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2li

3/4th Battalion, Queens Royal West Surrey Regt.

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2li

hi

can any member help me with the regimental history for the 3/4th Battalion, Queens Royal West Surrey Regt I am trying to piece together the days leading up to the death of Private John Jones, (T/204965) a member of this battalion who died on the 23 June 1917, I would like to know if the Queens were in action on that date or in the trenches

if any member with an interest in the Queens Royal West Surrey regt especeially the 3/4 battalion, and can help me with the days of the 22-23-24 June I would be most grateful

many thanks Phil

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2li

Jim

this link comes up as an error can you help further

cheers PHIL

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Jim Hastings

Sorry Phil, not sure what happened there as I double checked it after I posted it for you ... maybe it times out. Luckily Graeme was there to square it away. Hope it helps your quest, Jim

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2li

Thank you Graeme

for the war diaries unfortunatly nothing for early June 1917 available on the index

also thank you Jim any idear where to proceed from here

cheers PHIL

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Jim Hastings

You could try PMing 'Bootneck' on the forum, know he has been looking into the RWSR along with the East Surreys

Got a feeling Richard Holmes mentions the war of 3/4th Queen's in his book 'Tommy', I will check later for you if you like

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2li

Thanks Jim that would be great, thought I mention on the day of John Jones death he was one of two men killed with the 3/4 battalion on the 23 June this is from soldiers died so not a big attack maybe shell fire or sniper incidents

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Jim Hastings

Ah, was going to suggest this too

http://www.amazon.co.uk/History-Queen-Royal-Surrey-Regiment/dp/1843425394/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1388779555&sr=1-1&keywords=royal+west+surrey+regiment

But not sure if that will fit the bill either ...

Surrey History Centre maybe able to advise you?

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2li

cheers Jim

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Hambo

Hi Jim

In case you come across it I have a copy of the "unofficial history" of the three 4th Battalions, had a quick look but the only detail is two days before (21st June) when they lost their CO Colonel Hooke to shell fire while "proceeding to the front line near the ill fated chemical works at Rouex". He was part of a small group from C Company who sound like they were moving up for a recce prior to a stint in the trenches your man was killed in.

Not much but hope it helps a little

Best John

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Jim Hastings

Hi John,

Phil was after the original info, but thank you very much, I never realised there was an "unofficial history" of the 4th Bn, is it readily available? Know a lot of them were originally Croydon men (my home town), and I finished my service time at their old barracks, so like to keep tabs on their war

All the best

Jim

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Hambo

I picked it up years ago but did see a copy on Turner Donovan's list recently. It reads like it was published for old comrades as there are lots of anecdotes, nicknames etc and it doesn't tend to dwell on the fighting too much. Covers all three battalions with a bit on the 2/5th.

Written by Capt Ronald Bannerman MC published in 1931 by H.R. Grub of Croydon

Hope you find what you're after

All the best John

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dwan

Hope you don't mind me sticking my nose in - and please excuse my ignorance. I'm new to the forum and WWI, so be gentle! :thumbsup:

I'm trying to find out about the gent shown in my profile pic: George Charles Dwan. Unusual name so thought it might have stuck in the mind. Royal West Surreys, but I don't know which battalion or even how to find this information without making a trip to Kew. I do know from his Medal Card obtained from the National Archives a few years back his number (5805) and rank (corporal), and from information from another forum that he was at Loos, the Somme, Arras... He won the Military Medal and was later in the RAF.

Not wishing to hijack the thread, I include a link to the one started on my behalf by the lovely 'liverpool annie' way back, when I wasn't able to register. All the details are there. http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=35533#entry2035721

Many thanks in advance for helping point me in the right direction,
Vic

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Jim Hastings

Hi Vic,

John (Hambo) will be able to direct you better no doubt, but with Loos, Somme and Arras rings awfully like 2nd Bn, 22nd then 91st Bde, 7th Div or 6th Bn, 37th Bde, 12th Division to me. The Medal Roll would indicate.

All the best with your search

Jim

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dwan

Thanks so much, Jim. Much appreciated.

I need to dig out some CDs to check the National Archives PDF I downloaded a few years back, as all I have to hand at the moment are scribbled notes. But I can add that he volunteered in May 1915, was twice wounded (on one occasion, he lost a finger), served in the retreat and advance of 1918 - and I left St Eloi, Vimy Ridge and Bullecourt off the above list.

All the best to you,

Vic

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Jim Hastings

Ah, with his wounds he may have been sent to different battalions of the Queen's on recovery, so the Medal Roll would be the best bet, won't give you dates of the moves between Bns (if there were any), but will tell you which Bn, Vic

What a brave man, you must be very proud

All the best with your search, I hope you find all you seek on him

Jim

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dwan

:) Very proud. He was my great-grandfather and he was fortunate to live to a ripe old age, passing away in 1984.

Tragic, though, that after all the horror he'd experienced in WWI and such tremendous loss of life all around him, he'd lose two sons in WWII (one serving in the RAF, one killed during the Blitz). What must he have thought?

And what a list you have there! So many killed in action; just boys, many of them, I imagine. Heartbreaking, isn't it?

My thanks again for your help (and apologies for my continued hijacking of this thread),

Vic... looking for that CD...

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dwan

Thanks for thinking of me, Jim! Funnily enough, I've been going through the diaries today.

I'd love to know why/when George won a MM, but I still don't know which battalion he was in. I found my CD and looked again at his medal card, but there's no battalion mentioned and no MM either, although I have seen the announcement in the London Gazette.

Am I missing something obvious, other than requesting his service records from the MoD, if I can? I'm puzzled because the information provided about where he served came from someone helping me on another forum several years ago and, come to think of it, I don't know where they got this information.

I can find nothing at the British Newspaper Archive.

Fingers crossed that Hambo will be interested in this one.

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Phil Evans

Doesn't Discovery make it hard these days! It used to be so easy to pick out the MM MICs (which are not on Ancestry) from the campaign medal cards.

This is his MM MIC, I believe - click here

Phil

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Jim Hastings

Vic,

Think you need to refer to the Medal Rolls at Kew and using the reference from the Medal Index card to track his Bn (or Bns) that way, then you will know how to proceed

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Jim Hastings

Doesn't Discovery make it hard these days! It used to be so easy to pick out the MM MICs (which are not on Ancestry) from the campaign medal cards.

This is his MM MIC, I believe - click here

Phil

Nice one Phil, brilliant

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Jim Hastings

Just dug up his MIC, Vic, looks like he did not deploy to the front until after 1915, so he was not at Loos I'm afraid Vic (well not the Sept/Oct 1915 battle, may have served in trenches there)

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dwan

Thanks to you both. I vaguely remember there being two medal index cards available when I started researching a few years back. I thought it must have been an error or useless duplicate that would add nothing. Looks like I paid to download the one I can now view for free at Ancestry via the library. Typical!

I'm waiting on the National Archives to tell me how much it will cost to digitise these for download, as I can't get to Kew just yet and it could well be quicker and cheaper than visiting, considering the cost of train fare these days.

Back to my scribbled notes, I believe he volunteered in May 1915.

Thanks again,

Vic

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