Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Ross Bayonet Mk.I


JMB1943

Recommended Posts

Here are a few photos of a recently-acquired Ross Bayonet Mk.I.

The bayonet itself is in a rather poor condition, and was purchased (not knowing exactly what it was) with an eye to some heavy duty restoration work.

However, seeing now just what it actually is, I think I'll put away any thoughts of a drastic clean-up.

Dimensions (Specs.) LOA 373 mm (373)

Blade Length                     258 mm (254)

MRD                                  ~14 mm (14.2)

Weight                               469 g (N/A)

Markings on ricasso: none on either

Markings on LHS pommel: broad arrow inside C (Canadian ownership); 08 (Inspector mark ?)

                                           Crown/8 (proof mark); 11-09 (Date of acceptance)

Markings on RHS pommel: none (or covered by corrosion)

Markings on LHS grip:       Crown/8

Markings on RHS grip:       none

Identified as a MK. I by,

a) the pin between the release button and top of pommel is visible on both sides of pommel (less so on the heavily corroded RHS),

b ) extension of the muzzle ring to rear, and

c) what Skennerton describes as "Inside the muzzle ring there is a recess which contains a split annular spring with three flattened surfaces." I'm glad that I did not have to try to describe that myself.Ross Bayo 3x.jpgIMG_2578.JPGIMG_2581.JPGIMG_2582.JPG

 

Regards,

JMB

Edited by JMB1943
typo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

JMB

 

Have seen worse!  My thoughts, just clean off any loose corrosion, maybe lightly sand the grips, then oil to conserve the piece.

 

Mike.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMG_0011 (1).JPGIMG_0011 (1).JPGvery nice detailed write up. here is my ross. the gentleman who gave it to me told me it was carried as a fighting knife and a picket pin during the first world war.

IMG_0003 (1).JPG

IMG_0005.JPG

IMG_0007 (2).JPG

IMG_0008 (1).JPG

IMG_0009 (1).JPG

Edited by free1954
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Free,

Nice to see the non-corroded pommel of your example. Also, the grips do actually look like walnut.

We have a common inspector (08) and date of acceptance (11-09) so these two were in the same place at about the same time.

Do you have any clues as to where it may have seen service?

With the Ross rifle being a failure, it looks like the bayonets were relegated to the likes of picket pins etc as your donor described.

Too much time out in the open and put away wet would certainly explain the corroded wood/metalwork of mine.

Regards,

JMB

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heck, JMB, that'll need some work! But on the whole I'd go with MikeyH. No unit markings? Ross, by the way, are exceedingly scarce over here - I have seen exactly three in the past 5+ years, all at ridiculous prices...

 

Julian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMGP3864.JPGIMGP3863.JPGIMGP3862.JPGa couple of photos of my Ross |bayonet

 

regards  Bob R.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bob,

One of the cleanest that I have seen in a long time, so thanks for posting.

Is that inspector #11 and date 2/16 ?

Regards,

JMB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Note that Free1954's scabbard has US Service Marks (flaming grenade and US)

Quite a large number of 1905 Ross rifles were purchased by the US in early 1917 for use as secondary training arms, US Marked 1905 Ross Rifles and bayonets are not uncommon.

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, JMB1943 said:

Free,

Nice to see the non-corroded pommel of your example. Also, the grips do actually look like walnut.

We have a common inspector (08) and date of acceptance (11-09) so these two were in the same place at about the same time.

Do you have any clues as to where it may have seen service?

With the Ross rifle being a failure, it looks like the bayonets were relegated to the likes of picket pins etc as your donor described.

Too much time out in the open and put away wet would certainly explain the corroded wood/metalwork of mine.

Regards,

JMB

no idea where it seen service. it was a long time ago but I remember the owner telling me he was with the 76th field artillery, company B. here is some info on them from GREEKMAN 44 on the gunboards  forums........ "A lot of these wound up in training camps in NY State. They were fore the obsoleted Ross MkII rifle. according to Gary M. Cunningham's book "U.S. Knife Bayonets & Scabbards", 20,000 were bought from Canadian Government. 12,000 went to NY State, 5,000 to Camp Devens in Massachusetts, & 3,000 to Camp Sherman in Ohio. As Carl said, Home Guard & State Militia Units got them. They were stamped on right grip & front of scabbard. I have a clearer bunch of PIC's where markings show.Click image for larger version.   Name: P08 b.jpg  Views: 7  Size: 18.4 KB  ID: 1839634Click image for larger version.   Name: P08 c.jpg  Views: 6  Size: 19.2 KB  ID: 1839642Click image for larger version.   Name: P08 d.jpg  Views: 6  Size: 24.3 KB  ID: 1839650Click image for larger version.   Name: P08 e.jpg  Views: 6  Size: 23.0 KB  ID: 1839658Click image for larger version.   Name: P08 f.jpg  Views: 5  Size: 27.6 KB  ID: 1839666Click image for larger version.   Name: P08 g.jpg  Views: 4  Size: 19.0 KB  ID: 1839674Click image for larger version.   Name: P08 h.jpg  Views: 4  Size: 21.5 KB  ID: 1839682PIC's courtesy of PCAY!Click image for larger version.   Name: P08 i.jpg  Views: 5  Size: 26.3 KB  ID: 1839690Click image for larger version.   Name: P08 j.jpg  Views: 6  Size: 24.3 KB  ID: 1839698Click image for larger version.   Name: P08 k.jpg  Views: 5  Size: 25.0 KB  ID: 1839706Click image for larger version.   Name: P08 l.jpg  Views: 5  Size: 27.7 KB  ID: 1839714 Click image for larger version.   Name: P08 a.jpg  Views: 6  Size: 16.2 KB  ID: 1839626

