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RGJDEE

Wilkinson Bayonet

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RGJDEE

Just acquired  this p1907 Wilkinson bayonet

can any of you gentlemen offer any insights into the Stamps /marks.?

appears to be in good condition.BB8CE740-9BFF-4340-BD92-91DA3312F8C7.jpeg.64b1277cc0765ae1a0e6dbcdaf959fa4.jpegE9FEB38D-1833-45CF-8127-0EB3B7976E6A.jpeg.e5e5cf9f8e1afb95f7f46673982a9c62.jpegEE1A6987-AA50-4568-A2C3-1F034658B10A.jpeg.be02e50067af45314e5f011453e7338c.jpeg

605F986E-C6F9-4FDE-86AA-82E86A9AE035.jpeg

00C713AD-DA09-4297-AE06-E620D2D23ADC.jpeg

7770BA1F-822C-42D3-81BC-4ED6AE7851BA.jpeg

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JMB1943
Posted (edited)

All of the usual suspects are present.

Dated: 7? 17?

Re-inspected: ‘22, ‘24, ‘27

Viewers marks: crown/X6/E etc

Remains of Broad Arrow indicates British Govt. ownership 

Remains of X indicates the convex side of the bend test 

RE on the locket indicates manufacture of the locket (and possibly the whole scabbard) by the Remington Arms Co. USA

 

Regards,

JMB

 

Edited by JMB1943
Typos

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RGJDEE

Thankyou JMB

can you advise as to why the lack of any unit markings on the pommel ? It’s clearly been issued and inspected several times. Any ideas? 

Thanks R.

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JMB1943

RG,

 

You are asking the $64 thousand question, but I don’t have a high quality answer.

Bayonets were not unit-marked during the Great War, so that accounts for the first 2 yrs.

There must be many possible reasons—was the bayonet issued to a Home unit or an overseas station?

Was the CO keen on the markings? etc etc....

 

Regards,

JMB

 

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RGJDEE

I appreciate your answer . Could I enquire further of your greater knowledge ? 

Scabbard RE / Remington were they producing scabbards in the US or the metal parts ?

I also have a Wilkinson (Pall Mall) dated 1/17 if this one is 7/17 ( I think you are right with that date)

when did Wilkinson’s son stop the pall mall stamping ??

thanks and hope you can help.

R

 

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Dave66
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, JMB1943 said:

RG,

 

You are asking the $64 thousand question, but I don’t have a high quality answer.

Bayonets were not unit-marked during the Great War, so that accounts for the first 2 yrs.

There must be many possible reasons—was the bayonet issued to a Home unit or an overseas station?

Was the CO keen on the markings? etc etc....

 

Regards,

JMB

 

I often wondered if the old unit stamping we're polished out as part of the refurbishment/refinishing, prior to being re-issued at a later time....just a theory, as we see quite a few sterile ones in similar condition.

 

Dave.

Edited by Dave66

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RGJDEE

Thanks Dave 

I was well impressed by the condition of this one hence the purchase. Makes sense your theory , must have been un told numbers coming back into stores after the de-mobs of 1919.

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Dave66
2 minutes ago, RGJDEE said:

Thanks Dave 

I was well impressed by the condition of this one hence the purchase. Makes sense your theory , must have been un told numbers coming back into stores after the de-mobs of 1919.

Yes, it's a nice one, and a worthy addition...scabbards good also with the flush rivets.

I do have a Canadian one with an interwar refinish that has the feint traces of a unit stamping...the deepest remains of the stamps can still be seen but clearly polished out as opposed to roughly ground.

 

Dave.

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RGJDEE

Thanks. JMB was kind enough to explain the RE stamp on the scabbard (I had presumed it was a Regimental Stamp for the Royal Engineers) I had no idea that they were manufactured by Remington in the US. 

Do you have any thoughts on the Wilkinson / Wilkinson Pall Mall ?

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JMB1943
1 hour ago, RGJDEE said:

I appreciate your answer . Could I enquire further of your greater knowledge ? 

Scabbard RE / Remington were they producing scabbards in the US or the metal parts ?

I also have a Wilkinson (Pall Mall) dated 1/17 if this one is 7/17 ( I think you are right with that date)

when did Wilkinson’s son stop the pall mall stamping ??

thanks and hope you can help.

R

 

It started when I I first bought a 303 Lee Enfield Rifle (SMLE No. 1 Mk III*) in memory of my g’father who served in the Great War.

It was made by BSA in 1916, and it then needed a bayonet, so I looked for and found a 1916 Wilkinson.

Reading this forum regularly gave me insights, and then I bought “British & Commonwealth Bayonets “ by Skennerton & Richardson; this is essentially the Bible of collectors of British Bayonets.

Most of what I know and post on the forum is from these two sources.

So from Skennerton, yes Remington produced both.

As for the “Pall Mall”, that didn’t stop but actually started. Trajan and I have researched this, and find that until 5 16 only the WILKINSON stamp was used; in 5 16 the PALL MALL was added and continued throughout the war.

What is somewhat strange, is that the PALL MALL mark is nearly always lined out—why add, to then only attempt to delete it?

We were never able to understand that!

Enjoy your bayonet collecting, and NEVER be afraid to ask questions.

 

Regards,

JMB

 

 

 

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Dave66
31 minutes ago, RGJDEE said:

Thanks. JMB was kind enough to explain the RE stamp on the scabbard (I had presumed it was a Regimental Stamp for the Royal Engineers) I had no idea that they were manufactured by Remington in the US. 

