Football match & The Christmas Truce 1914

[Terry Carter]

Is this a myth or did a kickabout take place?

Terry

[Guest RickOw]

According to the eyewitness accounts i can trace, a kick about definately did take place in one or more sections of the front. Hard work separating fact from fiction, but am in the process of trying to do so.

Any help appreciated.

R

[centurion]

Always wondered - where did the ball come from? Not something you would normally keep in a front line trench unless you'd already planned on something (like kicking it ahead in an assault) In the support line possibly and just behind the lines very likely,

[padnallwilson]

The official diary of the 3rd Battalion Rifle Brigade, PRO Ref: W095 Part 1613, states;

"Christmas in the trenches will always be remembered by the Battalion as a day of perfect peace during which by mutual consent both sides declared a truce. There are many interesting features on this Christmas Day not the keast of which was a German juggler who drew a large crowd of Riflemen and Germans in the middle of NO Man's Land"

[John_Hartley]

6th Cheshires have the truce well documented in their battalion history, although no mention of the football. Later statements by a couple of the troops confirm there was a kickabout, rather than a more formal match, with scores of blokes from both sides involved. Germans produced the ball.

[SteveMarsdin]

On a related note, isn't there supposed to be a "recreation" of that game as part of next year's commemorations ?

[centurion]

This is a small memorial to the "match" where it is supposed to have happened with many foot balls etc. Some people have attached their old season tickets to it (and with the way some teams are performing possibly their current ones)

[Stoppage Drill]

I suppose the Germans won on penalties . . . .

[John_Hartley]

According to Ernie Williams, speaking in 1983, there was "no tally at all".

There was, however, a set of goalposts - no doubt fashioned from the towels that the Germans were going to put on something to reserve it.

[Terry Carter]

Thanks for all your replies.

The reason I asked is because I went to a meeting the other day regarding what events Birmingham Council are planning to do to mark the various anniversaries over the next four years and a question of the Christmas Truce football match was asked and I told them it was most likely a ball was kicked around between a few from each side and not a proper game.

A young local radio reporter at the meeting said that she had heard a story that six Birmingham men were involved in a game !!

Oh dear! there is going to be some exaggerated stories emerge over the forthcoming months.

Terry

[David Ridgus]

A BBC programme on the Christmas Truce in the 'Days that shook the World' series included many of the stories already alluded to in this thread, including the juggling German and the football match. Although they portrayed it as between a large number of troops they did suggest a scoreline, 3 - 2 to the Germans. So no surprise there then!

It also portrayed joint burial services conducted simultaneously in English and German, as well as an exchange of gifts between officers recorded by Frank Richards.

David

[Scalyback]

Seen reference to tin cans being kicked about. Remember it does not have to be proper football to play the game in a soldiers mind. I have played with items wrapped in packing tape.

[roel22]

Always wondered - where did the ball come from? Not something you would normally keep in a front line trench unless you'd already planned on something (like kicking it ahead in an assault) In the support line possibly and just behind the lines very likely,

After 1914 more non-combat items were brought to the battlefield. Sergeant Ginger Green (4th parachute brigade) also took a football with him when he took off to take Arnhem bridge in september 1944.

And don't we all remember Myrtle the para chicken, who jumped off near Arnhem with lieutenant Pat Glover? Sadly she was KIA by mortar fire (no known grave).

Roel

[David Filsell]

Mind you she showed pluck

[keithfazzani]

By the time the "organisers" of the upcoming commemorations have finished I hate to think what it will have become. Some people of my acquaintance are already talking of the "commemorative" match as being the centerpiece of commemoration.

[generalist]

Is this a myth or did a kickabout take place?

Terry

The excellent Meetings in No-Man's Land (which does a very good job of putting the 1914 Christmas truces in context as a real event, and part of a wider group of trucing behaviour in the winter of 1914 and onwards) reports "a number of random, swiftly arranged matches, sometimes with caps for goals and scores kept ... while elsewhere they were just general melees with anyone who wanted to join in having a kick at the ball". A sharp frost just beforehand seems to have helped.

(Contemporary observers noted the number of soldiers taking footballs with them, and games (by both officers and men) were common behind the lines; having a ball in the front lines isn't particularly surprising.)

One interesting thing is that a lot of the eyewitness accounts of truces talk about someone suggesting or proposing a game of football that never eventually happened; it seems to have been a very widespread idea but which only came to fruition in a few places along the line.

