Football match & The Christmas Truce 1914

[John_Hartley]

I stand ready to be corrected.....

Seaforths it is then, Pete.

The LLT indicates that, of 15th Brigade, only 6th Cheshires and 1st Norfolks took part. As the Cheshires were "divvied out" to the other battalions, that means it is only "C" Company which took part , as they were the Norfolk attachment.

[ICM - RAF Retd]

I'm interested to hear something on the supply of footballs to the the line. I've come across a story concerning Captain Ivelaw-Chapman, a Flight Commander on No 10 Squadron towards the end of the war, who got airborne shortly before 1100 hours on 11 November 1918 with an odd bump showing under his coat. As the clock passed 1100, he passed low in front of the British lines and dropped a football that was seized by the nearest troops and a game was started. So possibly one of Mr McCartney's balls?

[centurion]

I'm interested to hear something on the supply of footballs to the the line. I've come across a story concerning Captain Ivelaw-Chapman, a Flight Commander on No 10 Squadron towards the end of the war, who got airborne shortly before 1100 hours on 11 November 1918 with an odd bump showing under his coat. As the clock passed 1100, he passed low in front of the British lines and dropped a football that was seized by the nearest troops and a game was started. So possibly one of Mr McCartney's balls?

MMM - fishy - wouldn't a football dropped from an aircraft at say about 100 mph bounce an awful long way from where it was dropped? That's asuming it didn't burst on impact.

[ICM - RAF Retd]

MMM - fishy - wouldn't a football dropped from an aircraft at say about 100 mph bounce an awful long way from where it was dropped? That's asuming it didn't burst on impact.

I'd have wondered about the provenance had it not involved the officer himself, then recently retired in the 1950s as Vice Chief of Air Staff. And I'd assume he was headed towards a trench line rather than parallel to it to take account of any forward throw issues. In my Argosy days in the 1960s we had many items survive free-dropping from less than 100 feet at circa 120 knots, so I think a football with a bit of give could have survived.

[Ken Lees]

The 1st Rifle Brigade were in front of Ploegsteert Wood and their men took part in the truce. On Christmas Day, one of the battalion wrote in his diary, "We challenged them to a game of football. Their officers would not consent."

I have a photocopy of the diary.

[Jack Sheldon]

I have been dredging around a bit to see what I could turn up about this. There seems to be a general view that the Germans most likely to be involved were Saxons, so I have looked up 40th Inf Div. Of the four regiments, IR 181 states that the British opposite tried hard to get a truce going, 'but the effort was fiercely rejected'. IR 104 has nothing at all to say on the subject and IR 134 reports that there was a brief truce, but its only purpose was to bury the dead forward in No Man's Land.

However football fans, get this from IR 133 which moved into the line near Frelinghien during the night 24/25 Dec 14, which was 'a still, starry night'.

Johannes Niemann, who was probably a junior officer at the time, reported, 'About midday Seiss, my batman, came rushing down into the dugout and reported that out there, between the trenches, friend and foe were mingling ... I thought briefly, then decided to go forward ... and was soon in the middle of the crowd. Everywhere hands were shaken, The soldiers opposite us were Scotsmen. We then exchanged everything we had with us - tobacco, chocolate, schnaps, insignia and many other things ... then a Scotsman produced a football ... and a regular football match developed, with caps put down to mark the goals. There was no problem, because the meadow was frozen hard. One of us had a camera with him ... Quickly the footballers formed up into a single colourful group with the football at the centre ... The game ended 3-2 for Fritz. During the football our soldiers soon discovered that the Scots had no underpants beneath their skirts [sic.], so that rear views were clearly visible when the skirts flared up ... '

Jack

[SteveMarsdin]

Hi Jack,

That score-line ties in with David's post (#11).

I wonder if any photos survive..."One of us had a camera with him ...", or perhaps the cameraman spared the naked Scots their blushes !

[Jack Sheldon]

Sadly this rather poor shot taken through tripod binoculars is the only image relating to that Christmas in the IR 133 history and, as you can see, it could represent anything - or nothing.

