Dave66 Posted 11 July , 2018 Share Posted 11 July , 2018 1 hour ago, RGJDEE said: Thanks jmb how do you tell if the scabbard is lithgow /Aussie made ?? There's a very useful site I use, I bookmark it on the phone along with a couple of others just in case I come across something at a fair or shop that I'm unsure of, and has come in handy once or twice....worth studying before if you're after something specific. http://oldmilitarymarkings.com/brit_bayo.html Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 11 July , 2018 Share Posted 11 July , 2018 The other ones here, to determine if a battalion served overseas this serves as an excellent resource...it goes way back to the formation of the regiments, but a few frustratingly are listed but haven't been compiled yet. http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/british_regiment/main/reg_index.htm Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 12 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 12 July , 2018 Thanks for the link . And I guess earlier date the better ? I presume that they were made all through ww2. So are ww2examples less desirable ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 12 July , 2018 Share Posted 12 July , 2018 55 minutes ago, RGJDEE said: Thanks for the link . And I guess earlier date the better ? I presume that they were made all through ww2. So are ww2examples less desirable ?? Your welcome, I try and stick to the British stuff and only really buy locally but haven't come across one here. But if I happened to come across any ww1 era lithgow with the correct scabbard I'd bite the bullet And snap,it up...especially if it were unit marked and early with a possible Gallipoli connection....that would tick all my boxes! WW2 era....would depend on the condition, if unit marked and the price, but ultimately comes down your personal choice of where you want your collection to go. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 12 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 12 July , 2018 well Thankyou both for your thoughts . Am returning to purchase on sat and will post then also mr Wilkinson Latham’s book has arrrived and appears to be pretty comprehensive though I ve not had a proper look. Thanks again R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 12 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 12 July , 2018 RE Mr Wilkinson Latham’s book the book covers in detail all British military bayonets from1770 through to 1945 with numerous plates in black and white. An appendix covers inspection /acceptance/makers marks. Most informative but, consequently not a great deal on the p 1907. It is however a good point of reference and will be put to good use. Published in 1962. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 12 July , 2018 Share Posted 12 July , 2018 15 minutes ago, RGJDEE said: RE Mr Wilkinson Latham’s book the book covers in detail all British military bayonets from1770 through to 1945 with numerous plates in black and white. An appendix covers inspection /acceptance/makers marks. Most informative but, consequently not a great deal on the p 1907. It is however a good point of reference and will be put to good use. Published in 1962. These are always handy to have on the bookshelf for those dark winter nights. Theres a forum member called Michael Rose who has published some excellent books over in Australia, the latest is all about the P1907, haven't got it as having to watch the pennies unfortunately, but if you're starting out and want to continue with these, it may be worth enquiringly. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 14 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2018 Recent aqisitions as promised p1907 x 2 . Any idea of the unit markings on one pommel. ? also picked up this P 1913 Winchester. Would appreciate any comments thanks Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 14 July , 2018 Share Posted 14 July , 2018 Mr. D, 2 x P. ‘07 and a Winchester P. ‘13, which looks especially nice. On the pommel, T = Territorial and 5th Bn. IF ?? = Princess Victoria ‘s (Royal Irish Fusiliers). That IF is a tricky call. A good day’s work! Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 14 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2018 (edited) Thankyou jmb , The P13 was one of four rest all remington,the Winchester had a v poor scabbard (tape etc, no frog) seller happy to swap scabbards !! still a novice as far as values, paid £270 for the three ? youve better eyes than I, thought it was I E and was at a loss despite my new reference volume! Edited 14 July , 2018 by RGJDEE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 14 July , 2018 Share Posted 14 July , 2018 Well, the Regiment initials are not distinct and if it looks like IE to you it probably is. Some possibles, LF = Lancashire Fusiliers; I would suggest either white-chalking those markings or applying a coat of light oil and taking another photo. As for values, 270 Sterling = 460 $, which is about what prices would be in the US for the trio. Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 14 July , 2018 Share Posted 14 July , 2018 On 08/07/2018 at 13:31, RGJDEE said: Seen one by RJ Wilkinson Latham ”British Bayonets 1700 to 1945” have you heard of that one ? I was lucky to pick up a clean copy with dust jacket for £8 in an antiques centre last year. