Ross Bayonet Mk.I

[free1954]

very nice RANGEROVER. the only thing nicer than those bayonets are the rifles. do you still shoot them? I wouldn't fault you if you didn't.

[RangeRover]

Thanks free...

 

Yes, I do take them to the range, though I don't put a lot of rounds through them in a year. For a few years (but not for the last couple of years) I organized a Ross/Vintage Battle Rifle shoot on a local range. Open to other types, but trying to emphasize the Ross, in all its variations. Here's an image from one of the events a few years back. Lots of Ross rifles (my three at the bottom). We put them to work at 100, 200 and 400 metres. Great fun!

 

 

 

 

Edited 13 April , 2017 by RangeRover

[GWF1967]

29 minutes ago, RangeRover said:

Thanks free...

 

Yes, I do take them to the range, though I don't put a lot of rounds through them in a year. For a few years (but not for the last couple of years) I organized a Ross/Vintage Battle Rifle shoot on a local range. Open to other types, but trying to emphasize the Ross, in all its variations. Here's an image from one of the events a few years back. Lots of Ross rifles (my three at the bottom). We put them to work at 100, 200 and 400 metres. Great fun!

 

 

 

 

Great display. Thanks for posting. 

[free1954]

nice. you never see ross's here in northeast usa. I seen one for sale about 4 years ago, it sold for 500.00. do you use reloads for these? thanks for posting the picture.

Edited 16 April , 2017 by free1954
fat fingers

[T8HANTS]

Nice gathering, but have you (naughty man) forgotten to open and clear the action with the bottom rifle?

[msdt]

Hi RangeRover, thanks for the id re H for Halifax, wondered if that might be the case. Any idea about the 94? It does not seem to be the rack number, as that is the other number on the scabbard throat and pommel. Superb rifles!

Cheers,

Tony

 

Edited 16 April , 2017 by msdt

[RangeRover]

Free...for now I'm using commercial ammunition in both, but will be switching to handloads soon (given the ever-escalating prices for ammunition). As for prices for Ross rifles, they've gone up significantly in recent years (just like every other military surplus rifle it would appear). Cut down/sporterized examples here go for $400, while original full wood examples are between $1700 and $2000 now. There are people here who are reproducing stocks and nosecaps, so some of the previously sporterized examples are being returned to representative trim.

 

mdst...a rack number is the only thing I can think of for the '94'. My markings book provides info only on the letter assignment to each depot.

 

and T8hants, I know it looks closed, but the action is open on the Ross 1912 Cadet .22 at the bottom; it's the angle of the photo. Here's a better picture to show how much further forward, and toward the top of the action, the rounds eject from this rifle.

 

Edited 16 April , 2017 by RangeRover

[T8HANTS]

Thank you for increasing my knowledge,  .22" trainers are a very interesting sub genre of military pattern rifles and I hadn't realized that there was a Ross variant. 

Is it single shot or magazine?

My 'umble apologies for doubting your range procedure

[trajan]

4 hours ago, RangeRover said:

... mdst...a rack number is the only thing I can think of for the '94'. My markings book provides info only on the letter assignment to each depot. ...

 

 

I have greatly enjoyed the photographs of those Ross', even though I am not a bangedy-bang collector. But, out of interest - which markings book are you using? There has been some debate on other threads here at GWF regarding Canadian markings and finding a reliable source for understanding these!

[RangeRover]

No worries, T8hants. I have no issues at all about conversations/challenges when it comes to firearms safety. The Ross Cadet is a single-shot. They are about as hard to find as their big brothers in .303

 

Trajan, the markings booklet I have is called "Small Arms Unit Marks - Applied to Rifles, Carbines, Swords, Bayonets, Dirks, etc. by British and Canadian Ordnance Corps". It is (was) produced by an organization called Service Publications here in Canada (http://www.servicepub.com) a great resource for reading and reference material for the military collector/historian with a focus on Canada. This booklet is currently out of print, but the information it comes from the 1912 British Armourer's Instructions and the 1924 Canadian Instructions to Ordnance. It has been useful in deciphering several obscure regimental markings, though there have been some markings put forward the book hasn't been able to help with.

