The Prussian Posted 10 September , 2017 Share Posted 10 September , 2017 Youi´ll find The Mound in the north of the map Don showed before http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=50.8083&lon=2.8920&layers=101464684&b=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikereme Posted 10 September , 2017 Author Share Posted 10 September , 2017 The Prussion 37 minutes ago, The Prussian said: I agree too! Great work, Don! Now I´m waiting for the german regimebntal histoiry of RIR57. By the way, here the bataillons history is for sale: https://www.amazon.de/DIVISION-Divisional-Battalion-Highlanders-Ross-shire-ebook/dp/B019WRPQ5K/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1505055905&sr=8-2&keywords=9th+division+machine+gun#reader_B019WRPQ5K Great thank you....again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 11 September , 2017 Share Posted 11 September , 2017 Today I recieved the regimental histories of RIR39 and RIR57. Great books, but unfortunately no mentione of the enemy´ s units. Both regiments had contact with nenglish soldiers, RIR57 says, RIR 13 fought scottish men. No useful maps in the books... Now I wait for the history of RIR13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 11 September , 2017 Share Posted 11 September , 2017 I have checked RIR 13. According to them, RIR 57 was in support during the attack but certain elements were engaged. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 11 September , 2017 Share Posted 11 September , 2017 That´s right, Jan! The problem was, that the regiments were so close to each other, that a mix between some platoons from different regiment were possible. But when we check the map of RFA13, the Piccadilly farm (Baumhof) was close to 39 and 57. I don´t believe in 13. The 13th fought Scotts, but probably not the 9th bn. MGC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 13 September , 2017 Share Posted 13 September , 2017 Hello! Yesterday recieved a new map of the book "Ehrenbuch der Westfalen" (Book honour of the Westfalians) The Baumhof (Piccadilly farm) is marked as Bauernhof. Now I´m sure it was III./Res.Inf.Rgt. 57. The 39th are too far south of St. Eloi. I´ll read the text to the map this afternoom. Maybe I´ll find something new Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 13 September , 2017 Share Posted 13 September , 2017 It was III/ RIR 13 which was there, RIR 57 (I checked the regimental history) was in reserve and was mopping up but got partially involved. They describe themselves that RIR 13 was involved with Scottish regiments... III/RIR 13 was the battalion which was the most effective that day (read the regimental history p. 184-190). RIR 13 installed the regimental battle headquarters in Bauerhof during the day and planned their attack on St. Eloi from there. RIR 57 was only put in the frontline during the night 25-26 April west of Bauerhof (see regimental history p. 196). (I have been busy with this attack by the 13. Reservedivision for a book about Bayernwald years ago and I know the area very well, which makes it easier to understand the battle descriptions.) Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 13 September , 2017 Share Posted 13 September , 2017 Hello Jan! Yes, I recieved the regimental histories yesterday; I hadn´ time to read... RIR13 was involved with scottish regimements , but is the 9th bn. MGC involved too? If they were in Bauernhof, the map shows III/57. Is the map wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 13 September , 2017 Share Posted 13 September , 2017 37 minutes ago, The Prussian said: Hello Jan! Yes, I recieved the regimental histories yesterday; I hadn´ time to read... RIR13 was involved with scottish regimements , but is the 9th bn. MGC involved too? If they were in Bauernhof, the map shows III/57. Is the map wrong? The map is a bit difficult to understand, but RIR 57 is more to the west (as is clear by its regimental history as well, its right flank was on the rail line west of Piccadilly Farm). RIR 13 was clearly at Piccadilly Farm on 25 April 1918 as they describe it was their regimental headquarters in the evening when they staged an attack towards St. Eloi. RIR 57 was then placed on the left of RIR 13 (clearly west of Piccadilly Farm). Whether RIR 13 engaged 9th Bn MGC depends where the British unit was located exactly, probably all over the place as its machine guns would be spread over the sector. However