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CROONAERT

East Lancashire Regiment

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stu

Hi Dave,

Thats really good of you to offer to check the newspaper archives for me,I really appreciate it.

Many thanks.

Regards.

Stu.

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Mark Hone

I tried the web address for the David Ingham site but it didn't seem to work.

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CROONAERT
I tried the web address for the David Ingham site but it didn't seem to work.

Mark.

Try HERE.

Dave.

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Guest Talana Farm

"Could I ask what your interest is in John Lavin? He happens to be a member of my "extended" family (to be exact, he's my wife's grandad's (also named John Lavin - served in the 7/Border Regiment 1917-18) cousin). I believe that my father-in-law has a bit of info. on him."

John Lavin is also part of my extended family. I would be happy to pass on any details I if you are interested.

Regards,

Kris

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Guest Talana Farm
Anything to do with the 7th Batt. East Lancs on 21st July 1916, or any mention of a John Lavin - Pte. 16985 - 7th Batt. East Lancs. Regiment  KIA. July 21, 1916, Somme

Kris.

Your lookups are below.

Could I ask what your interest is in John Lavin? He happens to be a member of my "extended" family (to be exact, he's my wife's grandad's (also named John Lavin - served in the 7/Border Regiment 1917-18) cousin). I believe that my father-in-law has a bit of info. on him.

Small world!

Dave.

Dave,

Thanks for the lookups! They are very informative.

As for John Lavin, like I said in the above post he was a distant cousin. I have some information about John, but if your Father in law has anything to add it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Kris :D

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Guest Talana Farm
Could I ask what your interest is in John Lavin? He happens to be a member of my "extended" family (to be exact, he's my wife's grandad's (also named John Lavin - served in the 7/Border Regiment 1917-18) cousin). I believe that my father-in-law has a bit of info. on him.

Dave,

This is a transcription of a Burnley Express news paper article (date unknown). John Lavin is briefly mentioned as he was a cousin of these McCarthy Brothers.

Family That Has Been Hard Hit. -- Two Brothers Killed, Two Wounded, Cousin Missing.

A family very hard hit by the war is that of the McCarthy's, one of whom as announced Wednesday's issue, has now been presumed dead, after beig missing at the Dardenelles from August 9, 1915. It is a remarkable record of four brothers and a cosuin. All were in the East Lancashire Regt. Two brothers have now been killed; one has lost his left eye but is still serving; whilst the cousin, Pte. Lavin, has been reported wounded and missing since July 1st last, and there are no hopes that he is alive, as nothing has been heard of him, either officially or otherwise since. The unmarried McCarthy brothers lived at 11, Leyland Road, and the cousin (the only cousin) resided with his widowd mother in Pitt Street. Two of the brothers, John and Thomas, and the cousin enlisted within three days of each other.

The eldest of the McCarthy brothers is Sergt. Michael, who is forty years of age. He served in the Boer War, and was a reservist when the present war began with the 3rd East Lancashire Regt. He was on going out attached to another battalion, and has been wounded twice -- once at Neuve Chapelle and once at Salonika. He has now been in hospital at Salonika for the past eight months. He is unmarried.

Denis McCarthy, the second brother, has been rejected for military service, but he is working munitions.

The third, Pte. James McCarthy, who was 33 years old at the time he was killed, was with the 1st East Lancashire Regiment, and previous to joining the Army worked at Cooper's Foundry. He was married. He was killed at Ypres on July 6th 1915. He was a reservist having been with the colours seven years. He went through the Boer War. He left three little children, and on his dead body was found a photograph of his wife and children.

John McCarthy, the fourth son who is 32 and married, and belongs to the 6th East Lancashire Regiment lost his left eye through a bullet wound received at the Dardenelles. He was just coming out of the trenches when he was hit. He was taken to a hospital at Port Said, and afterwards came to a hospital at Brockenhurst, Hants. Pte. John McCarthy is still serving, being at the headquarters at Plymouth. He was formerly a joiner's labourer.

The fifth brother, Thomas is now presumed to have been killed after being missing at the Dardenelles since August 9th 1915. He was 23 years of age then, and previously was employed at Rowley Colliery. At the time he was missing a comrade said he was wounded in the head and body, and then disappeared.

Their cousin Pte. John Lavin, also of the East Lancashire Regiment was wounded and has been missing since July 1st. It is feared that he is dead.