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 14 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2018 (edited) no dust jacket and another tenner more than your bargain ! trouble is , temptation to expand my original promise to collect WW1 Allies examples only. I envy Mr Wilkinson Latham’s collection ! Edited 14 July , 2018 by RGJDEE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 14 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2018 (edited) JMB I’ll give that a try and post again thanks again R Is the scabbard and frog on the P13 correct ? have seen some on the net in P1907 scabbards mine has different scabbard ( green. Also locket has metal fitting to attach to belt ?) Edited 14 July , 2018 by RGJDEE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 14 July , 2018 Share Posted 14 July , 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, RGJDEE said: no dust jacket and another tenner more than your bargain ! trouble is , temptation to expand my original promise to collect WW1 Allies examples only. I envy Mr Wilkinson Latham’s collection ! My copy (1967) was inscribed with the original owners name:- Anthony B. Buckley-Saxon, wonder who he? Mike. Edited 14 July , 2018 by MikeyH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 14 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2018 You ve got me there ? Another collector or collaborator maybe ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 14 July , 2018 Share Posted 14 July , 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, RGJDEE said: You ve got me there ? Another collector or collaborator maybe ? At the risk of straying away from the original subject matter, have found a maker of bespoke bicycles of that name in Castle Hedingham, closed in 2002. Mike. Edited 14 July , 2018 by MikeyH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 14 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2018 Possible arms /parts manufacturer or supplier ? Purely a guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 14 July , 2018 Share Posted 14 July , 2018 Mr D, Your WINCH was made, and stamped, as Patt. 1913 to fit onto the Patt. 1914 rifle for the British Army; it would have been issued with the standard P. 07 scabbard. The British view stamps have been lined through and bayo has been rebranded US for their service. Note date 9 ‘17, when US had just entered the war and had no War stocks of their own to speak of. The bayo became the US Model 1917, and the green scabbard/ frog (v. Nice pairing!) is then correct. I believe that the British Govt. sold the bayonet-making machinery to the US for $1. WILK & SAND were now churning out the P. 07 in huge numbers. Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 14 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2018 5 minutes ago, JMB1943 said: Mr D, Your WINCH was made, and stamped, as Patt. 1913 to fit onto the Patt. 1914 rifle for the British Army; it would have been issued with the standard P. 07 scabbard. The British view stamps have been lined through and bayo has been rebranded US for their service. Note date 9 ‘17, when US had just entered the war and had no War stocks of their own to speak of. The bayo became the US Model 1917, and the green scabbard/ frog (v. Nice pairing!) is then correct. I believe that the British Govt. sold the bayonet-making machinery to the US for $1. WILK & SAND were now churning out the P. 07 in huge numbers. Regards, JMB Fascinating and Thankyou again R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 14 July , 2018 Share Posted 14 July , 2018 One more thought for the day—are the locket & chape of the green scabbard marked ‘W’ or ‘RE’ ? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 14 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2018 30 minutes ago, JMB1943 said: One more thought for the day—are the locket & chape of the green scabbard marked ‘W’ or ‘RE’ ? Regards, JMB Will have a look and let you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 14 July , 2018 Share Posted 14 July , 2018 Richard, nice additions, can't add any more, but price seems reasonable at £90 each. As JMB said, can't quite make out the unit markings apart from it being a Teritorial battalion, which is a shame. Had the Lithgow gone? Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGJDEE Posted 14 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 July , 2018 Dave Hi, there were two lithgows 1 dated 2/20 with a efd scabbard 2nd one 1942 or 43with correct Aussie scabbard and matching date. Wasn’t sure which one was more desirable and was hoping to get your thoughts ( I did max the credit card!) The P13was in such good nick and being a rarer Winchester I was tempted then the seller offered to swap the scabbard and include the frog so It came home with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 14 July , 2018 Share Posted 14 July , 2018 16 minutes ago, RGJDEE said: Dave Hi, there were two lithgows 1 dated 2/20 with a efd scabbard 2nd one 1942 or 43with correct Aussie scabbard and matching date. Wasn’t sure which one was more desirable and was hoping to get your thoughts ( I did max the credit card!) The P13was in such good nick and being a rarer Winchester I was tempted then the seller offered to swap the scabbard and include the frog so It came home with me. It would have depended on price...but the ww2 with correct scabbard would have been my choice out of the two lithgow bayonets...but if I were to buy one lithgow, personally, I'd wait for a good Great War era piece with the correct scabbard. The Winchester is nice, and I'd have gone for that, makes a good combination with the scabbard and frog...always good to have something that spans both wars. Just got a really good book I can recommend....the lee Enfield story by skennerton, pricey, but worth putting on your wish list. Shows every rifle and all the variants, including all the correct bayonets and accessories. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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