1st battalion Irish Regt group pic 1914 people of please

[mrfrank]

32 minutes ago, mrfrank said:

 

Maj Hon Leslie James Probyn Butler (Bde-Major, 8th Inf Bde)

 

....and there are images of both Major Butler and Gen Doran on Page 55 of ‘Our Heroes’ 

Edited 9 April , 2020 by mrfrank

[FROGSMILE]

34 minutes ago, mrfrank said:

Maj Hon Leslie J Probyn Butler (Bde-Major, 8th Inf Bde)

 

....and there are images of both Major Butler and Gen Doran on Page 55 of ‘Our Heroes’ 

 

If that is the case then he must be a Brevet Colonel, I think.  Although some aspects changed between WW1 and WW2, especially the wearing of collar tabs by officers below full Colonel, the single row of oak-leaf lace on his peak is categorically only for Colonels.

 

NB.  I've just recalled that the Guards uniquely had a double ranking system where they had a particular rank within the Guards, but then two ranks above in the Army as a whole.  Therefore Major Butler's rank, using the nomenclature of the time, was 'Major and Colonel'.  It was a bizarre system and was finally abolished between the two world wars.

 

Brigadier-General the Honourable Lesley James Probyn Butler was an officer of the Irish Guards.  He was born on 22 April 1876, the son of the 26th Baron Dunboyne. He served in South Africa from 1899 to 1900, for which he was awarded the Queen's medal with four clasps, and in the European War from 1914 to 1918, being mentioned in despatches six times and receiving the brevet rank of lieutenant-colonel, the DSO in 1916 and the CMG in 1917. He retired from the Army in 1922.  Butler was married in 1907 to Mary Christal, youngest daughter of Sir John Heathcoat-Amory, 1st Baronet; they had one son and two daughters. She died in 1951. He lived at Calverleigh Cottage, Tiverton, Devon, and was a deputy lieutenant for the county. He died on 31 December 1955.  He is further referred to here:  

 

 

Edited 9 April , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Old Owl]

Excellent work!!

 

Although I am not 100% certain just yet, I believe that the officer seated 2nd from the right is Major Edward Henry Edwin Daniell, DSO, who was killed in action at Le Pilly on 20/10/14.

He appears to wear the ribbon of the DSO/QSA/KSA--he was awarded the DSO during the Boer War.

 

Robert

[FROGSMILE]

4 hours ago, Old Owl said:

Excellent work!!

 

Although I am not 100% certain just yet, I believe that the officer seated 2nd from the right is Major Edward Henry Edwin Daniell, DSO, who was killed in action at Le Pilly on 20/10/14.

He appears to wear the ribbon of the DSO/QSA/KSA--he was awarded the DSO during the Boer War.

 

Robert

 

Great work Robert, here is a photo of the second battalion a short time before the war, courtesy of a fellow forum member.  Although it was published in January 1915, it was clearly taken previously given the battalions deployment to the seat of war.  Hopefully it will help with naming the officers in subject photo.

 

Note that the QM has at least three medal ribbons while even his CO has just one.  This was not particularly unusual.  Captain Gordon must be the Adjutant and Major Galwey the 2IC.  This is not a particularly experienced battalion, reflecting that it had been on the 'home' establishment for some time.

 

Edited 9 April , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Old Owl]

12 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

Great work Robert, here is a photo of the second battalion a short time before the war, courtesy of a fellow forum member.  Although it was publsihed in January 1915, it was clearly taken previously given the battalions deployment to the seat of war.  Hopefully it will help with naming the officers in subject photo.

 

Note that the QM has at least three medal ribbons while even his CO has just one.  This was not particularly unusual.  Captain Gordon must be the Adjutant and Major Galwey the 2IC.  This is not a particularly experienced battalion, reflecting that it had been on the 'home' establishment for some time.

 

 

I am pretty sure that this photo was taken circa 1908--only one officer Lieut MCC Harrison appears on the list of those who embarked for France in August, 1914.

 

A great shame as it may have helped to identify a few more faces--now need to see if I can pick out Harrison in the original group!

[depaor01]

3 hours ago, Old Owl said:

I have identified one officer: Lt.Col. St John Augustus Cox... I have identified him from the publication 'Our Heroes'

 

Here he is. Our Heroes online. One of my Centenary projects 

 

https://ourheroes.southdublin.ie/Serviceman/Show/16113

 

Dave

1 hour ago, mrfrank said:

...and there are images of both Major Butler and Gen Doran on Page 55 of ‘Our Heroes’ 

 

Butler:

 

https://ourheroes.southdublin.ie/Serviceman/Show/16119

 

Dave

[depaor01]

...and Doran

 

https://ourheroes.southdublin.ie/Serviceman/Show/16115

[museumtom]

13 minutes ago, depaor01 said:

 

Here he is. Our Heroes online. One of my Centenary projects 

 

https://ourheroes.southdublin.ie/Serviceman/Show/16113

 

Dave

 

Butler:

 

https://ourheroes.southdublin.ie/Serviceman/Show/16119

 

Dave

And most excellent it is too!! I use it all the time.

