kmad Posted 27 January , 2014 Share Posted 27 January , 2014 Hi all I recently acquired the remnants of a IRA arms dump from the war of independence, 1919-22 Home made grenades,shotgun bayonet,Mills grenade, P08 ammunition pouches etc. Mixed in with the lot was the top of an SMLE with the wood gone,looks like it was burned, but left remaining was a crude bayonet attached to the gun Has any one seen anything like this before and would it be ok to post pictures If this is off topic I understand and please delete Regards to all Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 27 January , 2014 Share Posted 27 January , 2014 Please post the pictures - it would be interesting to see. Who knows what it is until we have a look ... and if it fits a SMLE than it can't be too far off topic, can it.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmad Posted 27 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2014 Hi Here are some images of the bayonet in question overall blade length is 37cm in triangular shape Pics are large so i will post individually ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmad Posted 27 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2014 Overall picture I have included IRA hand grenade and a mills grenade which were found in same dump IRA grenade is very rough casting but a rare enough item in its own right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmad Posted 27 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2014 Locking mechanism, no springs at all just wedged. I have not, nor will i try and remove as it is just a scrap of steel if taKen off gun remenants I won't even clean it to remove rust as it is quiet solid last image hope this diversion is within rules interesting item and glad to have picked it up Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 27 January , 2014 Share Posted 27 January , 2014 Bayonets are not my speciality, Ken, but this is certainly an interesting puzzle. Were 'proper' bayonets hard to come by? And what would the IRA want with a bayonet anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmad Posted 27 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2014 Good question I can't really compose a propper answer so I will go with a few facts about the 1900's IRA weapons The IRA also made single barrel shotgun bayonets, again very simple in manafacture being made of a knife held onto the barel with wing nuts, i have one of these also but will be unable to get to it for a while. During the 1916 rising some of the men went into Dublin armed only with pikes (up against artillery and vickers) so lance weapons were taught useful even in urban fighting also I guess a lot of the IRA were ex british service men and I having a bayonet gave a certain completeness to the rifle. Everything was in short supply and if it could be home manafactured it was, some 1907 bayonets obviously would have been stolen from the British army but lacking this make them yourselves? No answers to your good question just some points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 27 January , 2014 Share Posted 27 January , 2014 It's certainly a very rudimentary "home-made style" of spike bayonet fashioned similar to the old socket bayonets, probably knocked together in a local blacksmith's workshop. From what I gather bayonets were definitely in short supply, as were the rifles in enough numbers. I know the German rifles that were landed needed bayonets modified to suit. There was another recent thread concerning the Irish use of some early Mauser rifles during this time, which I will try to locate. It provides a good overview of the situation HERE PS. This is the more informative thread HERE which I was looking for, but the other had the nice photo.! (You will need to scroll down to the section concerning the UVF rifles) Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 27 January , 2014 Share Posted 27 January , 2014 S>S and the bayonet aficionados will tell you all there is to know about 'real' and improvised bayonets, Ken, but I'm just intrigued to know that the IRA at that time evidently envisaged closing with their enemy to 'hand-to-hand' range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmad Posted 27 January , 2014 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2014 Hi SS (thanks for the link) and Siege Gunner The Irish war of independence is v unusual in the reports . It seems to have been very brutal in some areas Cork/Kerry/Clare/Limerick, with very brutal ambushes and land mines being the mode of operations but not too bad in other areas. A lot of hold ups of soldiers and army baracks just took place to steal guns and ammunition and then the soldiers tied up and left to be found by others I guess it is easier to intimidate someone with a bayonet than a rifle as you know they can stab you without alerting friendly forces I also have a mauser 71 bayonet that was found in a ex IRA mans attic, but that is a standard enough weapon and may have been part of the Howth landed weapons The seller of the above bayone thas some more weapons including an italian Vetterli which i am hoping to purchase but we will see soon enough but i would like to keep all the items together thanks for your interest and taughts Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 25 January , 2020 Share Posted 25 January , 2020 (edited) I have a rare bayonet its a german 1887 but made by austria-hungary for the ira only a few thousand where made it also has a symbol posibly a brigade it a arch with a p. Its very simmiliar to a mp38 bayonet i think. I also have a common enough french bayonet its like a plus sign and its is very long. Any info on the ira one would be fantastic. Edited 25 January , 2020 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 25 January , 2020 Share Posted 25 January , 2020 Hi Aga. Welcome to the forum. After a few more posts you will be able to post some pics. In the meantime, the IRA and Austro Hungary existed at different times so the story of your bayonet needs further investigation. Not least because European nations didn't make bayonets specifically for the Irish Independence participants. The Volunteers got what was available. Your item may well have a connection, but only in the same way that obsolete Mauser rifles and ammo were landed at Howth and Vetterlis at Larne and are part of the history. I look forward to seeing pics of the bayonet. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 26 January , 2020 Share Posted 26 January , 2020 Aga is it the Irish Mannlicher bayonet you have? http://www.irishbayonets.com/mannlicher.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLD ROBIN HOOD Posted 26 January , 2020 Share Posted 26 January , 2020 Greetings from The Royal Hunting Forest of Sherwood. I think that this is a really interesting bayonet which any collector should be glad to own. It is made in the tradition of the German and Austro-Hungarian ersatz bayonets of WW1 . There is no doubt that the IRA were under-equipped and obviously needed all that they could get. Whether or not they were involved in close quarter fighting they certainly needed to be prepared for it. To my mind an empty rifle with a bayonet attached is a lot better than an empty rife without one. Assuming that some ex British service men joined the ranks of the IRA they would have been trained in the use of the bayonet. The bayonet certainly came into IRA thinking as can be seen in the popular Republican song 'The Merry Ploughboy' aka 'The Jolly Ploughboy'. We're off to Dublin in the green in the green Where the helmets glisten in the sun Where BAYONETS flash and rifles clash To the echoes of a Thompson Gun. Just my opinion. Old Robin Hood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 26 January , 2020 Share Posted 26 January , 2020 The bayonets and helmets were British Mr Hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLD ROBIN HOOD Posted 26 January , 2020 Share Posted 26 January , 2020 Greetings From Sherwood ( again ) Where in the Merry Ploughboy does it say that the bayonets and helmets were British ? The Thompson gun certainly wasn't . Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 26 January , 2020 Share Posted 26 January , 2020 Okiedokie Robin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now