gilly100 Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 I was sent this disturbing image showing what has become of this memorial just near Anzac Cove, which of course was dedicated to all combatants. Seems it happened in May this year. Very sad indeed. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 That really is a shocking piece of news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wood Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 Shocking indeed - hopefully not government inspired? Do you mind if I share this image gilly100? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarchetta Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 Wow... That is not some kid scratching with a penknife, that is someone with a pneumatic drill for a few hours. Who would want to do a thing like that? This has an ISIS feel to it, thinking destroying things will wipe the memory of them from the population's mind. How small-minded and selfish. Peter Hart, how will this affect your tour in September (possibly adding a new aspect if you still go to this site to talk about the modern political/social divisions that might drive this sort of vandalism)? Glad I was lucky enough to see this with you last year... James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wood Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 Oh ****! Thanks for the info Gareth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilly100 Posted 11 June , 2017 Author Share Posted 11 June , 2017 Yes it appears Gareth is spot on. A massive shame and huge mistake. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 Ian I think you and I got the photo you posted and the text I posted from the same source, a source that I trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 During the Gallipoli Association tour visit a month ago the sound of the machinery doing this work could be heard almost all across the peninsula: sometimes in the background it was akin to woodpeckers, but sometimes much more intrusive. It's not just at Anzac Cove, but as I understand it, all the nine so called monolith sites are being similarly "restored." Sadly the very useful information boards at Quinns have also gone I worry that the loss of National Park status may bring more even changes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 Was this one in the ANZAC protected area? If so, do the Australian and New Zealand governments know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wood Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 Is Ataturk's statue at Chunuk Bair under threat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarchetta Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 5 hours ago, Gareth Davies said: This action is the first step in what the Turkish government are calling a 'restoration'. It seems that there is a move to use the the peninsula as a site for religious pilgrimages and so any references to Ataturk and secular Turkey are being removed. This is I am told a decision made by the government in Ankara, not the local Turkish people at Gallipoli, who are as outraged as we are. So, 100% government inspired I am afraid. 'Removed' would be cut off neatly at the base and re-located somewhere where it cannot offend the delicate eyes of future pilgrims. This is destruction of history, less important but on the same page as Palmyra... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 Destruction of any monument to the dead is totally abhorrent. However I wouldn't agree with it being in the same book as the destruction of Palmyra, never mind on the same page. There is even doubt as to whether Ataturk ever spoke the words: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/apr/20/ataturks-johnnies-and-mehmets-words-about-the-anzacs-are-shrouded-in-doubt Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 Trajan, With your historical background, you will no doubt be familiar with the Roman practice of damnatio memoria ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 I'll see is I can find out more over here from the British Institute in Ankara... As it is there is a conference here this week on protection of the heritage in times of conflict - I am supposed to be interviewing MA candidates but I'll try to get away for it. See: http://biaa.ac.uk/event/workshop-protection-of-cultural-heritage-in-emergency-situations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 1 minute ago, clive_hughes said: Trajan, With your historical background, you will no doubt be familiar with the Roman practice of damnatio memoria ?! Yes, and given how our current president escaped from being prosecuted a year or so back for calling or implying Mustfa Kemal was a sot, well, I guess his supplicants might manage to get away with this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 Absolutely appalling. What's happening in Helles? I was not aware that Gallipoli had any particular religious connotation. HMG should protest, as should the governments of NZ, Australia, Canada, Ireland, India, and France. If it is true, then it is an offence against all. The introduction of religion into the equation is worrying. What does it mean for the cemeteries, memorials, and headstones with Christian, Jewish, Hindi, Sikh insignia and words on them? Iconoclasm tends to be all embracing. I have no objection to a particular religious slant on any site of memory. If muslims want to give their own interpretation to any battlefield, then that's fine with me. But this should not be at the expense of any other group's memory. Live and let live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard_Lewis Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 This is worrying news. Just where is Turkey headed? Bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moggs Posted 11 June , 2017 Share Posted 11 June , 2017 What is my government saying about this? Why isn't this front page news? I'm absolutely gutted by this situation. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wood Posted 12 June , 2017 Share Posted 12 June , 2017 1 hour ago, moggs said: What is my government saying about this? Why isn't this front page news? I'm absolutely gutted by this situation. Jonathan The Turkish government is effing up a Turkish monument - it's not really a matter for a foreign government to interfere in, no matter how regrettable it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 12 June , 2017 Share Posted 12 June , 2017 10 hours ago, Phil Wood said: The Turkish government is effing up a Turkish monument - it's not really a matter for a foreign government to interfere in, no matter how regrettable it is. A lot depends on its location! E.g., is it within a CWGC-defined area? Aside from which, it is a monument dedicated to all the foreign fallen and so as a simple matter of courtesy its demolition should have been a matter for discussion beforehand. And demolition is what it is although I understand from a contact that 'environmental' factors have been explained as the reason why damage has been observed this year at one memorial in the area. Anyway, I have e-mailed the UK Embassy here and so perhaps they might be able to provide me with further information that I can share with GWF. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wood Posted 12 June , 2017 Share Posted 12 June , 2017 The Ataturk statement (whether he made it or not) is a classic of international raprochment and conciliation - which one might think was a tourist puller in terms of Anzacs in particular owing to its location. It is worrying that the current regime cannot stomach such sentiments. While it is close to a CWGC cemetery it would astound me if it was anything whatsoever to do with them. In terms of sacrilegious activitiy on a battlefield the road across Anzac Cove is far worse - all to provide battlefield tourists a spot to gather. What worries me most is that they haven't simply demolished it - leading to the thought that they intend to reface it with some 'praise be to Allah, this is where we threw the infidels into the sea' style message. I assume from comments that the panels at Scimitar Hill and Chunuk Bair have received similar treatment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 12 June , 2017 Share Posted 12 June , 2017 As far as I can tell Phil, yes, all the monoliths have had their text removed but they have not themselves been demolished suggesting, as you say, that they await the addition of a replacement text of some sort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 12 June , 2017 Share Posted 12 June , 2017 32 minutes ago, trajan said: I have e-mailed the UK Embassy here and so perhaps they might be able to provide me with further information that I can share with GWF. Julian Thanks Julian I look forward to your up-date on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wood Posted 12 June , 2017 Share Posted 12 June , 2017 Of course, the authorities may just have decided that they were getting a bit tatty and needed refurbishment. Until new text appears we won't really know what the real impact of this work will be (uness someone has local contacts who know what is to come). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedley Malloch Posted 12 June , 2017 Share Posted 12 June , 2017 1 hour ago, Phil Wood said: Of course, the authorities may just have decided that they were getting a bit tatty and needed refurbishment. Until new text appears we won't really know what the real impact of this work will be (uness someone has local contacts who know what is to come). Well, it could be a simple refurbishment. I hope you are right. But the last time I saw them (2015), they did not look in need of refurbishment. And look at the way it has been systematically effaced. It is very reminiscent of the methods of the iconoclasts. Look them up for their religious connections. Then consider what else is going on in Turkey. When that's done - join up the dots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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