[depaor01]

14 minutes ago, museumtom said:

And most excellent it is too!! I use it all the time.

Thanks Tom! 

[arantxa]

ive tried to get the photo a bit clearer..its so interesting all the info thanks..its been on my wall for a long time and only with all this spare time did i think to ask you guys  im always so impressed with the knowledge on here  Thanks

[Old Owl]

 

Hi Arantxa,

 

The officer standing far right second row down must be Major Henry William Long, RAMC (att'd 2nd Bn) because he wears the RAMC cap badge and collars.

 

Still struggling to identify any others though.  I don't suppose that there are any names on the back? or is the frame sealed?

 

Best,  Robert

[mrfrank]

Officer to the right as we look of the Lt Col is likely the 2 i/c Maj SE St LEGER. There’s an on-line younger image for him. 

[mrfrank]

[Deleted duplicate post]

Edited 10 April , 2020 by mrfrank

[mrfrank]

Officer 3rd row up, 3rd in from left (standing to the left of Capt MELLOR as we look) is a reasonable match for Capt Ion Barry GEORGE. 

[joe19612]

Bit surprised no Chaplain in the picture being Irish battalion. 

 

 

Joe

[FROGSMILE]

On 10/04/2020 at 14:31, joe19612 said:

Bit surprised no Chaplain in the picture being Irish battalion. 

 

 

Joe

 

I'm not sure that they were on peacetime home establishments pre-WW1.  Generally each permanent barracks had a church that it used.

Edited 31 May , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[mrfrank]

A photo of Archdale Maurice Stratford TANDY to centre as part of B Company, RMC, Sandhurst in July 1910. Possible match for Lt in front row 2nd from right. 

Edited 13 April , 2020 by mrfrank

[mrfrank]

Image of Albert Edward Brunker ANDERSON lifted from group photo of A Company, RMC, Sept 1910. Good match for the chap in the photo to the centre of the 3rd row. 

[mrfrank]

Image of John Denys SHINE centre, standing. Lifted from photo of RMC football XI of 1912. Best guess would be possibly front row, 1st right.

Edited 13 April , 2020 by mrfrank

[scall38]

 Great picture. Sitting on the ground third from Left is I think 2/Lt C B Gibbons. 

[scall38]

The three majors  Major St Leger , Major Painter-Downes and Major Daniell. 

[arantxa]

Hi thats so clever of you thank you

[Ali Michele]

What a fabulous thread this is....I’ve just found it by accident and already learned so much, thank you to all you knowledgeable people.  My great grandad, Patrick Bennett 9726 was a machine gun sergeant during the Great War and was 2nd Battalion Royal Irish Regiment.  He must be in the brilliant photo at the beginning of this thread.  He was killed 15th April 1915 aged 24 near Ploegsteert Wood.

 

im trying to research his life......does anyone know if Raglan Barracks (I know it’s been demolished now) had married quarters at that time?  I was wondering where his wife was and if she was living with him there.
 

many thanks to All 

[FROGSMILE]

51 minutes ago, Ali Michele said:

What a fabulous thread this is....I’ve just found it by accident and already learned so much, thank you to all you knowledgeable people.  My great grandad, Patrick Bennett 9726 was a machine gun sergeant during the Great War and was 2nd Battalion Royal Irish Regiment.  He must be in the brilliant photo at the beginning of this thread.  He was killed 15th April 1915 aged 24 near Ploegsteert Wood.

 

im trying to research his life......does anyone know if Raglan Barracks (I know it’s been demolished now) had married quarters at that time?  I was wondering where his wife was and if she was living with him there.
 

many thanks to All 

 

Hello Ali.  Yes regular army barracks did have married quarters, but not enough for every married soldier.  A soldier first of all had to get permission to marry from his commanding officer.  This was not legal permission to marry, but permission to live out of barracks and also permission to be considered eligible for an army married quarter (MQ).  If permission was granted (the prospective wife was expected to be morally upright) then the wife would be officially taken "on-the-strength".  This meant that not only would she be eligible for a MQ if there was one available, but she was also entitled to rations from army funds when overseas.  A half man's ration was allocated to the wife and a quarter ration for any children born from the marriage.

 

Only ranks below officer were entitled to married quarters at public expense and preference was given to senior non-commissioned officers and men with long service.  The married quarters for Raglan Barracks were on part of the old George Square.  A married sergeant was allowed two rooms and a married private one room.  The kitchens and wash-houses were communal.

Edited 2 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Ali Michele]

Thank you so much for explaining that, Frogsmile.  My next mission is to find out if she was living there with him.....bit of a family mystery going on.  Do you know if any records still exist from that time?  And if so, where they might have gone when the Barracks were demolished?

 

thank you so much again for helping me