msdt Posted 4 May , 2020 Share Posted 4 May , 2020 Hi Andy, If the first bunch of Y1903/14 rifles went to Greece with Steyr bayonets then that could explain my Y1903 bayonet still being in the Steyr warehouse in 1914 and not going to Greece. Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakysk Posted 21 May , 2021 Share Posted 21 May , 2021 Here is Greek Y 1903 I just got couple days ago. First I thought (from pictures) that it might Serbian or Yugoslavian or Bulgarian bayonet, but then when I got it and saw George and dragon stamp, little Googling brought me here. Serial number KΠ 2781. Muzzle ring diameter 14mm. Blade length 9 3/4" (248mm). Comparing to blade length in post #6, blade is shorter (?). Also, most serial numbers have letter(s) after 4 digit number. This one has letters first and then numbers. Greek Y 1903 bayonets are totally new to me, so I'm looking forward to learn more about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 22 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2021 On 21/05/2021 at 04:48, rakysk said: Here is Greek Y 1903 I just got couple days ago. First I thought (from pictures) that it might Serbian or Yugoslavian or Bulgarian bayonet, but then when I got it and saw George and dragon stamp, little Googling brought me here. Serial number KΠ 2781. Muzzle ring diameter 14mm. Blade length 9 3/4" (248mm). Comparing to blade length in post #6, blade is shorter (?). Also, most serial numbers have letter(s) after 4 digit number. This one has letters first and then numbers. Greek Y 1903 bayonets are totally new to me, so I'm looking forward to learn more about them. What a nice find - and what a high serial number! I have never seen a double-letter one on a Y1903 before. I think this thread has most information that you need - unless you read Greek...!!! But even the Greek reference books I have seen don't say much about these... Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 22 May , 2021 Share Posted 22 May , 2021 Hey Julian, yes the George/dragon, but I thought the serial numbers had to be centered between the 2 pin’s only. Or is that only for the later T-Backs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 23 May , 2021 Share Posted 23 May , 2021 (edited) On M1903 are the serials stamped on long part of crossguard under barell ring. Edited 23 May , 2021 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 24 May , 2021 Andy is correct. I am still puzzling about that high serial. All of mine are single letters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 24 May , 2021 Share Posted 24 May , 2021 there is possible the KP and ST serials letters are out of range for some other branches? different unit rifles/carbines? long rifles used single letter in majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 26 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 26 May , 2021 On 24/05/2021 at 13:54, AndyBsk said: there is possible the KP and ST serials letters are out of range for some other branches? different unit rifles/carbines? long rifles used single letter in majority. I don'r know. I have a naval example and that is marked with a simple number and an upside-down anchor at the end. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 26 May , 2021 Share Posted 26 May , 2021 (edited) Evidently exist even M03/14 so marked bayonets, so the ST range was used on M03 and M03/14/27 rifles, so probably the best choice would be the greek book to search for, unfortunally Demitrios is out of internet for now. We hope all he will return ok and healthy. In Your post from 10 sept.2015 in part 1 is reported 9062ST on M03 and ST 6xxx on M03/14 so minimum 10000 pieces were so marked, when not carbines so it could be used by Gendarmery or something other branch else with different letters of range in that case doubble letters. by 130000 is no problem to going only to half of alphabet when using 10000 series, so only half of alphabet should be used, much more as carbines are mostly separate marked, and i saw A,B range only of M03 carbine. the best way is look at rifles, as bayonets could be mixed and new M03/14 could be used postwar with older M03 rifles and so reserialed. Edited 26 May , 2021 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 5 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 5 January , 2023 On 08/04/2014 at 18:52, sawdoc34 said: Nice bayonets Julian, an example of this model has so far eluded me for the M1895 type part of the collection & you have 3. Looks like a trip to ebay is called for or failing that it seems a holiday in turkey could be on the cards Aleck Looks like you have got one and even the correct scabard for one now mate! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 5 January , 2023 Share Posted 5 January , 2023 3 hours ago, trajan said: Looks like you have got one and even the correct scabard for one now mate! Julian Good spot mate👍😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 5 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 5 January , 2023 I need to get to them to check how many I have now but I think only one original scabbard... BUT, one of the bayonets w/o a scabbard is a Greek navy example, the rarest of the lot, even with its broken muzzle ring. I saw a really good Y1903 with a frog in the local Antika Pazar last month but had no spare cash to buy it - we have 84% inflation here and I am on a fixed salary... If it is still there next week well, I'll go for it - but will face problems with SWMBO as school fees need to be paid, so may have to swop one of my P.1888's as part of the deal... Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 6 January , 2023 Share Posted 6 January , 2023 Many thanks to Julian & AndyBsk for identifying these for me👍🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 28 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2023 (edited) Not only my first bayonet of 2023 but in fact my first since 2019 I think... Partly COVID, partly inflation here - my 'inflation-linked' salary is adjusted every 6 months, not often enough when we have been suffering incerasing inflation since 2020, officially rising to 84% by the end of 2022, and the adjustments always based on the previous months inflation.... BUT, I needed a 'cheer-me up' present, so dang saving for the school fees for one month! Julian Edited 28 January , 2023 by trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 28 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2023 (edited) Finances apart, bayonets have become pretty difficult to find over here of late. Some P.1907's and 1888's (all 'naturally genuine' Gallipoli captures!), but most of what there is are WW1 German supplied Ersatz and 98/05 (see my article on these - 'A Call for Arms! Supplying the Sultan’s Army, 1916-1918', Julian Bennett, Arms & Armour, Published on-line 05 March 2021, DOI: 10.1080/17416124.2021.1882793 with https://doi.org/10.1080/17416124.2021.1882793), a fair number of 'Rosalies' (all French marked but immediate origins to Turkey uncertain), and left-overs from the Graeco-Turkish War of 1918-1923, mainly OEWG Greek and some French suplied Gras bayonets, and Y 1903's, in original unaltered state. Considering how rare it is to find the latter in unaltered Bulgarian state it is almost like a gold field for these here. Julian Edited 28 January , 2023 by trajan remove double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 28 January , 2023 Share Posted 28 January , 2023 Nice early M1903 contract piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 28 January , 2023 Share Posted 28 January , 2023 Trajan, I notice that the scabbard hook is stamped with a cross inside a circle, above the OE/WG. Is that a symbol of ownership by Greek government? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 28 January , 2023 Share Posted 28 January , 2023 Most probably simplifyed coat of arms of Greece or the Greece Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 28 January , 2023 Share Posted 28 January , 2023 Nice one Julian👍😎...... still need one with george & dragon pommel marking myself mate 😫 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 28 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2023 1 hour ago, JMB1943 said: Trajan, I notice that the scabbard hook is stamped with a cross inside a circle, above the OE/WG. Is that a symbol of ownership by Greek government? Regards, JMB It is the Greek version of a 'cross crosslet', which in the Latin type has small crosses arranged at right-angles to each arm, but in the Greek version has a small cross at the end of each arm. I have only ever seen it on these Y1903 bayonet scabbards, so can only assume it is an official ownership mark Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 28 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2023 1 hour ago, sawdoc34 said: Nice one Julian👍😎...... still need one with george & dragon pommel marking myself mate 😫 Thanks mate! On the plus side you have an officially-marked original Y1903 scabbard, rare than the bayonets! This is only my second one, most of my other Greek Y1903's being in regular OEWG scabbards, and one in a Turked scabbard of some kind. I must dig them out from storage as my other original scabbard has an original frog as well! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 29 January , 2023 Share Posted 29 January , 2023 Nice find there Julian! I am sorely lacking any of those, only Greek’s ( kind of) are those 3 Turkish or Italian made, long “T” backs. Would these Y1903 bayonets be the bayonet used as the basis for the Mannlicher M.95 series bayonet? I know a lot different guard/ ring types, but look pretty much the same to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 29 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2023 (edited) Hi Steve, they are certainly related. The German S.71/84 seems to have set the pattern for knife bayonets, quickly copied by other countries, with the British P.1888, the A-H M.95, the Swedish M.1896, the Greek Y.1903, etc.. As far as I can establish the idea came from the need to reduce the weight of stuff the soldier was carrying, but then the big boys, fixated on Napoleonic War-type tactics, demanded bayonets long enough to serve as pikes when mounted on a rifle and so dismount cavalrymen... Julian Edited 29 January , 2023 by trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 29 January , 2023 Share Posted 29 January , 2023 (edited) M1895 is much earlier as the M1903, the greek M1903 is a copy of M1895 only with higher barell ring and smaller MRD. Interestingly Julian Your piece was complete painted brown? is that a typical covering by greece? Edited 29 January , 2023 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 29 January , 2023 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2023 46 minutes ago, AndyBsk said: M1895 is much earlier as the M1903, the greek M1903 is a copy of M1895 only with higher barell ring and smaller MRD. Interestingly Julian Your piece was complete painted brown? is that a typical covering by greece? Thanks AndyB. I'll have to check on the colour when I can find the others I have - all put away to create space for my younger son when COVID came along and still hiding away... Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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