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Remembered Today:

George F Sadler, 29925. Uniform I.D please?


Sam_martin82
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Hi guys

My Great Grandfather was in Hampshire Regiment (Pioneers). I only have two photographs of his uniform.

The two photographs of him are in my albums in my profile. I'm having problems uploading them to this post so bare with me. My questions are -

1 - is the uniform that of the Hampshire Regiment?

2 - what are the uniforms/clothing the other people are wearing?

3 - where do you think the photographs were taken?

All I have are these two photographs, his medal roll, medal index card and hand written war diaries which I am having problems reading so I do not know which countries/theatres/campaigns he was in, who he served with etc etc.

Thankyou very much

Sam

post-102397-0-63810000-1403543519_thumb.

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The cap badge on the left looks like Fusiliers.

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Thanks Johnboy.

I'll check the Unit/formations bit on this site for information on Fusiliers. Any info appreciated? Cheers.

Sam

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The man in the middle of the front row holding his cards up seems to be wearing a DCM, no other medal ribbons apparent on anyone else, so could be up to late 1919 early 1920 if none of them were entitled to a Star.

It maybe a flaw on the negative, but the same man also seems to have more on his epaulette than the man seated to his right, as does the slightly blurred figure extreme left, may suggest mixed Regiments.

Finally the intriguing part of the photo is the very blurred man extreme right who seems to be wearing white cricket trousers, he's also wearing what looks like a sports boot.

Sorry but none of it can answer your questions, but maybe it'll mean something to someone.

Sam

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Sam

I'd suggest you remove your email address from the post, anyone who want's to contact you can do so by a Private Message (PM), these threads are open to anyone to view, including non-members.

Sam

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Sam

I'd suggest you remove your email address from the post, anyone who want's to contact you can do so by a Private Message (PM), these threads are open to anyone to view, including non-members.

Sam

Thanks. I'll remove email address. Only put it on as emails update regularly on iPhone. Cheers.

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Hopefully someone will be along to identify man on right with white trousers and double breasted jacket.?

With magnification it can be seen that most of the men are holding playing cards.

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Thanks again. A help as always. I'm very curious by the white trousers and playing cards, maybe a mess room photo?

There is a second photograph in my profile I need help with but as working from iPad I can't resize it to post it.

Can any member please look at that as well and comment here please?

Thanks very much. Sam

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The second photo seems to show servicemen of different nationalities. Possibly French or Belgian. There is unfortunately no cap badges that stand out.

Is there anything on the reverse of either photo?

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Hopefully someone will be along to identify man on right with white trousers and double breasted jacket.?

With magnification it can be seen that most of the men are holding playing cards.

I don't think the photo is double breasted. I think it is a standard Service Dress Jacket like all the others but he moved slightly during the exposure creating blurring and a double image of the buttons.

I think he is wearing cotton fatigues overall trousers also non standard boots.

Chris

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That's interesting. Myself and a colleague wondered if it could have been Eastern Europe or Turkey as we thought one or two were wearing a fez. I thought the Hampshires were at Gallipoli.

I think the photographs were on a disc that my dad found when my Grandfather passed away last year so we don't have originals.

Thankyou

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post-14525-0-35819100-1403551373_thumb.j

Here is your other picture resized slightly to fit. It is a very interesting mix of uniforms.

Chris

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and an attempt to enlarge it slightly...

Some of the Uniforms look Russian to me, others look French. A number of men are wearing armbands that resemble those worn by POWs, chap middle center appears to have an Adrian Helmet/Cover with a star on it. Really interesting.

post-14525-0-85196800-1403551810_thumb.j

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Interesting photo.of a mixed group. Would pow camps have had women?

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Thank you Chris and Johnboy

I'm really intrigued now. Unfortunately I've said all I know about my Great Grandfather.

Apparently his Service Record doesn't exist which is a shame. I only have the documents photographed in my profile.

Hopefully someone will recognise a bit more and elaborate. Cheers.

Edited by Sam_martin82
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The first photo appears to be set in a canteen and, apart from the Royal Fusilier with his headdress on, several of the other men have curved shoulder titles that are commensurate with the Hampshire and other regiments. I agree that the man in the pale coloured trousers is probably wearing canvas fatigue trousers with issue pattern canvas shoes. He might well be a cook.

I think you will find that the other photo relates to the Salonika campaign, which included troops from France, Serbia and Greece, as well as Britain. http://www.salonikacampaignsociety.org.uk/

The 11th Service Battalion of the Hampshire Regt were allotted to the Pioneer role, and the 10th Service Battalion of the Hampshire Regt fought in Salonika. Both battalions were formed at Winchester, within a month of each other in the high Summer of 1914. Both units then deployed to Dublin and then Mullingar (also in Ireland) until 1915, when they separated, one to the 16th Division and the other to the 10th Division. Perhaps your man started with the 11th battalion and then moved (transferred) to the 10th battalion when they were both at Mullingar in early 1915.

