trajan Posted 19 August , 2015 Share Posted 19 August , 2015 I thought the South African Railways made ones were short versions of the P.1913? Or is this a South African Police marking? Outside of my experience, so just guesses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 19 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 19 August , 2015 South African Railways also manufactured P.'88s at one time so it is not unlikely that they made some Patt.'07s during WW2, as well as the short Patt.'13. The rough finish is characteristic of this maker. -SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrylee Posted 19 August , 2015 Share Posted 19 August , 2015 (edited) Yes, South African Railways. During the Second World War Pattern 1907s were manufactured by the South African Railways and the Associated Engineers Company. Archival evidence indicates that a total of 2450 were produced. The S.A.R. also made "about" 7,000 Pattern 1888 some of which were actually issued to members of the Defence Rifle Associations. A.E.Co completed 1,800 shortened Pattern 1913s. There are no archival records confirming that the Pattern 1907s or the Pattern 1913 were ever issued. However, it is recorded that production of the P 1907s was stopped due to the receipt of at least one batch of Australian bayonets. The extreme rarity today of the South African P 1907s and P 1913s suggests that they may have been quietly scrapped upon receipt of better quality bayonets from overseas. S.A.R. P1888s, although uncommon, do turn up occasionally. Australian Lithgow P.1907s are fairly common. Edited 19 August , 2015 by Terrylee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motojosh Posted 20 August , 2015 Share Posted 20 August , 2015 Excellent collection! I really like how you've got your p03 displayed on the smle. Can you post a photo of the Bavarian Jager marking on the 71/84 when you get a chance? -Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 20 August , 2015 Author Share Posted 20 August , 2015 Josh - I had several of these stubs cut from piles of SMLE stocks in my local dealers years ago. Very handy for displays. Herewith the unit markings on the M.71/84 as requested. Not very professional, but readable. - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 4 September , 2015 Author Share Posted 4 September , 2015 I've put this bayonet up before, but in a much smaller picture, and this is the other side of it, quite scarce so worth repeating. No regimental marks on the bayonet but the frog is marked to the 76th Infantry Regiment. - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 4 September , 2015 Share Posted 4 September , 2015 Aaaahhhh, the infamous Gottscho variant... And in excellent condition! Not that I am jealous, but... As you probably know, Gottscho wrote to the Bavarians on 11th January 1915 that he was already supplying this 'Muster II' type to the Prussians, and there are a scant few marked to Prussian units, but most markings and the photographic evidence suggest they were mainly used by the Wurttemburg regiments. What always amazes me about this type is that the Bavarians thought of supplying them to their cavalry, although there is no evidence that this actually happened. That aside, does your scabbard have a number on the throat, or haven't you dared look? And what maker's mark does it have? If the KSG combination, then the bayonet is likely to have been one of those supplied originally to Bavaria. Best regards, Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 4 September , 2015 Author Share Posted 4 September , 2015 Hi, Julian. There is a lightly stamped Crown over a Gothic 'S' on the back of the blade. No markings that I can see on the scabbard, but the frog has shrunk into place and I don't want to want to risk damage removing it. The stamps on the ricasso are visible in this view. Very appropriate! - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 4 September , 2015 Share Posted 4 September , 2015 Yes, according to Richardson, SW examples usually have an 'S' fraktur, so that fits nicely. Once again, though, an excellent example - one wonders if it was ever used! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 4 September , 2015 Author Share Posted 4 September , 2015 We'll never know that, but the blade has been expertly sharpened; most of the others I have seen have been relatively blunt edged. - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 8 September , 2015 Author Share Posted 8 September , 2015 This one for the 'hooky fans'. As a matter of purely personal preference this has to be my favourite. In reasonably good condition, but everything has been together during it's service life. Bayonet manufactured in 1909, scabbard the same and the frog. The frog was made before the details of the entrenching tool was decided and the strap for the tool was added after manufacture, note the added '10. The stitching goes through both layers of the the webbing and the rivets are the very early two piece type. Pommel marked to the Rifle Brigade. Love it. -SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 9 September , 2015 Share Posted 9 September , 2015 Not much more to be said, really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 9 September , 2015 Author Share Posted 9 September , 2015 A couple of details - the front of the Mark 1 scabbard shows a rub mark