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎2017‎-‎01‎-‎02 at 17:30, JMB1943 said:

Bob,

One of the cleanest that I have seen in a long time, so thanks for posting.

Is that inspector #11 and date 2/16 ?

Regards,

JMB

Insp 11  8/16

regards

Bob R.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

that should have been battery b. 76th field artillery. but I don't think that was him, it was a long time ago. and if this bayonet was used as a picket pin it doesn't appear  like it was hammered on with anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's my early Ross bayonet, this one a 12 '09, same inspector. Still not sure which unit the H 94 represents.

Cheers,

Tony

IMG_1411.JPG

IMG_1412.JPG

IMG_1424.JPG

IMG_1426.JPG

IMG_1405.JPG

IMG_1428.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Two possibilities spring to my mind - not that I know very much at all about Canadian unit markings, so these are pretty much wild guesses...

 

Is that an almost obliteterated 'S' before the 'H' and so Sherbrooke Hussars, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherbrooke_Hussars ? Did they have the Ross?

 

OR

 

'H' is for headquarters 94th Battalion, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/94th_Battalion_(New_Ontario),_CEF ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tony,

Nice example & yours has also the matching scabbard, so very sweet.

Does the pommel also carry a '17' or '12' at the top RHS?

Regards,

JMB

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tony,

Really?

I know that you have it in front of you, but I cannot see the '4' at all.

Regards,

JMB

edit: not meant to be insulting, I was just so surprised at your reply !

Edited by JMB1943
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi JMB,

The 4 can just be made out in that shot about the same distance left of the dot as the middle of the 13 is to the right.

This surely means that the H . 94 was stamped on the pommel in April 1913, so too early for the 94 to equal the battalion suggested by trajan.

Actually I am not completely sure of the interchangeability of the 1908 and 1911 pattern bayonets. I believe the 1908 was made for the Mark 1 and II Ross rifles, but does anyone know if it fits the Mark III as well, or can this rifle only take the 1911?

Cheers,

Tony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dimly recall that the 1908 Pattern, which officially became known as the Ross MkI after the introduction of the MkII in 1911/2, has a smaller Muzzle Ring Diameter.

I suppose that would mean the MkII would "fit" on a 1905 Ross but be loose but the MkI would not fit on a 1910 Ross. I haven't actually tried it but will next time I get to them!

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do not have my bayonets handy, but have just dug out Skennerton. He gives the 08 an MRD of 14.2 mm and the 11 16.5 mm, so clearly they are not interchangeable. The Mark III Ross rifle was the one the Canadians took to France I believe, so these would have needed the 11 pattern bayonet.

Cheers,

Tony

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

I thought I'd add my new find here.  1914 dated. 1909 scabbard. 

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GWF,

Bayonet & scabbard both look pretty nice.

Does the scabbard have a gloss, almost patent leather, finish ?

Regards,

JMB

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The scabbard is in very good condition, with a gloss finish. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I spotted a nickel plated Ross in an antiques emporium the other day, never seen another.

 

Mike.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, MikeyH said:

I spotted a nickel plated Ross in an antiques emporium the other day, never seen another.

 

Funnily enough the only Ross I have seen over here was nickel-plated! Also a GB one, so I didn't buy it...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...
On 2017-01-04 at 15:13, msdt said:

Here's my early Ross bayonet, this one a 12 '09, same inspector. Still not sure which unit the H 94 represents.

Cheers,

Tony

 

Late to the conversation here, but only just checked in to the forum after an absence, so catching up. My 'Small Arms Unit Marks' book points to this bayonet being marked to the Ordnance Depot in Halifax, Nova Scotia. (H.) There were a series of City and Camp depots, each with their own abbreviation. "T." for Toronto, "M." for Montreal, etc. My Mk I bayonet (pictured below with it's Mk II sibling) is "T" marked. 

 

IMG_7119%20copy.jpeg

 

And here are the bayonets with their appropriate Mk II and Mk III Ross rifles.

 

Ross%20MkII.jpeg

 

Ross%20Mk%20III.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...