JulianR Posted 28 November , 2018 Share Posted 28 November , 2018 Medal Roll has him as Labour Corps ex Sherwoods https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5119/41629_636897_11174-00055?pid=4452764&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D5119%26h%3D4452764%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DPzZ3732%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=PzZ3732&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianR Posted 28 November , 2018 Share Posted 28 November , 2018 Silver War Badge, https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2456/wo329_3055-00400?pid=292304&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D2456%26h%3D292304%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DPzZ3734%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=PzZ3734&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true He had joined up in 1904 and was discharged due to wounds in 1919 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 28 November , 2018 Share Posted 28 November , 2018 I also spotted in the diary later in 1918; Sgt. William Russon #12276 Honours & Awards. Sgt. O. Clarke #5810 Honours & Awards. Plus Leivers Honours & Awards. Then from 1916 list of men in the Corps of Drums formed Feb 1915. 5552 Sgt. T Ennis (Might say Sgt. Dm?) 6555 Sgt. H. Perrins 9856 Sgt. J. Shipman 5442 CQMS C. Carbury. 5847 Sgt. James Fray 20350 L/Sgt. George W Shepard Then another Roll of Drums dated 15/6/1916 6794 CQMS G Orange 6949 Sgt. F Piper Ennis, Fray, Shipman & Shepard repeated on this list Anyone know how many Sgts. in a Btn.? TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 28 November , 2018 Share Posted 28 November , 2018 Leivers 1st Bn MM published 16 July 1918, But why him and not one of the (don't know the answer to TEW's question) many senior ranks in 1st Bn?? MaxD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suesalter1 Posted 28 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 28 November , 2018 Just going on the first initial - A. Baby was named Andre. but could be named after anyone. A think a DNA test is the only answer. I shall suggest it in my next email to Annie. Sue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianR Posted 28 November , 2018 Share Posted 28 November , 2018 The LLT gives about 41 Sgts, let alone CQMS etc per infantry Bn. 8 per Coy and 9 in HQ, Would a DNA test on one side of the family prove anything, surely you would need a male and female descendant? As Leivers received the MM is there any thing in the local papers especially with a photo? Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 28 November , 2018 Share Posted 28 November , 2018 My knowledge of DNA is limited to what I have gleaned from the telly so this question is from an almost non-existent knowledge base.. If one is using a DNA test to prove/disprove parentage, don't you need another testee to compare the results with or am I missing the point completely? If using it solely to determine ethnicity how can that help? Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 28 November , 2018 Share Posted 28 November , 2018 I think Ancestry DNA kits can find 3rd Cousins but not siblings! Grandfathers? not so sure about. I think CQMS have a crown over the stripes. Like this man, of course our man may have lost his appointment as CQMS by 1918 assuming he ever was one. I'd also say that someone has to read the whole dairy carefully, I just scanned through it. Sgts may have moved through the battalion, replaced, gained commissions, died, wounded, demoted, gone on leave etc. That's 4 diaries at £3.50 each or a lot of ancestry use. I still want to go through other Sherwoods diaries just to double check. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 28 November , 2018 Share Posted 28 November , 2018 I know this makes me sound a right Eeyore but what would one be looking for? Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianR Posted 28 November , 2018 Share Posted 28 November , 2018 The Medal Rolls have him as CSM, not CQMS, so the picture was taken before he was promoted CSM, or his rank badge would be on the bottom of his sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 28 November , 2018 Share Posted 28 November , 2018 How you have been able to ID the photo as Leivers??? Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTracer44 Posted 28 November , 2018 Share Posted 28 November , 2018 Of Course Andre could be the woman’s grandfather, which was one of the old ways of naming. Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 29 November , 2018 Share Posted 29 November , 2018 Hi Sue and all, Why has Alfred Bruce Leivers been put in the frame? Born Dec 1885 died June1951, Nottingham. No one in his family tree was named Andrew. His 2 sons were Henry Bruce and John William P. How about these as contenders:- Sgt. Andrew Smith 8838. 2nd Notts and Derby. Andrew Harwood WO2 4331. Notts and Derby Andrew Wise A/WO2. 3035/265792. Notts and Derby. Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suesalter1 Posted 29 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 29 November , 2018 Hi Barry, Only latched on to him as we've established that the 1st Battalion were in the right place, right time. Not even sure his name was Andrew. Only thinking that was the case as son's name was Andre. Clutching at straws really, as I have no real clue as to the identity of the soldier. