1871 Mauser Rifle

[Khaki]

What do we really know about the model 1871 Mauser (long rifle). I know the Askari generally carried the Jager model 1871 but what of the rifle? I understand that they probably were used in Africa and elsewhere by German Great War units but there appears to be nothing definitive, Any answers??

khaki

[Cnock]

The Mauser 1871/84 (also in cal. 11mm) was used bij Kaiserliche Marine and Landwehr/Landsturm during WW1.

The Mauser 1871 seems to be used for taking studio photographs.

regards,

Cnock

[Michael Haselgrove]

The best source of information on this subject of which I am aware are Vols I and II of German Military Rifles by Dr. Dieter Storz and published (in English) by Verlag Militaria www.militaria.at . They are expensive but well worth the money if you have a particular interest in the subject and funds stretch to it.

Briefly, it is worth noting that huge numbers of M.71 and M.71/84 rifles had been sold by Germany prior to 1914, mainly to China but also to a number of countries in South America, etc. etc. It was official policy not to sell the rifles at home, it appears for fear of revolution. There were thus fewer of the M/71 and M71/84 rifles in store than might be expected.

The official German account records that at the beginning of the war there were only 467,000 black powder rifles of all sorts in store. There was an acute shortage of the M/98 rifles and the older black powder firearms, mainly the M/71 and not as might be supposed the M71/84, were quickly put to use. In November 1914 the Prussian War Ministry ordered that replacement troops were to be issued with M/71 rifles for target and drill purposes. The same month 72 new infantry field battalions were formed making up the XXV111 - XXXI Army Corps. Before going to the front they had to be trained and they were issued with M/71 rifles for that purpose. A shortage of the old rifles developed and veteran's associations, which had been permitted to purchase the old rifles since 1909, were required to return them.

In the occupation army M/71 firearms were not only used by replacement formations but by others such as guards and garrison troops. In the field army the M/71 was not carried by combat troops. However, some troops in the rear, such as train troops involved with supply, carried the M71 and M71/84 rifles. Gradually as more modern rifles, including captured rifles, became available the older rifles were withdrawn.

The above very brief/incomplete comments, which I hope are of interest, are taken exclusively from Dr. Storz's books and much more detail is to be found there.

Regards,

Michael H.

[Khaki]

Many thanks Cnock and Michael H,

The M1871 in 1914 was already obsolete times two, yet it still managed to 'soldier on' in one form or another as I suppose the Martini Henry did in limited fashion. I have tried to find images of the M1871 in use during the Great War, but have found nothing todate in my library.

thanks again

khaki

[shippingsteel]

I have tried to find images of the M1871 in use during the Great War, but have found nothing todate in my library.

Does this count.? Recent thread linked HERE (definitely in use during the GW but certainly not by the usual suspects)

Cheers, S>S

[Khaki]

Thanks S>S.

Yes, a very good clear image.

khaki

[dman]

Mauser 1871 were used extensively by both sides in the Irish nationist struggles

Some 9000 Mausers were smuggled in April 1914 by the Ulster volunteers (along with Austrian Mannlichers and Italian Vetterli) to arm their partisans as protest against Irish Home Rule bills in Parliament

In response the Irish Volunteers smuggled some 900 Mausers in July 1914, just days before outbreak of war

These were popularly known as Howth rilfes from place where landed - used during the Easter Rebellion of 1916

The Ulster volunteer rifles wetre latter used to arm Home Guard units in WWII

The French Gras 1874 rifles of similar vintage were used French Territorial units and road guard detechments - equivalent

to the German Landsturm reserve units

*Most of the 820,000 Gras rifles available in 1914 went to the territorials and road-guards, and these were maintained until the end of the war. Additionally, 26,630 model 1884 and 1885 rifles were distributed to train squadrons, medical assistants, customs officers, forest rangers, and to some older reservists upon their arrival at barracks; 3,500 model 1878 rifles went to the Paris fire-fighters and to the Republican Guard; 13,000 additional Gras rifles went to the garrison at Madagascar. 146,000 model 1874 M. 80 rifles will be transformed into 8 mm rifles by replacing the original barrel with one similar to that of the Lebel. These are referred to as the model 1874/80 M. 14. This transformation program will take place from November 1914 to October 1915, when it is abruptly called off. As early as January 1915, 39,000 model 1874/80 M. 14 rifles had been sent up to the zone of the armies. In 1915, 450,000 were sent to Tsarist Russia. The remaining stocks of Gras rifles (all models) were either transformed into flare-launching guns or sold off to foreign private firms.