the original poster's man is said to have been captured near Piccadilly Farm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 13 September , 2017 Share Posted 13 September , 2017 So probably he was hit by RIR13. I still wait for the regimental history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 14 September , 2017 Share Posted 14 September , 2017 Here are the pages of the "Ehrenbuch der Westfalen". As an overview because of a few sentences: 25.April, the 13th Res.Div. attacked, right the 7th Inf.Div., left the 19th Res.Div. First frontline Res.Rgt.13 right, Res.Rgt.39 left, Res.Rgt. 57 followed. The most difficult job had Res.Rgt.39. It should attack the shelters in Bayern and Hessenwald. Res.Rgt.13 conquered the hills of St. Eloi. Res.Rgt.57 avanced until 1km before Voormezeele, while Res.Rgt.39 came to "Rotes Haus "Red House" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikereme Posted 15 September , 2017 Author Share Posted 15 September , 2017 Good Evening Gentlemen, Sorry for not getting back to you as I have been in work all week....the information you have provided has been gold dust...I would like to make you aware of your previous comments...The 9th Bn Machine Gun Corps where attached to the 9th Scottish Division...giving fire support during the attack St Eloi 25 Apr..It appears that the II/13 regt is the unit that attacked my uncle position. I Need to know who were the commanders of the following; 13 Reserve Infanterie Div 28 Reserve Infanterie Brigade I/13 Battalion II/13 Battalion III/13 Battalion What Artillery regt were in the 13th Division What guns they had… Which artillery regiments supported the battalions! The 9th Battalion Supported the 9th Scottish Division. ..thank you much...may ask if you can help me with some more information... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 16 September , 2017 Share Posted 16 September , 2017 Hello! Like I said in #30, the commanders were: 13.Res.Div.: Major General v. Oertzen (16.4.1860-25.11.1922), I-a officer Captain Varnbüller Res.Inf.Rgt.13: Lieutenant-Colonel Krome (23.8.1867-?) For the bataillon commanders, I habve to wait for the regimental history. Artillery in the 13th Res.Div. in 1917: 100th artillery command with: 13th Res.Fieldart.Rgt 99th Foot-Art.Rgt. You have to look on the map, so you can sse, which regiment supported the infantry regiments. Their guns were canons and howitzers (I don´t know which company was eqipped with canons or howitzers. Feldkanone 7,7cm M98/09 or M16, Feldhaubitze M96n.A. or M16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikereme Posted 16 September , 2017 Author Share Posted 16 September , 2017 Brilliant....You both mentioned that the III/13 Battalion...had a most effective day #57...and they used the Baurhof (Piccadilly Farm) as their Regimental HQ before assaulting St Eloi....(this makes tactical sense)...my great uncle must have been wounded & captured here with his gun team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikereme Posted 16 September , 2017 Author Share Posted 16 September , 2017 On 9/14/2017 at 03:37, The Prussian said: Here are the pages of the "Ehrenbuch der Westfalen". As an overview because of a few sentences: 25.April, the 13th Res.Div. attacked, right the 7th Inf.Div., left the 19th Res.Div. First frontline Res.Rgt.13 right, Res.Rgt.39 left, Res.Rgt. 57 followed. The most difficult job had Res.Rgt.39. It should attack the shelters in Bayern and Hessenwald. Res.Rgt.13 conquered the hills of St. Eloi. Res.Rgt.57 avanced until 1km before Voormezeele, while Res.Rgt.39 came to "Rotes Haus "Red House" Could you possibly translate the information regarding the RIR 13 attack on the Baurhof/st eloi....especially the III Bn who were in the Piccadilly Farm/Baurhof area.... a brief outline if possible.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 16 September , 2017 Share Posted 16 September , 2017 (edited) Hello! By the way... It´s Baumhof, not Baurhof... in the text it´s called Bauerhof... that might be wrong... I can try to translate it, but there is only the 26th mentioned, not the 25th. Is that ok for you? Edited 16 September , 2017 by The Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikereme Posted 16 September , 2017 Author Share Posted 16 September , 2017 Yes..that would be great thank you...sorry got sausage fingers with the spelling.