNDED IN ACTION. Pte. T. Pickles(22), Liverpool Scottish He must be the #5228 in the Preston Herald Tom Pickles Son Male 17 Fulwood Nr Preston, Lancashire 20 hours ago, davidbohl said: Pte. H.Pickles R.A.M.C There is a Pte Herbert Pickles #45362 RAMC 21 hours ago, davidbohl said: private Pickles the Roll Honour Angle-street Baptist Chapel This one was regarding a Henry Pickles #G/15003 Royal Fusiliers Private Pickles is on the Roll of Honour at Angle Street Baptist Chapel. He has a brother serving in the King's Liverpool Regiment on the same front in France. http://www.burnleyinthegreatwar.info/burnleygallantry/picklesmm.htm So all in all the newspapers were no help at all Dave Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 17 April , 2020 Share Posted 17 April , 2020 (edited) Hi Sav, As Edith died in 1987 in the UK(Hyndburn and Rossendale, 40, 1436 Dec, 1987) and her husband Tom emigrated to Australia in 1929 and died 1938 what further information have you on where he lived etc. in Oz. He was 30 yrs old when he left UK so did he divorce and remarry? How do you know he died in 1938? Who registered Edith's death? Regards Barry On 15/04/2020 at 23:19, Sav said: Hello Barry, I've only become aware of Edith in my recent research. My grand father migrated to Australia in 1929 and died in 1938 so contact was lost due to the tyranny of distance. All I knew was a name associated with the kilted soldier. With luck someone from the Pickles family may see this post and make contact. Regards Sav Edited 17 April , 2020 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sav Posted 17 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2020 Hello Barry, There seems to be some confusion here. Tom was Friend of my grandfather John Hindle. It was John who migrated to Australia with his family in 1929 and died in 1938. I don't know what became of Tommy Pickles. Regards Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 17 April , 2020 Share Posted 17 April , 2020 Hi Sav...Ken Confused ....yes.......any idea how the relationship between your grandfather and Tom Pickles came about? Perhaps we need to be searching on John Hindle as well. As much detail of him if possible, please. Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sav Posted 17 April , 2020 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2020 Hello Barry, John and Tom were both coal miners in Huncoat. They were around the same age with John "Jack'" being born Dec 8th 1898. John joined the RMLI in 1918 His number was 2787s. I have his one page service history and his Mutt and Jeff. I also have a couple photos of him in uniform and his unit which I will post on a separated thread on this forum to avoid any confusion. Regards Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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