[Khaki]

Excellent information.

thank you

khaki

[Khaki]

One further question, the 1871 Mauser in it's role as the 'Howth' rifle, was it identifiable as an Irish weapon by markings as some of the Boer mausers??

khaki

[wyliecoyote]

What do we really know about the model 1871 Mauser (long rifle). I know the Askari generally carried the Jager model 1871 but what of the rifle? I understand that they probably were used in Africa and elsewhere by German Great War units but there appears to be nothing definitive, Any answers??

khaki

Khaki, Gewehr 71 was widely used during World War One, from recruit training to sentry duty with units not operating on the front lines. Believe it or not, there were more Gewehr 71's in service than Gewehr 71/84 during the war. For example this fellow here, who does not happen to be a Landsturm troop. This is sentry Gefreiter Harold Mull bundled up in his lambs wool mantel in his schilderhaus and is armed with an obsolete single shot Gewehr 71. He is from Flak Ers. Abtlg., 3 Batterie, (Flak Gruppe) Frankfurt am Main, posted 3 April 1917. Flak Gruppe were formed/renamed in April 1917 (for homeland Anti - Aircraft defense) and were part of the Flieger troops and usually don't show up in most TO&Es (Table of Organization and Equipment). The photo was sent to Ulan Eugen Röltgen / Ulanen Regiment 7. Ersatz Eskadron / Saarbrücken 3. The postcard reads:

Dear Eugen,

Finally I come to write you again and for each card thank you. I walked around very much lately. Every few days had I a new address. I will be home 21 April if even possible.

Friendly greeting Harold

This is a good illustration that these old rifles were still in use in 1917. The Imperial Army was never able to catch up Gewehr 98 production to the point that all troops were armed with them.

[Khaki]

Hello wyliecoyote,

Thanks for the great photo and interesting information in support, it's great how photo's like yours can expand our knowledge in area's otherwise neglected.

khaki

[wyliecoyote]

You're welcome!

Another more traditional view of a Landsturm man from an undated photo of an unidentified unit. The building in the background may be a barracks for POW's, but that is strictly a guess on my part. He is also armed with Gewehr 71.

[wyliecoyote]

One last example, recruits of the 161 Infantry Regiment (10. Rheinisches Infanterie Regt., Duren, II Btn Eschweiler, III Btn Julich) IX Armee Korps. This early war photo was cancelled 11 Feb. 1915, and was more than likely taken in 1914, judging by the weather depicted in the photo. The drill instructor is at center wearing the pre-war dunkelblau waffenrock. All the rekruten were armed with Gew 71 rifles, which originally were replaced by the Gew 71/84 repeater starting in the mid-1880's. Gew 71 was a single shot, 11mm black powder cartridge rifle first issued in 1872. So many of these old rifles were pulled out of storage for use during the Great War.

[Khaki]

Great research. thanks again

khaki

[rob elliott]

Hi,

A lot of references to 'Mauser' in relation to UVF arms are actually GEW88 [not the 05 conversion].

The Larne gun run was 24,400 rifles [even the gun runner Crawford couldn't remember how many he had brought in he had to ask Bruno Spiro in the 30's when writing his memoirs. Spiro gave the number off receipts].

There were 1904 Mannlicher, GEW88 & Vetterli's, with 2 million rounds of ammo.

Steyr's, Gew88 and Mauser's were brought in by other routes too.

The total number is completely unknown.

Rob

[Khaki]

Hi Rob,

I imagine that the arms and ammo were divided up amongst different units, some being armed with 88's others with Vetterlis and so on.

khaki

[rob elliott]

Khaki,

On the night of the Larne gun run every UVF regiment was instructed to turn up at their allocated place, Larne, Bangor, Donaghadee in order to receive their allocation.

How the weapons were divided is unknown, in fact logistically it would have been very difficult to sort these weapons on the quayside during the night, so i can only assume that between HQ & gunrunner, Fred Crawford that the allocation was pre-set before they arrived. The paperwork for this does not appear to have survived and many historians have said the outer counties, Donegal, Monaghan & Cavan got a poorer selection of weapons, being given the Italian rifles which were older.

There were 73 battalions in the UVF,plus horse & the YCV. The Enniskillen Horse was already armed & possibly the YCVso on the assumption each of the 73 Btns got an equal share that would make 334 per Btn. However we do know from some surviving paperwork thatFermanagh got 300 rifles which is not even one Btn worth.

So the distribution was not even.there are various 'returns' in the public records office Belfast but these appear to be incorrect, where-by many regiments were saying they had less weapons in order to get more from HQ.

It was the regiments responsibility to arm itself initially, 1913. Larne [1914] was a complicated affair, in that it served a number of different purposes for different people, politically.

