Waffenfabrik Mauser 98/05 bayonets

[trajan]

For those who especailly like Waffenfabrik bayonets, do check-out the attached abstract, for an article published on-line 5th March. - Yes, blowing my own horn, but....!!!

abstract A_Call_for_Arms_Supplying_the_Sultans_Ar.pdf

[trajan]

The article will be embargoed for a year so I can't freely post it yet, but the attachment is a summary of the key points. These are all properly referenced in the article, so 'I speak from facts, not fiction'(!), with much of my data coming from Jon Speeed of GBF. Feel free to use, but please acknolwedge me if you do so!

 

Julian  

KEY POINTS FROM A CALL FOR ARMS.pdf

[skafer]

Hi guys here are my two Bayonets. Any information appreciated thanks

Here is other bayonet 

[AndyBsk]

First one is turkish generic M35 bayonet, made from S98/05 by shortage of blade to 25cm, anyway the old crossguard was removed as visible by rivets on tang and added from other way a aditional higher crossguard with ring, i assume the tang area in handle was welded after cuting. Second one is a S98/05 nA from Demag with damaged press button/ locking lug.

Edited 22 June , 2023 by AndyBsk

[skafer]

Thanks Andy I was finding it hard to try sort through different types on different pages etc

[skafer]

Does anyone on here know of a product/solution that could remove the oxidation on the blades and one that can prevent more ?

[AndyBsk]

good oiling and gently cleaning with brass or steel 0000 wool wout any scratches.

[skafer]

Thanks mate

[ColonelKlink1942]

Hey gang,

I went to a gun show on March 2nd, 2024, and scored a couple bayonets. One of them is an S98/05, which I have wanted for a while now and am happy to finally get my hands on one. The bayonet is in great shape, though sheathing and unsheathing it out of the scabbard is a chore, as it seems like the blade gets stuck when trying to do this. There are no major markings on the scabbard, but there is a proof mark on the scabbard throat, bayonet pommel, and the blade's spine. My blade was proofed in 1917. No unit markings have been found. I will only post the Ricasso marking alongside a photo of the bayonet, as I don't want to clutter everything up too much.

I have only begun to research the markings and understand the history of this bayonet. Thanks to Julian for creating this thread, I've been going through the pages and learning as I go along. It's neat to know that bayonets stamped with "Waffenfabrik Mauser A.G. Oberndorf aN" were actually manufactured by “Unionwerk Mea G.m.b.H. Elektrotechnishe Fabrik Eisenwerk”, and contracted by Mauser Oberndorf. It's also neat to know that 1917-18 examples tend to be the most common ones found, though that doesn't bother me.

Julian mentions that a lot of them were sent to Turkey, and that intrigues me, and I will pose a question about that.

In a lot of the photos that folks here have posted, I noticed that the Ricasso stamps only show "Waffenfabrik Mauser A.G. Oberndorf aN" and nothing else, not even a serial number. On my example (see photos below), it also has that same stamp, but then there is a 4-digit serial number ("4286") stamped just below it, above the crossguard. I don't know if Turkey serial-ed their bayonets when they received them, but did they ever do that? Otherwise, how many other Mauser Oberndorf-marked examples have a 4-digit number stamped onto them? (post-war stamping by a previous owner has briefly crossed my mind as well)

Please feel free to educate and guide me! Photos below:

 

 

[AndyBsk]

4826 should be on scabbard too, its a inventory stamp, mostly a german one, probably never went to Turkey. What for letter is on scabbard?

[ColonelKlink1942]

16 minutes ago, AndyBsk said:

4826 should be on scabbard too, its a inventory stamp, mostly a german one, probably never went to Turkey. What for letter is on scabbard?

There are no numbers or letters on the scabbard, I wish there were. I suspect it may be a mismatch. Thoughts?

[AndyBsk]

In that case maybe yes, even WW1 production was not normally serialed. Any picture of the mouth piece proof?

Edited 7 March by AndyBsk

[ColonelKlink1942]

2 hours ago, AndyBsk said:

In that case maybe yes, even WW1 production was not normally serialed. Any picture of the mouth piece proof?

Yes, here is the scabbard mouthpiece:

 

[AndyBsk]

Should be probably a Mauser proof, even not light to deciphere.

[ColonelKlink1942]

I think you're right. I wish I could've gotten a clearer picture, it's hard to make out.

[AndyBsk]

You could compare the spine or pommel proof with this one. Anyway a Mauser scabbard normally was marked on backside with name, when is not so its probably missmatch.

[M1890 ottoman]

@AndyBsk My first bayonet W16 Simson suhl 98/05nA , has got a crown C and the number 5 on the mouth piece, I have no idea what it stands for.

[AndyBsk]

crown C when correct should be for Solingen production. nr.5 could be internal serialing.

[M1890 ottoman]

Thanks for the prompt reply Andy. Currently working on the scabbard for about a month now. I didn't expect, the amount of time and attention it would take.

 

[AndyBsk]

The inspector proof could be on mouth , hook and ball finial. It would be nice to see result of Your work.

[trajan]

On 07/03/2024 at 21:53, ColonelKlink1942 said:

 

Julian mentions that a lot of them were sent to Turkey, and that intrigues me, and I will pose a question about that.

 

Welcome to GWF! Have a look at: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17416124.2021.1882793 for more on this!

[navydoc16]

On 10/04/2024 at 23:15, trajan said:

Welcome to GWF! Have a look at: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17416124.2021.1882793 for more on this!

Hi Trajan, I have a couple in my collection for no other reason then at the time they were in very nice conditon and were cheap. 
 

I have one where I believe to be in “unissued conditon” could you advise if this is known to have occurred? the bayonet is entirely in the white- no blueing but I am unable to a certain if they were supposed to be in the white or blued from the factory 

I will post photos when I can dig them out I should have maybe 5 or so others but just one in the white. 
 

kind regards

g

[trajan]

22 hours ago, navydoc16 said:

I have one where I believe to be in “unissued conditon” could you advise if this is known to have occurred? the bayonet is entirely in the white- no blueing but I am unable to a certain if they were supposed to be in the white or blued from the factory 

Good question, and one I have never thought about, to be honest, as all mine are 'bright'. I suspect that is how they were issued as the earliest reference I can find regarding the blueing of German bayonets is a 1930's order that all bayonets should be treated this way. That implies that they weren't done so before, but I can't be certain!

Best  

[navydoc16]

4 hours ago, trajan said:

Good question, and one I have never thought about, to be honest, as all mine are 'bright'. I suspect that is how they were issued as the earliest reference I can find regarding the blueing of German bayonets is a 1930's order that all bayonets should be treated this way. That implies that they weren't done so before, but I can't be certain!

Best  

Very curious, I had the pleasure of purchasing it and noticed it was quite late 1918 from memory- it came from some sort of semi offical/ museum display- likely brought back from the war and hung in an RSL- it had wax applied to the back for wire hangers.

 

it has only been over the last couple years I have understood just how nice condition it actually is 

 

I will find it for you and photograph and see what you think- it’s not a Mauser made but you might be interested- I will photograph my Mauser as well just for show- it is 1917 and typical as well if all the others nothing particularly special I don’t think 

 

kind regards

g

[navydoc16]

Attached below, I have had to slightly steel wool the cross guard to remove active rust- the wax and hooks attached it to the display but condensation at that point resulted in some rust.