The McCarthy family are connected with St. Mary's Roman Catholic Church.

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CROONAERT

Kris.

Thanks for that. Interesting to note that a (ex)workmate of mine used to live at 11 Leyland Road a few years ago, and I've been in there for a brew quite often when I was working at the mill (we just used it for storage when I was there - no I can't weave cotton!!!) at the top of the street.

You may already have this, but in case you don't, here's John Lavin's obituary from the Burnley Express (August/September 1917 - unfortunately, I didn't note the exact date!).

Apologies for the quality but, believe me, it's an improvement on the one held on microfilm at Burnley library. There's a definate likeness between this John Lavin and his cousin John (my "Grandfather in law" ?). You'll note that the McCarthy's also get a mention.

Dave

(PS. it's over 2 posts - I had to do a bit of work on the bottom bit to make it readable at all!)

post-16-1083709621.jpg

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CROONAERT

(post 2)...

post-16-1083709736.jpg

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CROONAERT

Just noticed, reading the two obits. , it's funny how innacuracies creep in. In one obit, Pte.Lavin has been missing since July 1st, in the other, since July 21st. In one obit it mentions him living with his widowed mother, yet the other mentions his Father, living in Healey Wood (where Pitt Street ,where his mother lives, actually is!) being "very much upset" at the news of his son's death!

Makes you wonder!

Dave. (your distant cousin through marriage! :P )

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Guest Talana Farm

Dave,

Thanks for John’s obit – I had not seen that before and it gives me a lot of new information to work from.

Do you have any other information on John Lavin or his family?

I have attached the news article I mentioned yesterday. It is hard to read but it has grainy photos that bring the people to life.

Perhaps you already know but Townley Hall in Burnley will be holding an exhibition on Burnley soldiers who were killed during WW1 (runs for 90 days and ends 11 Nov).

Thanks,

Kris (cuz)

p.s do you live in Burnley?

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CROONAERT
Do you have any other information on John Lavin or his family?

Perhaps you already know but Townley Hall in Burnley will be holding an exhibition on Burnley soldiers who were killed during WW1 (runs for 90 days and ends 11 Nov).

p.s do you live in Burnley?

Kris.

I've sent you a response to your PM. Just to make it a little easier, send me what you know about John Lavin, and I'll see what (if anything) I can add. (As I mention in my PM, I've mainly got info on the "other" John Lavin).

I did know about Towneley Hall's exhibition, but thanks anyway. (I think that Towneley's displays have improved of late. - they went from good to average to bloody awful ,back up to not bad over the past few years, although I do miss the "Scarlett Room" with the model of the "Charge of the Heavy Brigade").I'm quite hopeful that this will be pretty good.

Yes, I do live in Burnley. ( :unsure: )

Dave. :D

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whkay

Dave

Many thanks for the recent obit on Sgt D Brady (17950-Wcoy 11th Batt) you kindly provided.

From this I would ask that is there anything in your records regarding the attack at Beaulieu and then Gombert Farm (La Becque) on 28 July 1918 - it was here I believe he was wounded, subsequently dieing at St Omer.

Many thanks

Mark

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whkay

Dave.

Another one please..

Corporal Thomas Hatch No36921 East Lancs Regiment.

I have his VM & BWM, he was my mother in laws father..

I know nothing else and would be very grateful if you could check if there is any mention of him in the books you have.

Thanks.

Mark

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whkay

Dave.

One final thing and sorry for continueing to bother you (however it appears you have a great knowledge of the local regiments) do you have anything in the way of information on the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment and specifically on the 9th Battalion of that regiment? i.e. listed men, theatre of operation, a copy of the war diary?

Many thanks.

Mark

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CROONAERT
I would ask that is there anything in your records regarding the attack at Beaulieu and then Gombert Farm (La Becque) on 28 July 1918 - it was here I believe he was wounded, subsequently dieing at St Omer.

Mark.

(I presume that you mean 28th June 1918)

Here's the account from the History of the E.L.R. regarding the 11th Bn on this date....(2 posts)...

Dave.

post-16-1083972949.jpg

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CROONAERT

...and...

post-16-1083973040.jpg

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CROONAERT
Corporal Thomas Hatch No36921 East Lancs Regiment.

I know nothing else and would be very grateful if you could check if there is any mention of him in the books you have.