Do you have any thoughts on the Wilkinson / Wilkinson Pall Mall ?

Can't add any more I'm afraid, I've learnt a huge amount from these chaps and the excellent threads on here, trouble is, you end up running out of space!?,

 

Dave.

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RGJDEE

Thankyou as ever have been very helpful 

I started the other way round Bayonet first (1/17 Wilkinson) which through this forum found out it was issued to 2nd Kashmir Rifles.

Then the rifle mk lll* made by Enfield 1916.(fortunately before all this nonsense of welding bolts came in)

Also to the memory of my Gfather.

guess the” bible “ will be the nxt purchase. As to space , fortunately my better half Never goes into the loft !

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Dave66
10 minutes ago, RGJDEE said:

Thankyou as ever have been very helpful 

I started the other way round Bayonet first (1/17 Wilkinson) which through this forum found out it was issued to 2nd Kashmir Rifles.

Then the rifle mk lll* made by Enfield 1916.(fortunately before all this nonsense of welding bolts came in)

Also to the memory of my Gfather.

guess the” bible “ will be the nxt purchase. As to space , fortunately my better half Never goes into the loft !

Bayonets only here, until the de-ac laws settle down a bit anyway, but never say never as at least two on the shopping list if suitable ones turn up....trouble is I can't resist the bayonets when I see them, need a pocket money raise I think!!

 

Dave.

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RGJDEE
Posted (edited)

Well 

I’ll never have the Harley or The Holiday home in The cote d azur .however ,if another bayonet comes along...................

R

Edited by RGJDEE

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Dave66
11 minutes ago, RGJDEE said:

Well 

I’ll never have the Harley or The Holiday home in The cote d azur .however ,if another bayonet comes along...................

R

Wait until you discover the p1888 bayonet, many Teritorial, artillery and service corps units had those, and personally I prefer them.

 

Dave.

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JMB1943

Dave,

 

I do have to agree with you about the P. 1888 bayonet, same weight as the P. 07 but a double-wide 12” blade instead of 17.5 “.

When you heft one in your hand, you really know that you have something substantial there, and the design is just beautiful.

RGJ, don’t say you weren’t warned.....

 

Regards,

 

JMB

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RGJDEE

Ok guys 

any suggestions on sources for these magnificent implements ?

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Dave66
1 hour ago, RGJDEE said:

Ok guys 

any suggestions on sources for these magnificent implements ?

They are fairly common, but getting harder to find locally for me, don't tend to buy too much online, but always keep an eye on this site here.....http://www.bayonetman.com/shop.php as has some good stuff.

A truly beautifully produced thing, where the 1907 is more utilitarian....4 standard variations, then all sorts of volunteer types etc....quite addictive!

 

Dave.

 

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JMB1943
7 hours ago, RGJDEE said:

Ok guys 

any suggestions on sources for these magnificent implements ?

 

Another source in the UK is:

www.gunstar.co.uk

They have some very nice pieces, but beyond my means!

 

Regards,

JMB

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Dave66
31 minutes ago, JMB1943 said:

 

Another source in the UK is:

www.gunstar.co.uk

They have some very nice pieces, but beyond my means!

 

Regards,

JMB

I have to agree with you, very expensive in some cases...considering my average spend is probably £70-90 at flea markets and occasionally the odd antique shop....the last one was rough, but had an early buff frog for £55 so they are out there.

 

All the best,

 

Dave.

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RGJDEE

Thanks Gents 

£55 sounds like a steal 

 

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RGJDEE

On inspection of the scabbard the following marks were discovered 

(see photos) broad arrow .

17 and letter W. Any ideas on the letter significance , I presume the 17 is a date stamp of production or acceptance ? But of course seek your knowledge gents .(started saving for the skennerton bible , but at £170 ....... )

regards R

A83BDF8C-06FF-4EA7-AE31-D091EFFA99EB.png

38C2A7C4-B509-4C54-AC36-0127CDB049EE.png

FB6C2543-611E-4E07-B93F-2CDDF99D934B.png

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Dave66
34 minutes ago, RGJDEE said:

On inspection of the scabbard the following marks were discovered 

(see photos) broad arrow .

17 and letter W. Any ideas on the letter significance , I presume the 17 is a date stamp of production or acceptance ? But of course seek your knowledge gents .(started saving for the skennerton bible , but at £170 ....... )

regards R

A83BDF8C-06FF-4EA7-AE31-D091EFFA99EB.png

38C2A7C4-B509-4C54-AC36-0127CDB049EE.png

FB6C2543-611E-4E07-B93F-2CDDF99D934B.png

The 17 would be original date of manufacture, and the W signifies it was Waxed during one of the post war refurbishments, this only came in after the early 1920's (23 I think).

those books can be quite pricey...Last one I saw was £110, so worth shopping around....Some other books around can be reasonable as a starter, but nowhere as detailed as that one.

Dave.

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RGJDEE

Seen one by RJ Wilkinson Latham

”British Bayonets 1700 to 1945”

have you heard of that one ?

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Dave66
28 minutes ago, RGJDEE said:

Seen one by RJ Wilkinson Latham

”British Bayonets 1700 to 1945”

have you heard of that one ?

heard of it but haven't got it...the one I use is "the bayonet", by Anthony Carter and John Walter, quite reasonable as a start as I only paid £7.50.

Im still looking for a reasonable skennerton, sure one will turn up.

Dave.

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