where the helve holder was strapped until quite recently, (wish I knew where it is now!), and the holder strap is stained by the brass buckle of the missing piece. The Ist Pattern frogs are very rare, The pommel is marked to the Rifle Brigade with a Reserve number. The scabbard locket mouth also has a Reserve number but not quite matching, although the same set of punches appear to have been used. The blade edge has been expertly sharpened, probably on mobilisation. The First Batt. R.B. were at Colchester and mobilised in August 1914, landing at Le Havre on the 23rd. It formed part of the 11th Brigade, 4th Division, B.E.F. and subsequently were at Le Cateau, Battle of the Marne, The Aisne and took part in the Xmas truce at Ploegsteert. An excellent and original piece of B.E.F. history. - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 31 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 31 December , 2015 A Xmas present. A Sg.71, beloved by Trajan and unit marked and c/w with it's brass mounted black leather scabbard. The crossguard is marked to the Infanterie- Regt. Landgraf Friedrich 1 von Hessen Cassel (1st Kurhessisches) Nr.81 from Frankfurt aM Main, Upper Hesse. The reverse of the locket is mismatched to Fusilier-Regt Konigin Viktoria von Schweden, Nr. 34 ( Pomerania). The blade has been somewhat enthusiastically sharpened to improve the point profile, which appears fairly common on bayonets issued early on in the War. The heel of the blade is marked with a 'F' over 73 inspector's stamp. and the maker is P.D. Luneschloss, Solingen. These bayonets were often issued with the Mauser Gew 88 and also popular as sidearms with Field Artillery crews. Note the neat single line cancellation of the scabbard stamp. - SW More to come, and better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 31 December , 2015 Share Posted 31 December , 2015 Very nice, Santa was kind. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 31 December , 2015 Share Posted 31 December , 2015 A quick look in before I get hauled back for family New Year's entertainment, a so a quick yes, SW, Santa did you proud there! No or very little shrinkage in the scabbard also... Well, certainly a Happy New Year there! And of course same goes to all others here on GWF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 31 December , 2015 Share Posted 31 December , 2015 A quick look in before I get hauled back for family New Year's entertainment,... Well, certainly a Happy New Year there! And of course same goes to all others here on G Lucky old you, I am still confined to bed in an empty house, but no good feeling sorry for myself, enjoy your festivities one and all. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 31 December , 2015 Author Share Posted 31 December , 2015 Yes, Happy New Year and good hunting to all you collectors out there. - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 January , 2016 Share Posted 1 January , 2016 Lucky old you, I am still confined to bed in an empty house, but no good feeling sorry for myself, enjoy your festivities one and all. khaki Hope you are better! If confined to bed, then it's catch up on reading time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 1 January , 2016 Share Posted 1 January , 2016 Thanks, been unwell for about three weeks now, just got to let it run its course. can only do things a little bit at a time, including reading unfortunately. regards khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 3 January , 2016 Share Posted 3 January , 2016 Khaki, sorry to hear you are unwell,happy reading. Wishing you a speedy recovery my friend, Regards, Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 3 January , 2016 Share Posted 3 January , 2016 Many thanks Al, I appreciate the kind thought's, at least house no longer empty, family a pleasant distraction. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 14 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2016 As Trajan is into unit marked German bayonets: - how about this one? A Sg98 Alter Arte mit scie. Further, it is one of the batch made at Erfurt 1898/99 and issued in 1899 to the Garde Korps for troop trials. The plain infantry versions are rare enough but only 6% of those issued were saw-backed. The crossguard is marked to the Garde Schutzen Battalion, Third Company, Weapon Nr.9 The original steel mounted black leather scabbard has been replaced by a pressed steel item made by F.A. Gobel whose oval company logo is stamped on the reverse. The originals proved prone to buckling unless supported by the blade. This and the extensive sharpening of the blade indicates that the bayonet continued in service during the War. The scabbard retains traces of it's original black painted finish.- SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 14 February , 2016 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2016 A close-up of the unit markings. The inspection date is 1899 and the maker is Erfurt Arsenal. The war-time black leather frog is unmarked. - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 14 February , 2016 Share Posted 14 February , 2016 SW, I only collect British bayonets, however, I can still appreciate the superb foreign bayonets in your collection, each is an excellent example. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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