Nothing mentioned as far as I can see. His service number strikes me as one belonging to the 7th Battalion ELR, though, (if that's of any help).

Dave.

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CROONAERT
do you have anything in the way of information on the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment and specifically on the 9th Battalion of that regiment? i.e. listed men, theatre of operation, a copy of the war diary?

Yes.

I've got the Official History for this regiment too. (If you use the "search" button in the "Unit Histories" section of this forum, you'll find me advertising my wares for this unit there). Anything specific that you require?

Just to keep you going, though, the battalion was raised in Sept.1914 and served in France and Flanders, arriving in France (Le Havre) on September 24th/25th 1915.

The Bn recieved the following battle honours: "AISNE 1918", "YPRES 1917,'18", "Loos", "SOMME 1916,'18", "Albert 1916", "Bazentin", "Pozieres", "Ancre Heights", "Messines 1917" , "Pilckem", "St.Quentin", "Bapaume 1918", "LYS", "Estaires", "Bailleul", "Kemmel", "Scherpenberg", "France & Flanders 1914-18". (Those in capitals were entitled to be borne on the colours).

Dave.

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whkay

Dave

Many thanks, again. Of course I meant the 28th June, just got over-exited when I read you possessed the history...

Re Tom Hatch, its a start..

The chap I'm interested in from the 9th Loyal North Lancs was 10892-Cpl William Henry (Harry) Kay of Oldham, he was my great grandfather.

I have his medals also including the military medal, gazetted on 18/10/17 (no citation though!). Other than having evidence he was captured sometime after this I know nothing other than he was repatriated after the war. My grandfather told me he knew nothing because Harry would never talk about his experiences which after reading through various forums would appear to have been quite commen.

Anything you hold will be a start before I go to Fulwood barracks..

Many thanks.

Mark

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CROONAERT
The chap I'm interested in from the 9th Loyal North Lancs was 10892-Cpl William Henry (Harry) Kay of Oldham, he was my great grandfather.

I have his medals also including the military medal, gazetted on 18/10/17 (no citation though!). Other than having evidence he was captured sometime after this I know nothing other than he was repatriated after the war. My grandfather told me he knew nothing because Harry would never talk about his experiences which after reading through various forums would appear to have been quite commen.

Mark.

Chances are that he was awarded the MM for some action in August 1917, possibly for the capture of the Westhoek Ridge on 10th August, or in the holding of their new positions during the night of 11th-12th August.

I say this because practically for the whole of July, the 9/LNL were engaged as working parties repairing roads, reconstructing comms trenches, improving water pipes, etc.etc. under the disposal of the CRE, II Corps..

They then went into the above action and were withdrawn to the Steenwerke and Eeke area on the 17th August ,remaining here untill early September when they were holding trenches in front of Glencorse Wood and Stirling Castle. On 9th September, they moved south of Bethune and were involved in reorganisation and training for 3 weeks. Nothing of note happened for the rest of the year.

No mention of Cpl.Kay in the LNL History.

Dave.

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CROONAERT
Chances are that he was awarded the MM for some action in August 1917, possibly for the capture of the Westhoek Ridge on 10th August, or in the holding of their new positions during the night of 11th-12th August.

....Then again, I suppose there's always the chance that it was awarded for an action during the Messines Ridge assault, in which the battalion took part from June 7th to June 9th...

(Personally, I'd go for the August action, though)

Dave.

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whkay

Cheers Dave.

Spent the morning looking through the "search" you suggested.

Amazing what you can learn if only you take the time to look back!

Thanks again.

Mark

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linniestorm

Hi! Newbie here...

I was wondering if there was any mention of

Private Ernest Ince, No. 2303, 1st/4th Bn East Lancashire Regiment

who died on 13th August 1915. He's my great-great uncle. I know he's commemorated at Redoubt Cemetery, Helles but would like to know if he's mentioned in the history, or what the regiment were doing at the time he was killed. I noticed there were some extracts from August '15 but it was a case of 'so near and yet so far!'

Many thanks for any help you can give me!

Lindsay

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CROONAERT

Lindsay.

No mention of your Gt-Gt. Uncle, but here's what the history has to say for the 1/4th ELR for the whole of August 1915....

(2 posts)

Dave.

post-16-1086821361.jpg

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CROONAERT

...and 2...

post-16-1086821440.jpg

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