[shippingsteel]

On 05/01/2017 at 08:13, msdt said:

Here's my early Ross bayonet, this one a 12 '09, same inspector. Still not sure which unit the H 94 represents.

 

Tony, my suggestion would have it being for the 94th Regiment of the Militia, which were coincidentally known as the 'Highlanders'. 

 

Pre 1900 they were designated 94th Victoria Battalion of Infantry, Argyll Highlanders, they then became 94th Victoria Regiment, Argyll Highlanders in 1900, and even later in 1920 becoming The Cape Breton Highlanders. This unit later merged with The Nova Scotia Highlanders and still exists in the Canadian Army of today.

 

PS. The capital of Nova Scotia where the 94th Regiment originated also happens to be Halifax, so I think you have your answer. Probably marked for the wartime depot, as previously indicated. 

Edited 18 April , 2017 by shippingsteel

[trajan]

On 05.01.2017 at 09:04, trajan said:

Two possibilities spring to my mind ... OR 'H' is for headquarters 94th Battalion, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/94th_Battalion_(New_Ontario),_CEF ?

 

On 06.01.2017 at 14:02, msdt said:

... This surely means that the H . 94 was stamped on the pommel in April 1913, so too early for the 94 to equal the battalion suggested by trajan. ...

 

But don't forget that bayonets do not have to be unit-marked the same year that they were made... I am sure some of you P.07 fanatics can find examples of that but Tony, I'll just settle for one of your own - a 03 15 Enfield P.07 marked for the 2nd Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire Regiment, a unit formed in 1919 - http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/233264-1907-bayonet-marked-to-the-bedfordshire-and-hertfordshire-regt/  And post no. 7 that same thread,  an 09 18 P.07 regimentally marked RHLI, the Royal Hamilton Light Infantry, formed in March 1927,

 

 

10 hours ago, shippingsteel said:

 

Tony, my suggestion would have it being for the 94th Regiment of the Militia, which were coincidentally known as the 'Highlanders'. 

 

Pre 1900 they were designated 94th Victoria Battalion of Infantry, Argyll Highlanders, they then became 94th Victoria Regiment, Argyll Highlanders in 1900, and even later in 1920 becoming The Cape Breton Highlanders. This unit later merged with The Nova Scotia Highlanders and still exists in the Canadian Army of today.

 

An interesting and amusing suggestion! Quite cheered me up! Only problem being that as the 94th was colloqially known as the "Argyll Highlanders", surely if it was marked for them, it would have been marked 'A.H.', not 'H'?

 

Trajan

[free1954]

RANGEROVER, I asked about the reloading as I had heard that ROSS reloaders used a different size projectile than the standard for the 303 and got better accuracy.

[robins2]

On ‎2017‎-‎01‎-‎02 at 17:30, JMB1943 said:

Bob,

One of the cleanest that I have seen in a long time, so thanks for posting.

Is that inspector #11 and date 2/16 ?

Regards,

JMB

Insp 11  8/16

regards

Bob R.

[robins2]

some better photos of my Ross, anyone hazard a guess of who it was issued to?

 

regards

 

Bob R.

[trajan]

4 hours ago, robins2 said:

some better photos of my Ross, anyone hazard a guess of who it was issued to?

 

 

 

 

 

I'll let others do the bayonet markings as I have a class to teach but I reckon the scabbard is marked for the 96th Battalion, The Lake Superior Regiment

[msdt]

Well I think that nails it for my Ross bayonet then. As S>S suggested the 94 represents the 94th Regiment of the Canadian Militia, with as RangeRover suggested the H for Halifax, that being the local depot for this unit based in Nova Scotia.

And now we have a scabbard/frog marked to the 96th Regiment of the Canadian Militia! Lake Superior Regiment as Trajan suggested.

And is that a depot name and acceptance date above - W 2 11 (scabbard is 1909)? Re the bayonet Bob, a pattern (19)11 made in 08/16, and I think issued to regiment 19 with rack number 295 on 02/17.

