New research challenge

[suesalter1]

This is probably going to be a lost cause, but I am trying to trace a man without a name!

 

To explain, when we were staying in Ypres in October, we had a wonderful 2 bedroom apartment right in the heart of town and owned by a lovely Belgium couple, Annie and Roger. Annie told us about her search to find her grandfather, an English soldier serving in the Sherwood Foresters. She has tried many lines of research, but nothing yet, so i offered to help her. It's probably best if I relay her story as she informed me.

 

'Hello,

 

Let us tell you  a lovely story with a special request.

 

During the First World War, an 18-year-old refugee girl with her family in the Belgian town Poperinge (back of the front Ypres Salient) meets a British soldier  of a regiment stationed in the area.

it must have been at the end of 1917, early 1918. He quickly became her charming prince as can be seen in the photograph taken with 5 of her girlfriends and another soldier.

 

[photo grand-père et grand-mère Annie]

 

On 11th of November 1918, was born a baby who was declared under the name of his mom and called André (Andrew in english).

 

What happened ? The regiment had gone to another place? Did the dad die in a fight or did he only know he was? Was it a quick falling in love? Mom and family never talked about it. Only an uncle testified that he saw the baby come out of the barn where he was born, wrapped in towels, before he went back to the farm house where the family lived (Schaballie Farm Poperinge).

 

Later on the mother married a farmer, also a refugee in Poperinge at the same place. She gave him three children and the latter adopted the "english" child she had given birth during the war.

 

Twenty years later, the disease takes hold of André's mother. Some time before dying, she gives her son, born in November 1918, a photograph on which she is with André's biological father without giving any explanation.

 

In the early 1980's, André meets an Australian writer, John Laffin, and tells him his story. The latter, discovered in the photograph that André's father was a sergeant of the 10th Notts (Service) Battalion and Derbys. Regiment (Sherwood Foresters) in the 51st Infantry Brigade of the 17th Division of the Northern Army (North).

 

The story would stop there, but Annie, the daughter of André and the granddaughter of this english soldier recently began new researches at the Imperial War Museum  in London, at the National Archives in Kew Garden , in Nottingham, first, at the Castle Museum, then to the Chetwynd barracks in Chilwell, where her grandfather's regiment was based.

 

At the barracks, in parallel with the photographic researches undertaken, the following advice was given: to publish the photograph of Annie's grandfather in the local newspapers to perhaps reach a person who would know this man and give us his name (or even other elements) in order to speed up and conclude the researches.

 

We have brought some soil from the Chetwynd barracks to put it on the grave of Annie's father who would have hundred years on 11th of November 2018.

But, we still hope to find more informations concerning this English soldier at least a name or tracks to find him.

 

That is why we address you to publish his photo in your local newspaper .

 

[close-up Annie's grandad]

 

We are looking forward to know if you can accede to our request. We cross fingers !!!

 

In advance, we thank you for your contribution.

 

With our best regards,

 

Roger & Annie'

 

I have attached to the 2 photos as described (the second a close-up shot).  I don't know how John Laffin ascertained he served in the 10th Battalion, but I bow to his superior knowledge. As I saw, this is very much a long shot, but I would love to help Annie with her search. They were so welcoming and helpful, so any assistance with my next step would be great. I have checked the war diary for the 10th Battalion as to where they were based at the time, but it hasn't been much help.

 

Much appreciated,

Sue.

[MaxD]

Only a little piece but the battalion were within 5 miles of Poperinge in the latter part of 1917 and at one stage at rest in camp just to the south of the town.  In January 1918 they moved well away to the south to the Bapaume area so the general outline seems to stack up as possibly a 10 Bn man.  If the baby was his, presumably he went back in Feb/March?  The Bn were still well away at that time.

 

Max

   

[Mark1959]

Does his cap badge look like a SF? Does not to me. The SF is a Cross which that I think is not - even allowing for blur

Edited 30 October , 2018 by Mark1959

[suesalter1]

Must admit the cap badge does not look quite right. Maybe I should post the close up photo on a different thread and see if anyone can identify it?

 

Sue.

[Mark1959]

Good idea. Was he named Andre / Andrew after his biological father did they say?

[suesalter1]

I thought he might be named the father too. I'll post the photo on the other thread and see what folks can come up with.

 

Thanks,

Sue.

[Keith Brannen]

It seems to look like it to me (or at least has a similar structure at the "points" especially on the left hand side,too many flaws/lighting issues on right side):

 

[MaxD]

I was relatively happy with his cap badge as being bashed about a bit and blurred.  His shoulder titles look about the right shape and size.