Andrew.

[centurion]

(Contemporary observers noted the number of soldiers taking footballs with them, and games (by both officers and men) were common behind the lines; having a ball in the front lines isn't particularly surprising.)

Don't see the logical connection. What are you going to do with a football in the front line trench? Play keepyupy? dribbling round the bomb stops? Plenty of photographic evidence of both footballs and cricket bats just behind the line not aware of any in the front line trench except, as I said, when they were taken there for a very specific purpose (kicking across no mans land.

[Fattyowls]

A good summary of the football legends is contained here: http://www.christmastruce.co.uk/football.html

I would also commend The Christmas Truce by Malcolm Brown and Shirley Seaton both as an excellent accound of the truce and as a reference for the football matches. I've read but haven't got the book and I think I'm correct in saying that they find no compelling evidence for an organised game. While I was trying to confirm this from other sources I came across reference to a similar conclusion in Modris Ekstein's Rites of Spring: the Great War and the Birth of the Modern Age. There does seem to be evidence for at least one kick about which involved the 1/6th Cheshires; however they were in the line a bit north west of the area where the Khaki Chums cross is sited. This section of the line was held by the Royal Warwicks including Bruce Bairsfather who wrote one of the best accounts of the truce (but doesn't mention football if memory serves). I didn't know that it was the Bairsfather connection that resulted in the St Yvon cross being put up; the "blantantly daft" story is told here.

http://www.todayinliterature.com/today.asp?Search_Date=12/25/2012

Pete.

P.S. I know exactly what Centurion means when talking about wanting to discard a current season ticket; I've been there....

[centurion]

A good summary of the football legends is contained here: http://www.christmastruce.co.uk/football.html

I would also commend The Christmas Truce by Malcolm Brown and Shirley Seaton both as an excellent accound of the truce and as a reference for the football matches. I've read but haven't got the book and I think I'm correct in saying that they find no compelling evidence for an organised game. While I was trying to confirm this from other sources I came across reference to a similar conclusion in 's Rites of Spring: the Great War and the Birth of the Modern Age. There does seem to be evidence for at least one kick about which involved the 1/6th Cheshires; however they were in the line a bit north west of the area where the Khaki Chums cross is sited. This section of the line was held by the Royal Warwicks including Bruce Bairsfather who wrote one of the best accounts of the truce (but doesn't mention football if memory serves). I didn't know that it was the Bairsfather connection that resulted in the St Yvon cross being put up; the "blantantly daft" story is told here.

http://www.todayinliterature.com/today.asp?Search_Date=12/25/2012

Pete.

P.S. I know exactly what Centurion means when talking about wanting to discard a current season ticket; I've been there....

Be careful with what Modris Ekstein says, I'm currently going through the book for the next seminar and there is some very dodgy stuff in there where good verifiable sources contradict him or the source he quotes isn't a source at all, He appears to come to a conclusion in many places and then find a source that supports his view or, if there is no source just quotes things as dogmatic facts without any backup.

[David Ridgus]

A good summary of the football legends is contained here: http://www.christmastruce.co.uk/football.html

I would also commend The Christmas Truce by Malcolm Brown and Shirley Seaton both as an excellent accound of the truce and as a reference for the football matches. I've read but haven't got the book and I think I'm correct in saying that they find no compelling evidence for an organised game. While I was trying to confirm this from other sources I came across reference to a similar conclusion in Modris Ekstein's Rites of Spring: the Great War and the Birth of the Modern Age. There does seem to be evidence for at least one kick about which involved the 1/6th Cheshires; however they were in the line a bit north west of the area where the Khaki Chums cross is sited. This section of the line was held by the Royal Warwicks including Bruce Bairsfather who wrote one of the best accounts of the truce (but doesn't mention football if memory serves). I didn't know that it was the Bairsfather connection that resulted in the St Yvon cross being put up; the "blantantly daft" story is told here.

http://www.todayinliterature.com/today.asp?Search_Date=12/25/2012

Pete.

P.S. I know exactly what Centurion means when talking about wanting to discard a current season ticket; I've been there....

Pete

My copy of Brown and Seaton's book is at school so I'll check tomorrow whether they record a formal match. Last year I read Stanley Weintraub's "Silent Night" which is nothing like as historically rigorous as "The Christmas Truce" but is a good evocative read in the run up to Christmas.

David

[Let Erin Remember]

The Christmas truce took place.