Jack

[centurion]

Early afternoon in late December on a day when the ground is still frozen (suggesting no sunlight) with the quality of film available for portable cameras at that date I'd be surprised to get much better from the camera mentioned. I don't think those hardy Scots would have much to be embarrassed about

[Guest]

Not sure if they mention any " football match " but here are a few letters from Europeana that might be of interest?

Mike

Edit 22:07 It doesn't mention a football match, but it does mention the Germans asking for the latest football results.

[David Ridgus]

David, can you look at the map in Christmas Truce just to check that my suggestion above that there was a gap in participation just south of St Yvon by Ploegsteert Wood isn't the product of a fevered imagination? Thanks in anticipation.

Pete.

P.S. I really liked the quote about the two kinds of guides in the What WW1 Books Are You Reading thread. From my experiences taking my friends around the battlefields in September I'm firmly in category 2. The bit about timetables rings true too.

Apologies Pete, nightmare day at school, will definitely check tomorrow and post accordingly.

Glad you like the quotes. I know Beith is not to everybody's taste but I love his style. It's too long to quote in full in a post but his description of spring coming to the trenches is both laugh out loud and grim black humour at the same time ("Snipers, smiling cheerfully over the improved atmospheric conditions, polished up their telescopic sights"). You can see in that sentence alone why he went on to write plays with P G Wodehouse after the war.

David

[Fattyowls]

Apologies Pete, nightmare day at school, will definitely check tomorrow and post accordingly.

Glad you like the quotes. I know Beith is not to everybody's taste but I love his style. It's too long to quote in full in a post but his description of spring coming to the trenches is both laugh out loud and grim black humour at the same time ("Snipers, smiling cheerfully over the improved atmospheric conditions, polished up their telescopic sights"). You can see in that sentence alone why he went on to write plays with P G Wodehouse after the war.

David

David, absolutely no need to apologise; sorry to hear about your day. I'm sure this thread is not even into the second half and might even go to extra time and penalties (which the Germans are sure to win).

Pete.

P.S. I fear I am going to have to add Beith to my ever lengthening reading list.

[David Ridgus]

David, absolutely no need to apologise; sorry to hear about your day. I'm sure this thread is not even into the second half and might even go to extra time and penalties (which the Germans are sure to win).

Pete.

P.S. I fear I am going to have to add Beith to my ever lengthening reading list.

Pete

I attach a picture of the map from Brown and Seaton. It suggests there was a gap in the truce from Frelinghein down to just south of Armentieres.

The map also mentions the 3-2 football match between Saxons and Lancashire Fusiliers.

Although Brown and Seaton are broadly sceptical about how organised any events were they do admit that "...there are a sufficient number of references to games which allegedly took place for it to be difficult to believe that this is all smoke without fire; and, interestingly enough, most of the likely contenders happened on Christmas Day itself." They then quote the same German report that Jack did in post 31.

Stanley Weintraub's book, 'Silent Night' quotes a letter that seems to corroborate this. It came from "a major in the Medical Corps" and was published in the Times on 1 January 1915. It reported fraternisation, drinking and singing, following which his regiment "actually had a football match with the Saxons, who beat them 3-2!" Robert Graves records a soldier's memory agreeing with the scoreline, "They beat us 3-2" but then going on to embellish the story "but the Padre had shown too much Christian charity - their outside left shot the deciding goal, but he was miles offside and admitted it as soon as the whistle went." This last piece sounds a very Gravesian fictional twist but overall I think there's enough anecdotal evidence to lend some support to the no smoke without fire conclusion.

David

Edited 3 December , 2013 by ridgus

[Fattyowls]

I attach a picture of the map from Brown and Seaton. It suggests there was a gap in the truce from Frelinghein down to just south of Armentieres.

The map also mentions the 3-2 football match between Saxons and Lancashire Fusiliers.

Although Brown and Seaton are broadly sceptical about how organised any events were they do admit that "...there are a sufficient number of references to games which allegedly took place for it to be difficult to believe that this is all smoke without fire; and, interestingly enough, most of the likely contenders happened on Christmas Day itself." They then quote the same German report that Jack did in post 31.