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Thankyou very much.

I'm learning so much tonight. I appreciate your time and knowledge.

In the absense of his service records is there anyway I can check and confirm what you guys are saying? I have the War Diaries but as he was only a Private I doubt he'd be named.

I'll definitely be ready up on the Salonika campaign to see if I can make head nor tail of it all.

The first photograph is intriguing too. I'm guessing that could be from any period in the War though.

Thanks so much. Sam

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Thankyou very much.

I'm learning so much tonight. I appreciate your time and knowledge.

In the absense of his service records is there anyway I can check and confirm what you guys are saying? I have the War Diaries but as he was only a Private I doubt he'd be named.

I'll definitely be ready up on the Salonika campaign to see if I can make head nor tail of it all.

The first photograph is intriguing too. I'm guessing that could be from any period in the War though.

Thanks so much. Sam

Sam one thing to consider is that the 11th (Pioneer) battalion of the Hampshire Regt never served outside of France and Flanders. Conversely the 10th (Service) Battalion Hampshire Regt served in Gallipoli and then Salonika. It seems very likely to me that if George Sadler is in both photos then he transferred between the two battalions. If he did not transfer at Mullingar in early 1915 then it is not impossible that he did so later on.

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Thankyou

As I have no documents apart from what's photographed in my profile is there a way to prove this?

Are there any nominal rolls etc? The war diaries will take a long time to look over and likely learn nothing.

Any ideas accepted........Thanks

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Sam

Have you checked his Medal Roll at Kew to see if there's any changes of Bn?

Sam

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Hi Sam

I have the medal roll which is photographed in my album in my profile. That's all I could find at Kew. I paid £2.80 for it.

Other names list more than one battalion but his only lists the 11th Hants. Pte. 29925.

Sam

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Hi Sam

I have the medal roll which is photographed in my album in my profile. That's all I could find at Kew. I paid £2.80 for it.

Other names list more than one battalion but his only lists the 11th Hants. Pte. 29925.

Sam

11th (Service) Battalion (Pioneers)

Formed at Winchester in September 1914 as part of K2 and moved to Dublin, attached as Army Troops to 16th (Irish) Division. Moved to Mullingar in September. Became Pioneers to the Division in December 1914. Moved to Kilworth in March 1915 and on to Aldershot in September 1915.

Landed at Le Havre on 18 December 1915.

2 May 1918 : reduced to cadre strength. Returned to England on 18 June 1918 and moved to Lowestoft.

Reconstituted with 13th Bn, the Border Regiment.

Moved to Aldershot on 3 July 1918 and landed at Boulogne on 1 August 1918.

16th (Irish) Division

Formed in Ireland in September 1914 as part of the Second New Army. Arrived in France in December 1915. Served in France and Flanders until April 1918 when the Division was reduced to Cadre and returned to England. The Division was reconstituted and returned to France in July 1918. Served in France and Flanders until the Armistice.

Battles and Engagements France and Flanders

Battle of Guillemont. 3-6 Sep 1916.

Battle of Ginchy. 9 Sep 1916.

Battle of Messines. 7-14 Jun 1917, including the capture of Wytschaete.

Battle of Langemarck. 16-18 Aug 1917.

Battle of St. Quentin. 21-23 Mar 1918.

Battle of Rosieres. 26-27 Mar 1918.

The final advance to Artois. 2 Oct-11 Nov 1918, including the capture of Douai.

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Thank you

I'm just struggling to find anything else about him as a soldier. I've found the battalion histories and thanks to those that have helped.

I have the war diaries so maybe I'd better get reading and transcribing. Wish me luck.........

What I need are documents, nominal rolls etc but I fear I've reached the end of the road. Thankyou very much guys.

All information and help appreciated. Sam

Edited by Sam_martin82
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Thank you

I'm just struggling to find anything else about him as a soldier. I've found the battalion histories and thanks to those that have helped.

I have the war diaries so maybe I'd better get reading and transcribing. Wish me luck.........

What I need are documents, nominal rolls etc but I fear I've reached the end of the road. Thankyou very much guys.

All information and help appreciated. Sam

Few nominal rolls have survived Sam and most mentions of individual soldiers below officer rank only occur in the event of acts of gallantry. You have to remember that with the social attitudes of the times the individual was subsumed in the mass. Put crudely the men were cannon fodder - literally.

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