One of the biggest myths re-circulated by current historians is of 'the hated' Vetterli's. This story seems to have been generated by a Btn of the Fermanagh regiment which said it didn't want them & wanted to swop for single shot lever action Martini Enfields. This is without them having fired the weapon.

Col McCammon, HQ regimental liason officer stated to the C.O. Charles Falls [father of historian Cyril Falls-who was also an officer in this btn] that he had fired both weapons and that the Vetterli was a superior weapon, but he bowed to their request as Falls was adamant they would not use the Vetterli.

I know i would rather have a magazined 5 shot bolt action rifle capable of shooting 600 yds than a single shot carbine that might do 300.

I have seen UVF Vetterli's and they are a beautiful rifle. My [de-activated] UVF Martini Enfield was originally an 1874 Martini Henry re-barrelled so the mechanics of the gun were 40 years old.

I also have a de-activated GEW88 & a Vetterli, both in poor condition, but stamped UVF. The Vetterli is un-recognisable due to being in the damp, but the stock carries a large UPG [ulster Provisional Government] stamp which makes it a bit rarer.

More weapons were imported before Larne than bought in that night, so the distribution of weapons was un-even.This was tried to be corrected by a request from HQ [they could not give an order to a regiment to hand over weapons] to swop with neighbouring counties to sort the situation and this does appear to have been done in some instances.

I have seen a picture of some UVF men with SMLE's. they also had long Lee Enfield's and a few Winchester repeating rifles, carried over from previous Home Rule periods.

Londonderry City had -3rd Btn had Long Lee Enfield's, 2nd Btn Martini Enfield's and 1st Btn look to be either GEW88 or Steyr's [file says 'german'].

One of the amazing things is the number of revolvers. Police reports from 1913 say every Unionist, even young boys carries a revolver in Londonderry City and there are some files which read 'no trouble to report just rival crowds firing revolvers at each other'. But virtually no one gets hit, just 'cowboy' shooting.

Talk about 'laid back' policemen though.

Rob

[jonathanb2701]

Rob,

this is another one of your informitive and very readable studies on the background of the Ulster Volunteers, and their armaments.

{ your postbox seems to be full recently }

[Khaki]

Hi Robb,

Fascinating details, love to see photo's of your rifles with the UPG markings. Thank you

khaki

ps. wasn't Steyr one of the manufacturers of the Gewehr 88?

[rob elliott]

Khaki,

Yes, if i recall correctly [without my book] the rifle was comissioned for the German army as the GEW88 'Commission' to be made by a sort of co-operative of companies. However due to demand the govenment approached Steyr to make them under licence. The co-operative threatened legal action, so Steyr paid a commission to the co-opeative on each rifle to allow them to continue.

The Stock of the Vetterli with an unusually large UVF catouche and the UPG stamp.

Rob

[Khaki]

Thanks again Rob,

a little bit hard to recognise, as I have never seen one, however I will go through my books and see if I can locate a diagram.

regards

khaki

[rob elliott]

Khaki,

The picture is not brilliant. Unfortunately the rifle is with my cousin so can't get a close up.

The UVF Stamp is the large one and it says 'UVF For God And Ulster' around the edge with the 'red' hand in the middle. And the Ulster Provisional Government stamp is a shield with the letters UPG and a 'red' hand.

I have not seen a UVF stamp that large myself before. The main rifle stamp dies still exist and are in the Ulster Museum. Each regiment was issued the stamps for two weeks to do all their rifles and bayonets the stamp was supposed to be made 2'' from the butt on the bolt side.

The UPG stamps are random, i don't think anyone can confirm their source or date of stamp.

Rob

Rob

[Khaki]

Thanks Rob for the additional information, especially that the dies still exist, be good to get a photo of them, I did locate a very good hand drawn illustration of the stamp (UVF)

regards

khaki

[TonyE]

Here is a clearer cartouche on a Vetterli.

Regards

TonyE

[JSAfrika]

The Askari carried the M71 in East Africa as well as in Togo and Cameroon. The Baster and the Cameroonian Companies in German South West Africa also carried them, but they were never engaged against the Allied forces. The Landwehr and Landsturm in DSWA often carried the Gew 88, but I have found M71/84 cartridges at a couple of WW1 battlefield sites (??) in SWA.

That said, the 1913 mobilization documents for the Schutztruppe in GSWA show only the Gew 98 and S-Gew 98 on hand. That document does not appear to include the home guard troops, however.

Top Photo: Cameroon Company GSWA 1914

Bottom: Baster Company GSWA circa 1913/14