Stanley Weintraub's book, 'Silent Night' quotes a letter that seems to corroborate this. It came from "a major in the Medical Corps" and was published in the Times on 1 January 1915. It reported fraternisation, drinking and singing, following which his regiment "actually had a football match with the Saxons, who beat them 3-2!" Robert Graves records a soldier's memory agreeing with the scoreline, "They beat us 3-2" but then going on to embellish the story "but the Padre had shown too much Christian charity - their outside left shot the deciding goal, but he was miles offside and admitted it as soon as the whistle went." This last piece sounds a very Gravesian fictional twist but overall I think there's enough anecdotal evidence to lend some support to the no smoke without fire conclusion.

David

David

This is brilliant; thank you. Now I come to look at the map it confirms a lot of stuff above. You are a prince amongst men.

Pete.

[Fattyowls]

The view SSW from Mesen over the fields in the general area where the Cheshires had the kick about on Christmas Day 1914. Ploegsteert Wood on left horizon and the road down to Hyde Park Corner crossing the photograph just below it. This would be the northern end of the area of the truces as the Mesen to Wulverghem passes the entrance to the NZ Memorial from where the photo was taken.

[Jim Hastings]

Nice photo Pete,

Not so much Christmas football, but more evidence of footballs in the frontline, from the reminiscences of Cecil Withers (ex East Surreys and 17th RF) " We played football together as we went over. That was a tradition in the East Surreys. I remember the ball dropping at my feet and I passed it to Captain Maxwell. "That was a good pass you made, young Withers" he shouted before he thumped it towards the German Lines". I know, as per warnings in the books from Richard Holmes, Peter Hart, others and posts from forum members, that the testimony of veterans needs to be handled with caution. More recently, I know of comrades taking footballs to places where, quite frankly, there wasn't room for one-a-side but they still managed a kick-about; plus on other impromptu occasions balls were swiftly fashioned to get a game going, so wonder how common it may have been that Christmas?

(From my focus, 2nd Sussex were at Le Hamel on hours notice to move on X**s Day, but were back in the trenches at Cambrin on the 26th and called up the guns to give a pesky German mortar some 'iron breakfast' - no fraternization)

But hope the Centenary rendition of it is not a remake of 'Escape to Victory' in puttees and picklehaubes!!

[Jack Sheldon]

I cannot confirm the 6 Cheshires kickabout, but would add that the truce west of Messines was considerably more extensive than just 6 Cheshires - and it occurred on days after 25 December as well as Christmas Day itself. The German account makes it clear from the specific naming of 1/Norfolk, 1/Devonshire and 2/Manchester that it involved both 14 and 15 Bdes of 5th Division and, just to confirm that 14 Bde was involved one of the German histories published a photograph of a despatch rider of 2 Manchester handed to a German soldier and inscribed, 'I wish you a Happy Christmas'.

Jack.

[depaor01]

Can't stand the game myself, but was researching the Christmas Truce matches and found this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1364909/Football-dribbled-WW1-No-Mans-Land-soldiers-unearthed.html

-Dave

[neverforget]

Is this a myth or did a kickabout take place?

Terry

It would appear that no football match took place after all......

[Guest]

I am quite late to this thread. While some of the war diaries do mention some fraternisation between the British and Germans, I have not seen any evidence that football was played between the British and the Germans. The most often cited example of a football game being played has been attributed to two eyewitness accounts from the 1/6th Cheshire Regt reported weeks later in the press.. This battalion had only joined the 15th Inf Bde eight days earlier. The Brigade included the 1st Bn Cheshire Regt as well as the 1st Bn Bedfordshire Regt, 1st Bn Norfolk Regt and 1st Devonshires Regt. Interestingly none of these regular battalions' war diaries in the 15th Inf Bde mention any football match:

15th Infantry Brigade:

1st Bn Devonshire Regt (15th Inf Bde)

25th Dec 1914. WULVERGHEM. Quiet day. Nothing to report. Casualties nil.

1st Bn Norfolk Regt (15th Inf Bde)

25th Dec 1914. (18th-28th Dec 1914) Remained in same trenches very bad and wet approach.

1st Bn Bedfordshire Regt (15th Inf Bde)

25th Dec 1914. Christmas cards from their Majesties the KING and QUEEN distributed to all ranks of the battalion. Also present from Her Royal Highness Princess Mary. Cold and frosty day. Germans semaphored over that they were not going to fire. Hard frost all day.