 

Max

 

PS  My earlier post source was the war diary.

[Neil 2242]

Cap badge looks a reasonable match to me (just my humble opinion).

 

As somewhere to start, if you were to go with (a) 10th Sherwood Foresters, (b) a sergeant in early 1918, and (c) possibly called Andrew...can you come up with any candidates?

[ss002d6252]

SDGW has a number of men called Andrew who were killed with the Sherwood's in 1918 but none were Serjeants.

 

Craig

[suesalter1]

He may have survived the war - which makes him harder to find! 

 

Sue.

 

[Mark1959]

Ok let us go on the assumption he is SF. Keith and Max are persuasive.

So can we exclude all othe SF battalions bar 10th as being in the area at the correct time. If so we then need to find a Sgt and a photo. Piece of cake!!

[suesalter1]

Ha Ha. I wish!

 

Sue

[BillyH]

The soldier looks as though his hair is grey, and he looks at least 30 to me?

Probably had a wife in England.

 

BillyH.

[IPT]

Bily, I was thinking they were a pair of dirty old men, but was too polite to post it.

[Gardenerbill]

What's the strap going across his chest? 

[BillyH]

At the risk of being done for defamation (yet again) I submit the following for consideration :

20810 Sgt Andrew Allen of the 10th Bn. Sherwood Foresters (no service papers I don't think) 

 

Deleted. The Inspector's post  #19 rules this man out!

 

BillyH.

 

Edited 31 October , 2018 by BillyH

[IPT]

If he is indeed named Andrew, then we're in luck as there are only a very small number of suitable men.  However, i'm pretty dubious on that point as the original correspondent doesn't say that at all, only that the child was given his mother's surname and that the English version of Andre is Andrew.

[The Inspector]

1 hour ago, BillyH said:

At the risk of being done for defamation (yet again) I submit the following for consideration :

20810 Sgt Andrew Allen of the 10th Bn. Sherwood Foresters (no service papers I don't think) 

 

BillyH.

 

Sgt. Andrew Allen 20810 was K in A on 12th Oct, 1917.SDGW..... So.......It can't be him.. the baby was born on 11th November, 1918.

Whoever the Sgt was he must have been present in February 1918, give or take a week or so. Presuming the baby was full term. 

Regards Barry

Edited 30 October , 2018 by The Inspector

[JulianR]

Note the strap across his chest has been fixed under his epaulette, as if he was carrying something valuable and did not want to lose it.

[MaxD]

I note that this plea plus photo was put in the Derby Telegraph in August with presumably no results?

 

Suesalter1 - worth checking with the features writer there -  one Jane Goddard?

 

Edit - as your visit was in October it would seem the Derby Telegraph plea fell on stony ground.

Max

Edited 31 October , 2018 by MaxD
see above

[TEW]

Sorry, I'm not clear on certain aspects of the story. I checked an online gestation/conception calender that gives 266-280 days as the norm, that makes conception between 4/2/18 and 18/2/18.

Do we think conception took place in Poperinghe?

Where is Schaballie Farm?

Was the Barn at Schaballie Farm?

 

I've had a look at some Sherwood's diaries for around 4/2/18 and 18/2/18 and the 10th Bn had long been out of the area (Dec 1917) of Pop. They were in fact way down SW of Cambrai.

 

1st Bn. Were SW of Pop and during the time frame moved towards Ypres.

15th Bn. Diary is missing for Feb 1918 but in Jan they were near Langemarck and moved later to St Julien.

 

Always possible a Sgt. of 10/Sherwoods went AWOL and returned to the POP area for a liason in early Feb but with 2 other Sherwoods units also in the area thap opens things up a bit.

TEW

[JulianR]

Google earth only gives two Schaballie's.  One is about 4km west of Roeselare and the other at De Hann.  Having tried Googling Schaballie it seems to be a reasonably common surname in northern France and Flanders, did the OP mean that it was the farm of the Schaballie's that the child was born at?

 

Julian

[MaxD]

I seem to remember identifying Schaap Balie for someone on another thread.  It identifies as a region with a number of farms.  It can be found on sheet 20 SE in V 2 c.  It is the right area, the attached map is from 51 Bde Dec 1917.

 

I was about to post something along the lines that TEW has taken regarding to dates and gestation periods!   10 Bn were long gone in Feb/March as I observed before.

 

Max

Edited 31 October , 2018 by MaxD
map added

[MaxD]

Additional map from the RFA support to 51 Bde.

 

Max