George F Sadler, 29925. Uniform I.D please?

[Sam_martin82]

My sentiments exactly.

Thanks for all your efforts. Much appreciated.

[Sam_martin82]

Hi Guys.

I've been in touch with my Dad and Uncle re the photographs. The originals are packed away somewhere but my Uncle remembers my Grandad saying of George the following -

The photographs of Granddad Sadler were taken at the prisoner of war camp in Germany where he was held from 1916 to 1919 when he was repatriated. I can’t remember where in Germany though and I don’t think the actual area was ever mentioned to me. He was picked up on the Somme after being wounded. Two big Canadians in retreat stopped but refused to carry him back saying there was a stretcher party following them. Unfortunately for him the Germans got there first but at least their surgeons were able to save his leg but it was always one inch shorter than the other as the leaders had been damaged.

I think that the photos were taken after the war was over but before he was repatriated. I doubt if the German authorities would have taken camp snaps. Mum told me that when he eventually came home he called at the house next door so as not to give Nan a shock but being nosey she looked out of the window and saw him! Apparently a lot of the neighbours gave food for him as he only weighed six stone on his return but because of the poor diet at the prisoner of war camp, cabbage soup and black bread, it was all too rich for him and made him sick so he had to be weaned back onto proper food with bread and milk for a while.

Can anyone shed any light onto where the P.o.W camps were? Big ask I know, I've Googled it but get mixed abswers.

Thanks very much

Sam

[FROGSMILE]

Hi Guys.

I've been in touch with my Dad and Uncle re the photographs. The originals are packed away somewhere but my Uncle remembers my Grandad saying of George the following -

The photographs of Granddad Sadler were taken at the prisoner of war camp in Germany where he was held from 1916 to 1919 when he was repatriated. I can’t remember where in Germany though and I don’t think the actual area was ever mentioned to me. He was picked up on the Somme after being wounded. Two big Canadians in retreat stopped but refused to carry him back saying there was a stretcher party following them. Unfortunately for him the Germans got there first but at least their surgeons were able to save his leg but it was always one inch shorter than the other as the leaders had been damaged.

I think that the photos were taken after the war was over but before he was repatriated. I doubt if the German authorities would have taken camp snaps. Mum told me that when he eventually came home he called at the house next door so as not to give Nan a shock but being nosey she looked out of the window and saw him! Apparently a lot of the neighbours gave food for him as he only weighed six stone on his return but because of the poor diet at the prisoner of war camp, cabbage soup and black bread, it was all too rich for him and made him sick so he had to be weaned back onto proper food with bread and milk for a while.

Can anyone shed any light onto where the P.o.W camps were? Big ask I know, I've Googled it but get mixed abswers.

Thanks very much

Sam

Very interesting Sam.

The principal camps can be found here: http://www.1914-1918.net/soldiers/powcamps.html

[Sam_martin82]

Thanks. A shame we can't narrow it down at all.

[roughdiamond]

The National Archives have reports and interviews for around 3000 POW's, his name is not on the list sadly.

However I'm sure it has been mentioned elsewhere on the site the Red Cross are currently digitising their POW records, be patient and you may get info then, their site makes no mention of the digitisation though.

http://www.redcross.org.uk/About-us/Who-we-are/Museum-and-archives/Resources-for-researchers/Records-of-prisoners-of-war

Sam

[johnboy]

I don't know if there are any German records available. Not knowing a word of german. I would not know.

A PM to pheObus [Daniel] might help as he seems to know of a lot of german records sites.

[FROGSMILE]

Thanks. A shame we can't narrow it down at all.

Don't give up yet Sam, as has been stated the Red Cross are digitising their records and so there is a chance that details will then be found. It will also be worth scouring the local newspapers that are quite likely to have reported homecoming PoWs, especially with so interesting a story as yours.

[Sam_martin82]

Further traffic from Dad and Uncle which should help a bit -

I came across these old German postcards attached in with some greetings postcards sent to Mum from Uncle Will during WW1. (Postcards uploaded in my album, if someone can post to thread please do?)

Lamsdorf was part of Germany then and had been a prisoner of war camp during the Franco-Prussian War of 1870. It then became a barracks and shooting range for the testing of ordinance. During WW1 it was reinstated as a pow camp and was the largest in Germany holding 90,000 prisoners. It also had a hospital where Granddads leg wound could have been treated.

The postcard of Stettin could be where Granddad embarked to sail back to GB. It is a port with access to the Baltic and thence to the North Sea and home. Lamsdorf is now Lambinwice and part of Poland as is Stettin, now called Szczecin.

If you look at the photo taken of Granddad with the men outdoors you will see there is a half-timbered building (although one is single story and the other is 2) behind the men which bares some resemblance to the end wall of the top right building in the Gruss postcard above the words vom Schiefsplatz Lamsdorf.

I know there is a lot of speculation here but I can see no reason, other than being of some family significance, for them being kept by Mum amongst WW1 postcards. Clearly the postcards would have been purchased by someone in those locations at the time and they have been brought home not sent by post.

Edited 27 June , 2014 by Sam_martin82

[johnboy]

[johnboy]

[Sam_martin82]

Thankyou Johnboy. I'm googling Lamsdorf to see what I can learn.