1st Bn Cheshire Regt (15th Inf Bde)

25th Dec 1914. NEUVE EGLISE. Brig Gen Count GLEICHEN KCVO inspected draft. Their majesties Presents and Xmas cards issued. Battalion in trenches as WULVERGHEM

And perhaps more tellingly:

1/6th Bn Cheshire Regt (attached to 15th Inf Bde)

25th Dec 1914: Casualties. 1 wounded.

So I suspect that the football match did not happen in the area in front of 1/6th Cheshire's trenches...... A trawl of the War diaries of the Infantry battalions in the 14th Inf Bde reveals very little. Generally a quite day, no recorded fraternisation and the references to football matches generally refer to games played by units in reserve;

14th Infantry Brigade:

2nd Bn Suffolk Regt (14th Inf Bde):

25th Dec 1914. In billets in WESTOUTRE. Xmas Day a draft of 82 men under 2 Lt SCHROADER arrived.

1st Bn DCLI (14th Inf Bde):

25th Dec 1914. Christmas Day. Every Officer, NCO & man present received a gift from Princess Mary, also a Christmas card from the King & Queen.

The day being rather misty apparently prevented any fighting taking place.

A football match was arranged with the 28th INF BDE ROYAL FIELD ARTILLERY Ammunition Column which resulted in a win for the A C by 2 goals to nil.

1st Bn East Surrey Regt (14th Inf Bde):

25th Dec 1914. DRANOUTRE. Hard frost during night with a freezing fog during day. Open air Divine Service for Battalion followed by the reading of the Brigadiers greeting to the Battalion which was heartily cheered and the distribution of Their Majesties' cards and Princess MARY's gifts. All were much qualified in being thus honoured.

2nd Bn Manchester Regt (14th Inf Bde):

25th Dec 1914. Firing line advanced 150 yards by digging at night. A quiet day in the trenches. Wounded 1 man.

The following telegrams were received:

"Congratulations & Good Wishes" 1st Bn MANCHESTER REGT

"Best wishes from All at Depot - ASHTON-UNDER-LYNE"

"Greetings from 1st CITY Bn, hope to be with you soon" - Commanding

The following message was received from Maj Gen W O BARNARD, Col 2nd Bn MANCHESTER REGT.

"I wish you & all ranks of the 2nd Bn MANCHESTER REGT a very Happy New Year & many of them. God Bless you all my dear MANCHESTER lads & remember we at home in ENGLAND, in LANCASHIRE & MANCHESTER are ever thinking of you. We grieve to read of good comrades departed but we rejoice & thrill with pride at every record of victory, at every instance of brave & courageous deeds performed by the Regiment or by any one of you individually."

13th Infantry Brigade;

2nd Bn KOYLI (13th Inf Bde):

25th Dec 1914. XMAS DAY. Hard frosty morning. Battalion rested in Billets at ST JANS CAPPEL. In afternoon a Football Six-A-Side Competition was held and was won by A Coy. After this the Officers played the Sergeants . A Draft of 92 Rank and File under command of Capt MARTIN joined the Battalion.

1st Bn Queen's Own Royal West Kent (13th Inf Bde):

25th Dec 1914. ST JANS CAPPEL. [XMAS DAY. A hard frost during the night which continued during the day. The Rev FOX conducted divine service at the Battalion HQ farm]. The majority of the men who were inoculated suffered considerably [and remained quiet].

2nd Bn Duke of Wellington's Regt (West Riging Regt) (13th Inf Bde):

25th Dec 1914. RAVETSBERG. CO visited Companies. Distribution of PRINCESS MARY'S gifts and KING and QUEEN'S Xmas cards. Maj E G HARRISON proceeded on leave. Arrangements made for inoculation.

However, the 1st Bn KOSB (13th Inf Bde) records

25th Dec 1914. ST JANS CAPPEL. Rest. PRINCESS MARY'S Gifts of an ornamental box containing cigarettes and tobacco and a pipe and a card of good wishes given out to every man in France. Also a Xmas card, with a portrait of HM KING George V and of the QUEEN and their good wishes is issued as a surprise to every man.

Ration strengths of Coys - A 182, B 167, C 178, D 165 - 692: HQ 120 - 812.