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 16 September , 2017 Share Posted 16 September , 2017 Sausage fingers.... I didn´t know, that this word is well-known in engloish too... In german "Wurstfinger"... Well, here we go: I./Res.13 had the ordre at 26th april to follow the III.Btl. to support the attack at the eastcorner of Voormeezele. The bataillon was led by First lieutenant v. Pfeffer from his bovouac near Baumhof ofer the craters of St. Eloi, where a gap between the II and III Btl. was built. Because the enemy created MG positions in the battery-nests, the regiment asked for artillery-fire and ordered v. Pfeffer to break-through with one company after the artillery attack. v. Pfeffer instructed Lt. Kindt, commander of the melted-down 1. and 3. company to do that. In preperation to the attack v. Pfeffer recieved the shock-battery Noack and two trench-mortas. Sign for the attack: the strike of the 11th mine. Suddenly heavy german artillery fire stroke on the target. New time of attack 4pm. Lt. Kindt attacked under support of the german heavy MG he overrun with bayonet and hand-grenade fights the enemy positions. Some scots got captured. Could that be the report to your history? Lt. Kindt survived the war Here a few sausage-fingers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 16 September , 2017 Share Posted 16 September , 2017 Although I can't match Andy's wurstfinger photograph this is one of the area we are discussing. This was taken looking north from the two Petit Bois June 1917 craters, with Madelstaede Farm behing and Hollandse schuur Farm is on the far side buildings in the middle distance. Sint Elooi is out of picture off to the right beyond the spur; the terrain is flat until it starts to rise up towards Kemmel away to the left. The towers and spires of Ieper are on the middle horizon. Hope this helps. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 16 September , 2017 Share Posted 16 September , 2017 (edited) Great photo, Pete! I always exciting to see the old battlefield on new photos, so we can see it like the soldiers did see it! Here is an intersting photo of the St. Elooi craters from 1916 https://tomdewittefotografie.wordpress.com/2014/09/08/sint-elooi-krater/ https://inventaris.onroerenderfgoed.be/erfgoedobjecten/95349 Edited 16 September , 2017 by The Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikereme Posted 16 September , 2017 Author Share Posted 16 September , 2017 WOW this might be it....I know that he was in A Coy with 4 sections....I section (x 4 vickers MG) were located x 1 gun Dome house x 1 gun Hiele farm (Darmstrasse Area) x 2 Guns in the area of the Mound. 2 Section x 2 guns east of the Mound x 2 guns east of Piccadilly Farm (Baumhof/sausage fingers)...3 section x 1 Gun Snipers Barn (Rotes Haus)..x 1 Rifle Bridge (North of Bayenwald). x 1 gun carre farm x 1 gun bois carre. 4 section in reserve (Reningelst)....during the battle 3 section inflicted heavy casualties on the enemy and a company of infantry was used solely for ammo belt replacing... It seems that St Eloi was lost to the enemy but a stop line was imposed in the cheapside line not far from the vierstratte line...all the way to la clytte.... My Uncle must of been captured by your Lt Kindt are there any photos of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 16 September , 2017 Share Posted 16 September , 2017 (edited) I don´t think ther is a photo of him. He was Lt. in 1918, so probably he didn´t serve in the pre-war time, that could be seen on a reserve-photo. Maybe he promoted to Lt. in 1917. The only chance would be the regimental history Edited 16 September , 2017 by The Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikereme Posted 16 September , 2017 Author Share Posted 16 September , 2017 Thank you so much my friend there is beer for you and all those who have helped me...."We will remember all those who have Fallen" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 16 September , 2017 Share Posted 16 September , 2017 Do you know, in which section he served? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikereme Posted 16 September , 2017 Author Share Posted 16 September , 2017 I cant be sure but he may have been in the area of Piccadilly farm as it says in the Battalion Diary that this gun was surrounded and not many survivors came..i wasn't aware that the the St Eloi/Darmstrasse was captured but it does make sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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