navydoc16 Posted 22 April Share Posted 22 April (edited) 1 hour ago, DisasterDog said: I have no idea, as I have never seen one. I have seen people reference them, but I believe they are confusing Iraqi for Egyptian by simply lumping “Arabic” together. The only thing I can think of that would positively identify a P1907 as Egyptian might be the Egyptian Police marking, often found on Citadel Martini-Enfields & Greener EG shotguns. There is plenty of photographic evidence of the Gaffirs with ShtLEs. Ahhhh- I get the jist. Thanks so much mate- appreciate the pics. I will keep a look out and see if anything fun turns up. You never know what is around the corner haha what is the interest in them for yourself? kind regards g Edited 22 April by navydoc16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisasterDog Posted 22 April Share Posted 22 April 11 hours ago, navydoc16 said: what is the interest in them for yourself? Just kinda found myself here. After acquiring the above examples & researching them, then discovering plenty of photos of SMLEs, I thought it odd that we don’t see Egyptian-marked Enfields or associated bayonets. So I kinda jump on any reference to Egyptian P1907s. I wanna see one!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 23 April Share Posted 23 April (edited) On 22/04/2024 at 14:35, DisasterDog said: I have no idea, as I have never seen one. I have seen people reference them, but I believe they are confusing Iraqi for Egyptian by simply lumping “Arabic” together. The only thing I can think of that would positively identify a P1907 as Egyptian might be the Egyptian Police marking, often found on Citadel Martini-Enfields & Greener EG shotguns. There is plenty of photographic evidence of the Gaffirs with ShtLEs. I have gone spoken to a couple dealers cap (and cash) in hand and have tried to aquire a Egyptian marked one- have purchased this morning one that is supposed to have a “Arabic proof” so I guess I’ll have that one as well yo trundle through kind regards g Edited 24 April by navydoc16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 24 April Share Posted 24 April @shippingsteel one more for your eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 25 April Share Posted 25 April (edited) 4 hours ago, navydoc16 said: @shippingsteel one more for your eyes Already got this one listed ... both side tangs are noted in my tables above. Interesting that both markings share the common Number 63 and 4th Tolai (Company) inscription. Also has that Sh leading letter which I believe could well stand for Shebirghān. Further research suggests it was historically a Garrison city guarding the North-Western border so seems like a good match. Cheers, SS Edited 25 April by shippingsteel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 25 April Share Posted 25 April Apologies, I got it off another old gun boards, kind regards g 2 minutes ago, shippingsteel said: Already got this one listed ... both side tangs are noted in my tables above. Interesting that both markings share the common Number 63 and 4th Tolai (Company) inscription. Cheers, SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 25 April Share Posted 25 April @shippingsteel I have a less fun challenge, I just realised I have either 3 or 4 No4 Arabic marked bayonets somewhere in my collection. when I get home I’m going to dig them out, see if we can make something of it. Maybe it will shed light on something to do with our current topic if they are Afghan. kind regards g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 26 April Share Posted 26 April (edited) I found 2, I think I know where the other two are but they’re a bit hard to get to. maybe you can assist with the translation - there are “hard” bayonet translations; then there is Arabic electropencil “hard” kind regards g Edited 26 April by navydoc16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 26 April Share Posted 26 April I am thinking these are most likely Iraq marked possibly from the Anglo-Iraq War period. Numerals are certainly Eastern Arabic so NOT relating to Afghanistan at all. Cheers, SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 26 April Share Posted 26 April 8 minutes ago, shippingsteel said: I am thinking these are most likely Iraq marked possibly from the Anglo-Iraq War period. Numerals are certainly Eastern Arabic so NOT relating to Afghanistan at all. Cheers, SS Thanks mate appreciated, I will catalogue them as such. They come by way of a returned serviceman, unfortunately the dealer I bought them from didn’t care enough to get specifics - which is always a massive shame. I won’t bother posting the other 2, appreciate the assistance once again kind regards g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 2 May Share Posted 2 May @shippingsteel I got two “arabic” 1907s I just purchased just arrived. Wilkinson Pall Mall 10-1917 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 2 May Share Posted 2 May (edited) EFD 3-1915 @DisasterDog that “Arabic proof” I think is just a half a “reissue” what do you think? kind regards g Edited 2 May by navydoc16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisasterDog Posted 3 May Share Posted 3 May On 02/05/2024 at 02:02, navydoc16 said: Wilkinson Pall Mall 10-1917 Guessing Iraqi as one of the characters is the same as the “jeem” (one of the versions of it, at least). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 5 May Share Posted 5 May @shippingsteel new fresh from the fleabay kind regards g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 5 May Share Posted 5 May That's another nice clearly marked example. Also shows the alternate marking system on opposite tangs of the same bayonet. Will do the translation when I get back next week. Cheers, SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 5 May Share Posted 5 May 35 minutes ago, shippingsteel said: That's another nice clearly marked example. Also shows the alternate marking system on opposite tangs of the same bayonet. Will do the translation when I get back next week. Cheers, SS I believe they are all marked above and below the tang, at least mine and the last three on eBay are kind regards g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 5 May Share Posted 5 May (edited) So this is the long ‘88 Afghan, we are more familiar with Edited 5 May by navydoc16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 5 May Share Posted 5 May No.1 No.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 5 May Share Posted 5 May No.3 No.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 7 May Share Posted 7 May Also @shippingsteeljust found this guy hiding on another forum kind regards g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 9 May Share Posted 9 May (edited) So it seems the British Gov, was actually seriously concerned pre war regarding the amount of arms trade, including SMLE and Martini’s, wondering if any of these towns as a prefix abbreviation - match the type on the bayonets- As I’m guessing the British stationed troops in these regions as well, and may have possibly assisted procurement of arms to equip the Afghan soldiers of note- specifically, Australia and New Zealand got reprimanded several times both pre- and post ww1 and told to please stop selling all our gear to “India” where it was promptly distributed to the Middle East. kind regards g Edited 9 May by navydoc16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattr82 Posted 9 May Share Posted 9 May I have read through those reports before and they were very interesting. The subsequent responses to that report from Australia were quite blunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 9 May Share Posted 9 May 3 hours ago, Mattr82 said: I have read through those reports before and they were very interesting. The subsequent responses to that report from Australia were quite blunt. The response to 1908 or 1917? kind regards g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattr82 Posted 9 May Share Posted 9 May 46 minutes ago, navydoc16 said: The response to 1908 or 1917? kind regards g The 1908 document. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navydoc16 Posted 10 May Share Posted 10 May @shippingsteel there is some nomenclature change between what we think about words like "headquarters" here is the very early 1920's British review of the Muscat infantry, which should mirror Afghanistan as the document refers to the copying of the infantry standard of Muscat to implement in Bahrain. What is fascinating is that India seems to be the powerhouse of British control in the region, and twice I have now read that Indian Officers that spoke arabic, likely from the "Punjab" and now Pakistan regions would be used to assist in training. @Mattr82 where did you read the response to the 1908 document? it is not in the UAE or Qatar archives, we have put in a official request from the Australian Archives and they have come back with a non-response. What was the search criteria you used? we need it for some other pre-war research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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