There was fraternisation and the soldiers did suspend hostilities, albeit for only a day.

For that brief period the spirit of Christmas brought peace to the battlefront.

Frohe Weihnachter Kamaraden, und ein glüchliches neues Jahr!

Séamus

[John_Hartley]

There does seem to be evidence for at least one kick about which involved the 1/6th Cheshires; however they were in the line a bit north west of the area where the Khaki Chums cross is sited.

As upthread, there is reasonable documentation from 6th Cheshires - including CSM Frank Naden's newspaper report a few days later (see Fattyowls link upthread). Interestingly, at the time, the Cheshires were attached to the three regular army battalions of the brigade - 1st Dorsets, Bedfordshires and Norfolks - none of whom make mention of the truce that I've come across. Naden also mentions "the Scotsmen" starting the bagpipes. Anyone know a Scottish battalion near the Messines-Wulverghem road?

[Fattyowls]

Be careful with what Modris Ekstein says, I'm currently going through the book for the next seminar and there is some very dodgy stuff in there where good verifiable sources contradict him or the source he quotes isn't a source at all, He appears to come to a conclusion in many places and then find a source that supports his view or, if there is no source just quotes things as dogmatic facts without any backup.

Thanks for the warning, consider it unreferenced. I'd not put it on my Christmas list anyway.

P.S. Do you speak from bitter experience where discarding current season tickets is concerned?

As upthread, there is reasonable documentation from 6th Cheshires - including CSM Frank Naden's newspaper report a few days later (see Fattyowls link upthread). Interestingly, at the time, the Cheshires were attached to the three regular army battalions of the brigade - 1st Dorsets, Bedfordshires and Norfolks - none of whom make mention of the truce that I've come across. Naden also mentions "the Scotsmen" starting the bagpipes. Anyone know a Scottish battalion near the Messines-Wulverghem road?

John

According to the LLT list of front line battalions that participated in the truce the 2nd Seaforth Highlanders were in front of Ploegsteert Wood three battalions down from the Cheshires. The link is:

http://www.1914-1918.net/truce.htm

This assumes that the list includes all of the battalions in the line which needs some care; I'm sure there is a map in Brown and Seaton's book which shows a gap in participation just to the south of St Yvon. This might imply that there is a battalion in the line that didn't take part which might push the bagpipes further away. Another possibility is the proximity of a Scots unit in support but the Naden letter seems to suggest to me that it was front line bagpipes. I stand ready to be corrected.....

Pete.

[Fattyowls]

My copy of Brown and Seaton's book is at school so I'll check tomorrow whether they record a formal match. Last year I read Stanley Weintraub's "Silent Night" which is nothing like as historically rigorous as "The Christmas Truce" but is a good evocative read in the run up to Christmas.

David

David, can you look at the map in Christmas Truce just to check that my suggestion above that there was a gap in participation just south of St Yvon by Ploegsteert Wood isn't the product of a fevered imagination? Thanks in anticipation.

Pete.

P.S. I really liked the quote about the two kinds of guides in the What WW1 Books Are You Reading thread. From my experiences taking my friends around the battlefields in September I'm firmly in category 2. The bit about timetables rings true too.

[Jack Alexander]

Don't see the logical connection. What are you going to do with a football in the front line trench? Play keepyupy? dribbling round the bomb stops? Plenty of photographic evidence of both footballs and cricket bats just behind the line not aware of any in the front line trench except, as I said, when they were taken there for a very specific purpose (kicking across no mans land.

There's nothing logical about life in the trenches.

If you went up the line for a four or five day tour, you might be lucky and come out into divisional reserve. Or you might find yourself in brigade reserve, much closer to the front. If you and your mates were keen footballers, you'd keep a ball in your kit at all times and seize any opportunity to get a game going. I spoke to numerous members of 16 RS (not the most typical battalion, I grant you) and every section (apparently without exception) had at least one football. A deflated piece of leather and a hand pump take up little space in your haversack.

John McCartney, the secretary of Heart of Midlothian Football Club, personally administered a wartime charity, 'Footballs For Soldiers', raising funds to supply soldiers at the front with new footballs. A remarkable total of 1,070 balls were sent out to units in every theatre where British and Commonwealth troops served. The letters of thanks he received clearly indicate that the first thing many of the lads did when they came out of the line was find a field and mark out a pitch. They would therefore have the balls with them.