Owing to the kindness of people at home great quantities of warm clothing, tobacco and eatables are issued to the troops. It is reported from the trenches that at various points during Xmas Eve and on Xmas Day, the Officers and men of the BAVARIAN LANDWEHR opposed to us in the portion of the line made overtures of peace for a Xmas holiday. These were very generally accepted. At one point a football match was played between the opposing sides. Food and tobacco were exchanged and the opposing sides visited each others trenches. The BAVARIANS were reported to be looking well fed and in a good state but in some cases in want of clothes. They are reported to have been in ignorance of the present state of affairs on the RUSSIAN border, to have been told that the Germans had won enormous victories there and that the war was to be over in a month. From hearsay evidence from Officers and others.

It is quite revealing that the only record in the unit diaries is one that is reported second hand i.e. the author did not witness the alleged game. I suspect stories have become mixed up here. Football games in the reserve areas have become intermingled in people's minds with the fraternisation. Unless any hard evidence comes out I remain skeptical. In particular I think the 1/6th Cheshires seems unlikely given it gets no mention in any unit diary, including its own diary.

12 Battalion records. 2 matches behind the lines and only one alleged match between the British and Germans, not witnessed by the author who makes the point that it is hearsay. Perhaps there is some confabulation.

MG

Edited.

Edit 2: I note that one of the sources in a previous post cites a game between a kilted regiments and the Germans. None of the Highland battalion unit war diaries mention playing the Germans. Regular or TF. The only possibility is the 1st Bn Gordon Highlanders as their war diary is missing for 25th Dec 1914.

2nd Bn Seaforth Highlanders:

25th Dec 1914. Hard frost, misty. Not a shot fired and we were able to walk about in the open even after the mist rose. Had some trouble in keeping the Germans away from our lines.

Put some more wire out and did a good deal of work by day.

[Guest]

I cannot confirm the 6 Cheshires kickabout, but would add that the truce west of Messines was considerably more extensive than just 6 Cheshires - and it occurred on days after 25 December as well as Christmas Day itself. The German account makes it clear from the specific naming of 1/Norfolk, 1/Devonshire and 2/Manchester that it involved both 14 and 15 Bdes of 5th Division and, just to confirm that 14 Bde was involved one of the German histories published a photograph of a despatch rider of 2 Manchester handed to a German soldier and inscribed, 'I wish you a Happy Christmas'.

Jack.

Jack

There is only a small amount of evidence of a truce and no evidence of fraternisation in the diaries of the 13th, 14th and 15th Inf Brigade units in the trenches on the day. There is stronger evidence in the diaries of the units diaries in 17th Inf Bde (6th Div). One cites the 139th Saxon Regt in particular which you might be able to check from the oter side of the wire. Ditto 1st Bn Hampshires (11th Inf Bde) opposite 133rd Saxon Regt. I will add more German units if I find them in my trawl of the diaries. edit. 1st Rifle Brigade mentions 133rd and 134th Saxon Regts

2nd Bn Leinster Regt (17th Inf Bde)

25th Dec 1914. L'EPINETTE. Christmas Day. Without previous arrangement but apparently by mutual consent, this has become a day of peace. No shots have been fired on our right or centre but on the left there has been a little hostile sniping. Our men have been digging outside and in front of their trenches, whilst the Germans have buried some dead that lay between the two lines. Later, some consultations between the two sides took place in the open, both Officers and men of each side being concerned. The enemy opposite us are the 139th SAXON REGT and consist largely of Landwehr and young soldiers. They appeared more numerous in the trenches than we are and an artillery Officer and some artillery Privates were with them. For the most party the men are small but of good physique and remarkably content and confident of victory.

Christmas cards from HM the King and HM the Queen and presents from HRH Princess MARY received and issued to the troops today.Hard frost again tonight.

Casualties, one man killed and three wounded by snipers opposite our left.

1st Bn Hampshire Regt (11th Inf Bde)

25th Dec 1914. (20th Dec 1914 - 31st Dec 1914). During this period nothing of importance occurred. The main trench is still flooded and the Company in occupation having to work night and day pumping and baling out the water.All casualties during this period caused by snipers.The houses at LE GHEER have been placed in a state of defence and are garrisoned each day.