[spof]

Sam

This book has brief details and a map of PoW camps in Germany http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/83348

Glen

[Sam_martin82]

Thanks SPOF.

I'm waiting on the casualty lists and to see if any sort of nominal P.o.W roll comes up.

Thankyou

Sam

[FROGSMILE]

Further traffic from Dad and Uncle which should help a bit -

I came across these old German postcards attached in with some greetings postcards sent to Mum from Uncle Will during WW1. (Postcards uploaded in my album, if someone can post to thread please do?)

Lamsdorf was part of Germany then and had been a prisoner of war camp during the Franco-Prussian War of 1870. It then became a barracks and shooting range for the testing of ordinance. During WW1 it was reinstated as a pow camp and was the largest in Germany holding 90,000 prisoners. It also had a hospital where Granddads leg wound could have been treated.

The postcard of Stettin could be where Granddad embarked to sail back to GB. It is a port with access to the Baltic and thence to the North Sea and home. Lamsdorf is now Lambinwice and part of Poland as is Stettin, now called Szczecin.

If you look at the photo taken of Granddad with the men outdoors you will see there is a half-timbered building (although one is single story and the other is 2) behind the men which bares some resemblance to the end wall of the top right building in the Gruss postcard above the words vom Schiefsplatz Lamsdorf.

I know there is a lot of speculation here but I can see no reason, other than being of some family significance, for them being kept by Mum amongst WW1 postcards. Clearly the postcards would have been purchased by someone in those locations at the time and they have been brought home not sent by post.

That's very interesting Sam and some good detective work. What you are speculating as likely all makes sense to me and I think that you are on the right track.

[Sam_martin82]

Thanks, that's a relief that it looks I'm heading in the right direction.

As previously stated I think all I can do is wait for the Red Cross and Casualty lists etc etc.

I have uploaded another photo to my album. It is a list of names and places. I have no idea what it is or where it's from. It was on the same disc as the other photographs and postcards. I wonder if it's a list of signatures of other people in the P.o.W camp and where they're from. It certainly doesn't look official.

To save me keep asking could someone PM me please how to upload photographs into a post? Thanks guys......

[johnboy]

[Sam_martin82]

Thankyou Johnboy for posting that for me and thankyou to the member who messaged me how to do it. I just tried and my file was too large so any others I have I'll have to reduce. Thanks guys.

If anyone can interpret the last photo I'd be thankful. I think it could be a piece of paper that was passed around prisoners and asked each other to sign. Only an idea. I simply don't know.

[4thGordons]

If anyone can interpret the last photo I'd be thankful. I think it could be a piece of paper that was passed around prisoners and asked each other to sign. Only an idea. I simply don't know.

I think that is very likely. There appear to be names and nationalities (sometimes hometowns/cities) listed.

Russian/Italian/French/Pole?....

It may well correspond to the people photographed in the previous POW image

Chris

Edit

Places look like

Palermo

Napoli

Roma

Palermo

Milano

Italia

Francais

(a few I can't make out)

several Russe (Russia)

Pole (?)

Odessa

Serbisch (? serbian)

??

and the last two appear to say (Engl.)

First name looks like John Wynn, second looks like Adolphe Dufour(e)?

[Sam_martin82]

Thankyou Chris.

That's very helpful and you have surmised the same as I did.

A friend of mine was at an Imperial War Museum stall at Greenwich Market today and was able to enter relatives details into a computer to see if they were on a database of WW1 soldiers. The website is http://www.iwm.org.uk/centenary/lives-of-the-first-world-war.

He phoned me and entered George F Sadler's details and service number. He found an Acting Corporal George Sadler of the Hampshires but with a different service number. Would a soldiers number have changed if they changed rank, ie from Private to A/corporal. The person and service number he found are - Acting Corporal George Sadler, 307007, Hampshire Regiment. Could this be the same person?

Thankyou

[stevem49]

I have heard that some POW's ended up being sent to help the 'white Russians' after WW1 (actually know of one). Did we send any to southern Russia around Odessa or just the Archangel area?

SteveM

[flintwich]

Looks like the names of some of the people on the multi national picture especially as there various nationalities and 2 womens names near the bottom, Frau (Mrs) Anna Hunder and Maria ?

Both ladies appear to come from Falkenberg, Germany which is ENE of Leipzig.

Sometimes early service numbers were changed, normally to longer numbers, but relate to the same person. Others on here are more expert than me on that subject.

Al

[johnboy]

If indeed the women are German they could have been cooks, launderers? Is Falkenberg near a POW camp. If so they could be locals.

[Sam_martin82]

Thanks Flintwich. I'll look into George Sadler with a different service number on Ancestry etc.

Many interesting points raised gents, thanks very much.

[spof]

Hi Sam

That George Sadler your friend found is a different man. This one is your man https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org/lifestory/3876985

Glen

[flintwich]

Sam, the town of Niemodlin was called Falkenberg when that part of Poland was German.

Kreis Falkenberg means county of Falkenberg so the Lamsdorf Ladies seem to be from that county.

Niemodlin is about 8 miles north of Lamsdorf.

The previous Falkenberg that I spoke of is not correct.

The Lamsdorf POW camp of WW1 was reopened as Stalag VIIIB.

http://www.lamsdorf.com/

Al