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suesalter1 Posted 29 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 29 November , 2018 I've found a relative of Alfred Bruce Leivers! He's a Forum member and Leivers was his great-uncle. Probably come to nothing, but I need to check even if to eliminate him from the search. Wish me luck! Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 29 November , 2018 Share Posted 29 November , 2018 Hi Sue and all, Waiving my magic wand!. As previously posted, can anyone add a bit more on these three...... How about these as contenders:- Sgt. Andrew Smith 8838. 2nd Notts and Derby. Andrew Harwood WO2 4331. Notts and Derby Andrew Wise A/WO2. 3035/265792. Notts and Derby. Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 29 November , 2018 Share Posted 29 November , 2018 Did they have service with 1st. battalion? TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 30 November , 2018 Share Posted 30 November , 2018 On 28/11/2018 at 17:48, MaxD said: If one is using a DNA test to prove/disprove parentage, don't you need another testee to compare the results with or am I missing the point completely? If using it solely to determine ethnicity how can that help? I have done a lot of work with DNA and you are correct. The result needs to have some sort of match with someone in UK who has just happened to have done the test The example that I come across commonly is Americans who are trying to find where their ancestors came from in Ireland. They do the test, but can rarely establish what they were trying to determine. The reason is that people in Ireland do not do DNA tests, because they already know where they come from and do not need a DNA test to prove it In the case of the WW1 child here, then you would only find out anything if the British descendants had done a DNA test. (The alternative is tracking down descendants of Sgt X and getting them to do a test) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 30 November , 2018 Share Posted 30 November , 2018 12 hours ago, TEW said: Did they have service with 1st. battalion? TEW Hi Tew 1/7th. Just checked Andrew Wise, 265792. Pension records on Ancestry. Lots of dates on medical records, looks like he was in England Feb/Mar 1918 convalescing from a GSW Rt.Chest...so....not him. Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTracer44 Posted 30 November , 2018 Share Posted 30 November , 2018 How good are the Belgium’s on there local history, would the Museum at Poperinghe be wise about where there old local Brickworks were as this could give a location for the farm. Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 30 November , 2018 Share Posted 30 November , 2018 (edited) A bit in a hurry, sorry. What farm is meant please ? (Previous posting) Aurel (one of the Belgium's - Sorry, couldn't resist. :-) Off now. In a hurry.) P.S. Added 3 minutes later. I did find "Schaballie" on page 1. Which reminded me of the hamlet Schaapbalie. Which is not near Poperinge though. But I see someone thought of Schaapbalie too (page 1.) And now I really have to go.) Edited 30 November , 2018 by Aurel Sercu P.S. added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 30 November , 2018 Share Posted 30 November , 2018 Barry, At present it looks as if only the 1st Bn were in the area in the right time frame. That may change! As Julian has pointed out there are roughly 41 Sgts in a Battalion. If we start looking at all Sherwood units in France at the time that's going to be 720 Sgts. rather than 41 to hunt through. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suesalter1 Posted 30 November , 2018 Author Share Posted 30 November , 2018 Well, so far I've heard nothing from Alfred Leiver's great-nephew. Mind you, the forum member hasn't posted anything since 2011. so obviously not active on the list. As Leivers was a Military Medal recipient, I am looking at old newspapers to see if there's a photo in the local press. Also tracking the family on Ancestry. What we need is the name of every sergeant in the 1st Battalion who was alive at the time of conception! That could take some time, although I think we've now established that the 1st Battalion were the only ones in the area at the time. Why did I start this, I ask myself? Then again, I do like a mystery! Sue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 1 December , 2018 Share Posted 1 December , 2018 (edited) Hi Sue, Sent you a PM re Ancestry trees. You never know, it has paid off in the past. Regards Barry Edited 1 December , 2018 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 1 December , 2018 Share Posted 1 December , 2018 (edited) Hi Tew and all, ACCORDING TO ANCESTRY MIC RECORDS !! I came up with the 3 mentioned in post 66 after searching "Andrew ? , Notts and Derby" in the MICs. This gave me 67 with the first Christian name of Andrew and one with "Andie". I then trawled through them looking for the Sjts. I missed one Serjeant out Andrew Smith Garrett although he was with the 12th. There are another 6 men with a middle name Andrew, not checked yet. It's a very long shot but if our man was called Andrew from the Notts and Derby then hopefully he will be one of these. Just which Battalion? Regards Barry Edited 1 December , 2018 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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