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P.1903 Bayonet w/ Arabic Script


JMB1943

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1 hour ago, DisasterDog said:

I have no idea, as I have never seen one.

 I have seen people reference them, but I believe they are confusing Iraqi for Egyptian by simply lumping “Arabic” together.  
 

The only thing I can think of that would positively identify a P1907 as Egyptian might be the Egyptian Police marking, often found on Citadel Martini-Enfields & Greener EG shotguns.  There is plenty of photographic evidence of the Gaffirs with ShtLEs.
 

 

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Ahhhh- I get the jist. Thanks so much mate- appreciate the pics. I will keep a look out and see if anything fun turns up. 
 

You never know what is around the corner haha

what is the interest in them for yourself? 

 

kind regards

g

Edited by navydoc16
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11 hours ago, navydoc16 said:

what is the interest in them for yourself? 

Just kinda found myself here. :blink:
 

After acquiring the above examples & researching them, then discovering plenty of photos of SMLEs, I thought it odd that we don’t see Egyptian-marked Enfields or associated bayonets.  So I kinda jump on any reference to Egyptian P1907s.  
 

I wanna see one!!! :w00t:

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On 22/04/2024 at 14:35, DisasterDog said:

I have no idea, as I have never seen one.

 I have seen people reference them, but I believe they are confusing Iraqi for Egyptian by simply lumping “Arabic” together.  
 

The only thing I can think of that would positively identify a P1907 as Egyptian might be the Egyptian Police marking, often found on Citadel Martini-Enfields & Greener EG shotguns.  There is plenty of photographic evidence of the Gaffirs with ShtLEs.
 

 

IMG_2971.png

IMG_1382.jpeg

I have gone spoken to a couple dealers cap (and cash) in hand and have tried to aquire a Egyptian marked one- have purchased this morning one that is supposed to have a “Arabic proof” so I guess I’ll have that one as well yo trundle through

kind regards

g

Edited by navydoc16
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4 hours ago, navydoc16 said:

@shippingsteel one more for your eyes 

Already got this one listed ... both side tangs are noted in my tables above. Interesting that both markings share the common Number 63 and 4th Tolai (Company) inscription.

Also has that Sh leading letter which I believe could well stand for Shebirghān. Further research suggests it was historically a Garrison city guarding the North-Western border so seems like a good match.

Cheers,  SS 

Edited by shippingsteel
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Apologies, I got it off another old gun boards,

kind regards 

g

2 minutes ago, shippingsteel said:

Already got this one listed ... both side tangs are noted in my tables above. Interesting that both markings share the common Number 63 and 4th Tolai (Company) inscription.

Cheers,  SS 

 

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@shippingsteel I have a less fun challenge, I just realised I have either 3 or 4 No4 Arabic marked bayonets somewhere in my collection. 
 

when I get home I’m going to dig them out, see if we can make something of it. Maybe it will shed light on something to do with our current topic if they are Afghan. 
 

kind regards

g

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I found 2, I think I know where the other two are but they’re a bit hard to get to. 
 

maybe you can assist with the translation -

there are “hard” bayonet translations; then there is Arabic electropencil “hard”

kind regards

g
 

 

 

 

 

4FBABDF7-15F8-4628-99F6-A578F5C05B9C.jpeg

8C63D64B-4B7D-46EB-806D-E6D5BB54016C.jpeg

Edited by navydoc16
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I am thinking these are most likely Iraq marked possibly from the Anglo-Iraq War period. Numerals are certainly Eastern Arabic so NOT relating to Afghanistan at all.

Cheers,  SS 

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8 minutes ago, shippingsteel said:

I am thinking these are most likely Iraq marked possibly from the Anglo-Iraq War period. Numerals are certainly Eastern Arabic so NOT relating to Afghanistan at all.