Killed 4 other ranks

Wounded 2 Lt W BAY and 6 other ranks

Admissions to hospital during month 179 other ranks, Lt W BAY

Discharges from hospital during month 79 other ranks, 2 Lt H HEATHCOCKS

On Xmas Day an informal truce began with the 133rd SAXONS XIX CORPS opposite us and continued till the New Year.

1st Bn Somerset Light Infantry (11th Inf Bde)

25th Dec 1914. There was much sniping in the trenches last night by both sides. Germans opposite us brought up their Regimental Band and played theirs and our National Anthems followed by "Home Sweet Home". A truce was eventually arranged by the men in the trenches. During the morning, Officers met the German Officers half way between the trenches and it was arranged that we should bring in our dead who were lying between the trenches. The bodies of Capt MAUD, Capt ORR and 2 Lt HENSON were brought in, also those of 18 NCOs and men. They were buried the same day. The Germans informed us that they had captured and wounded an Officer and this was thought to be 2 Lt K G G DENNYS, who commanded one of the attacking Platoons of B Coy on the 19th Dec. There was a sharp frost last night which continued during the day and the weather was very seasonable. Not a shot or shell was fired by either side in our neighbourhood and both sides walked about outside their trenches quite unconcernedly. It afforded a good opportunity for inspecting our trenches by daylight. The enemy's works were noticed to be very strong. A very peaceful day.

1st Bn Rifle Brigade (11th Inf Bde)

25th Dec 1914. Everything extraordinarily quiet. German's came out of their trenches and met our people halfway; all friendly and helped collect each other's dead, no shooting. 133rd and 134th REGTS XIX SAXON CORPS are opposed to us. Their Majesties' Christmas card distributed. Starting on 24th Dec we now have one Company LONDON RIFLE BDE attached so that each Company does 4 days in the trenches, one day in support, 4 days in billets in PLOEGSTEERT, one day in support breastworks, 4 days in trenches, one day in support and 4 days in billets in ARMENTIERES where they get baths!

[Jack Sheldon]

Christmas Truce Messines.doc

Martin, Have a read of this. I have not attached the photo or the map, but the incidents occurred about 1,000 metres west of Messines. The modern roads and farms are still in the same locations.

Jack

[Guest]

Christmas Truce Messines.doc

Martin, Have a read of this. I have not attached the photo or the map, but the incidents occurred about 1,000 metres west of Messines. The modern roads and farms are still in the same locations.

Jack

Jack Thanks

Some nice detail. There is plenty of evidence that a truce took place in places right along the British front. I have (so far) around thirty unit diary entries that mention it, so there was no reluctance to report it in C 2118 (official Army forms for Diaries and Int reports). There seems little doubt given the detail in this account that it happened. It also seems to allude to 26th as well as the 25th unless I am reading it incorrectly? The 1st Bn Bedfordshires on 26th:

26th Dec 1914. Another quiet day. A little shelling by both sides. Some Germans came forward unarmed apparently with a view to friendly intercourse. A few shots fired in their direction as a point to withdraw. Later enemy shelled trenches but only wounded 1 man.

The other Battalion diaries are silent on the matter. It is really quite interesting how the German account can be so specific and yet the relevant British unit diaries don't mention it. The fact that they don't mention it of course does not mean it didn't happen (is that a double negative?). Anyway, thank you for sharing. One account mentions that the opposing sides had agreed to play on 1st Jan - from memory of living in Germany (17 years) the Germans put greater emphasis on the New Year. The diary does not mention if it happened.

I have another diary entry that mentions Brigade HQ issuing very strict orders on 26th to stop fraternising - still trying to locate the account.

To avoid confusion, I completely understand that a truce broke out along the line, but I remain skeptical about any football match. I would agree that a scoreline of 3-2 and consistent accounts that the Germans won is quite compelling. I would love to be proven wrong.

MG

[SteveGreen]

Whether or not the football actually took place it will be a major theme in the 1914 commemorations. Prince William no less is involved.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-27327162

[Guest]

Whether or not the football actually took place it will be a major theme in the 1914 commemorations. Prince William no less is involved.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-27327162

**groan***