Cheers,

Tony

[trajan]

Ah, yes, the 'H' for the Halifax connection...!!! All makes sense - but images of 94th regiment armourers wearing kilts as they mark their bayonets 'H' for highlanders was, well, a cheering one!

 

Julian

[RangeRover]

12 hours ago, robins2 said:

some better photos of my Ross, anyone hazard a guess of who it was issued to?

 

regards

 

Bob R.

 

Hi Bob.

 

This bayonet follows the more traditional Canadian military marking style, with the battalion number above the rack number, separated by a horizontal line.  So this bayonet went with Mk III Ross rifle #295 allotted to the 19th Battalion of the Canadian Expeditionary Force - taken into stores in February of 2017 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19th_Battalion_(Central_Ontario),_CEF). By this point, the Ross had been replaced in front line service by the Lee Enfield No. 1 Mk III. Many Canadian snipers kept using the Ross rifles throughout the war.

 

The Ross rifle is pretty unique in having its history documented in the woodwork. As the rifles were taken on strength, they would receive a stamp on the buttstock denoting the battalion and the rack number. If the rifle moved to a new battalion, the earlier markings were struck out, and new markings stamped. Here's a photo of the buttstock on my Mk II 5* Ross showing its travels through the Canadian military system. Sadly, many stocks got sanded post-war by civilian owners, who may have also, in creating a very accurate hunting rifle, cut back the forestock and/or shortened the barrel, so finding a rifle with markings intact is a bonus, and garners a premium. Sanding the buttstock also removed the rifle's serial number, as the s/n was only stamped into the buttstock on military Ross rifles, with a few exceptions; for example, The HMS Canada rifles, the Canadian Home Guard rifles, and the Ross rifles taken into service by the Royal Marine training depots.

 

Edited 19 April , 2017 by RangeRover

[robins2]

great info, thanks all

 

regards

 

Bob R.

[sksvlad]

Here is mine, newly acquired for $20 at a small show. What's the meaning of "22507" on the walnut?

 

[robins2]

I've never seen #,s stamped on handle,  could be regimental # of individual who was issued the bayonet??? 

[sksvlad]

Thanks. This is my 1st time dealing with a Ross bayo. Are they all dull (not sharp) on the edge of the blade? Also, there are no markings on pommel's edge.

[4thGordons]

I am going to offer a speculation on the numbers.

Some (+/-200) of the Ross Rifles (M1910) and bayonets that are in circulation in the US came from the rifles that equipped HMS Canada during WWI (post war it was resold to Chile -who had originally commission the ship and it served as the Almirante Latorre)  I believe these Ross bayonets were serial numbered to the rifles, although I do not know the form the marking took - I have seen large numbers of this style stamped on other South American arms so.....

 

As I understand it, both rifles and bayonets were also stamped DA ( "Department de Armada" ) is there any sign of a DA stamp on this bayonet?

 

I believe forum member Terrylee has a DA marked Ross rifle - perhaps he can shed some light on this?

Chris

[RangeRover]

Great deal on that bayonet, Sksvlad.

 

This bayonet wouldn't be from one of the HMS Canada Ross rifles as those were Mk III Ross rifles which use the later, Mk II, bayonet which has a different muzzle ring. 

 

Markings in that location are not unusual. Here's my Mk II bayonet with a number stamped in the same location. What it refers to I have been unable to determine as there's a different 'regimental' marking, including number, stamped into the metal at the top of the pommel at the butt end. Any markings there on your bayonet?

 

In looking at your photos it looks like there might, maybe/perhaps, be a circular stamp impressed into the grip on the other side of the bayonet under what looks like cross-hatching? Can you make out what that is? Possibly the U.S. surcharge flaming bomb? Any other number under the flaming bomb? If so, this could be one of the Mk I bayonets that came with the 20,000 Mk II Ross rifles acquired by the U.S. That's where the US 'rack number' is usually found. The "22507" marking does not conform to the standard markings used on the American Ross rifles.