Cheers,  SS 

Thanks mate appreciated, I will catalogue them as such. They come by way of a returned serviceman, unfortunately the dealer I bought them from didn’t care enough to get specifics - which is always a massive shame. 

I won’t bother posting the other 2, appreciate the assistance once again 

kind regards

g

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@shippingsteel

I got two “arabic” 1907s I just purchased just arrived. 

Wilkinson Pall Mall 10-1917

E785507A-0ECC-4558-B3E7-37968D3EC081.jpeg

B8329B1B-DF2F-4E41-AA28-4C24BE6BA9BC.jpeg

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EFD 3-1915 

@DisasterDog that “Arabic proof” I think is just a half a “reissue” what do you think? 

kind regards

g

E859975C-9789-4FEB-B6BA-88ACB45DAE3F.jpeg

2A4D90C6-C267-4B73-8969-9FD96FA1ABD8.jpeg

Edited by navydoc16
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On 02/05/2024 at 02:02, navydoc16 said:

Wilkinson Pall Mall 10-1917

Guessing Iraqi as one of the characters is the same as the “jeem” (one of the versions of it, at least).

 

IMG_2989.jpeg

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That's another nice clearly marked example. Also shows the alternate marking system on opposite tangs of the same bayonet. Will do the translation when I get back next week.

Cheers,  SS 

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35 minutes ago, shippingsteel said:

That's another nice clearly marked example. Also shows the alternate marking system on opposite tangs of the same bayonet. Will do the translation when I get back next week.

Cheers,  SS 

I believe they are all marked above and below the tang, at least mine and the last three on eBay are 

kind regards

g

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So this is the long ‘88 Afghan, we are more familiar with 

A932048D-44DF-4793-9C7B-79F0BAC2894E.jpeg

 

FDB05AE4-9EFB-4F1D-836A-224FC9D3CB0E.jpeg

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Edited by navydoc16
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No.1

 

 

 

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No.2 

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D0BAF146-9399-4C67-A494-426697F9512F.jpeg

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No.3

480B56F4-E905-4B9B-8102-E422E21122CB.jpeg

C2F760C2-7C18-4514-9A61-5B7B0BEA1AFD.jpeg

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No.4

 

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BB62A974-ABF5-44EB-886D-07BCEE176DFA.jpeg

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So it seems the British Gov, was actually seriously concerned pre war regarding the amount of arms trade, including SMLE and Martini’s, wondering if any of these towns as a prefix abbreviation - match the type on the bayonets- As I’m guessing the British stationed troops in these regions as well, and may have possibly assisted procurement of arms to equip the Afghan soldiers
 

of note- specifically, Australia and New Zealand got reprimanded several times both pre- and post ww1 and told to please stop selling all our gear to “India” where it was promptly distributed to the Middle East. 
 

kind regards

g

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Edited by navydoc16
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I have read through those reports before and they were very interesting. 
 

The subsequent responses to that report from Australia were quite blunt. 

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3 hours ago, Mattr82 said:

I have read through those reports before and they were very interesting. 
 

The subsequent responses to that report from Australia were quite blunt. 

The response to 1908 or 1917?

kind regards

g

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46 minutes ago, navydoc16 said:

The response to 1908 or 1917?

kind regards

g

The 1908 document. 

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@shippingsteel there is some nomenclature change between what we think about words like "headquarters" here is the very early 1920's British review of the Muscat infantry, which should mirror Afghanistan as the document refers to the copying of the infantry standard of Muscat to implement in Bahrain. What is fascinating is that India seems to be the powerhouse of British control in the region, and twice I have now read that Indian Officers that spoke arabic, likely from the "Punjab" and now Pakistan regions would be used to assist in training. 

@Mattr82 where did you read the response to the 1908 document? it is not in the UAE or Qatar archives, we have put in a official request from the Australian Archives and they have come back with a non-response. What was the search criteria you used? we need it for some other pre-war research. 

image.png.6227c12ff79e9209bb2756004fff26c9.png

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