Identity Disc religious designations

[CROONAERT]

I'm currently attempting to compile a listing of the religion codes that can be encountered on Great War identity discs (mainly British pattern discs as these were the only ones that had religious denominations included and stamped as per regulations (in most cases (TF apart),that is!)...but also US discs of the last few months of the war (where inclusion of religion was at personal choice). I'm not, as yet, including the religions to be encountered on the hand-written slips found in the Austro-Hungarian and Italian locket tags.

Anyway, below is a listing of those that I have encountered on British and US pattern discs from the era 1906 to 1919. Can anyone add any more to this list, please?

Cheers.

Dave

(PS. this list is all verifiable in that I have seen, own or have owned discs marked up as such, or have seen mention in a primary document. Could I ask that any additions follow similar criteria please.)

........

Religious denominations found on British and US Identification Discs

B………………..Baptist
Bapt…………….Baptist (variant)
Bap…………….Baptist (variant)
Cath…………….Catholic
C….…………….Catholic (variant)
CE ……………..Church of England
CoE…………….Church of England (variant)
CofE……………Church of England (variant)
CI………………Church of Ireland
CoI……………..Church of Ireland (variant)
CofI…………….Church of Ireland (variant)
Cong……………Congregationalist
CS……………...Church of Scotland
CoS…………….Church of Scotland (variant)
CofS……………Church of Scotland (variant)
E………………..Evangelical(variant)
Evan……………Evangelical
Ev………………Evangelical (variant)
H…………….….Hebrew (Jewish) – US discs only(?)

Heb.……...….….Hebrew (Jewish)
J…………………Jewish
Jew…………...…Jewish (variant)
Meth.....................Methodist
M..........................Methodist (variant) - US discs only?
NC………………Non-Conformist - US and Canadian discs only?
P………………...Protestant - US ,Canadian, Australian and S.African discs only?
Prot……………...Protestant - US and Canadian discs only?
Pres……………...Presbyterian
P............................Presbyterian (variant) - GB discs only(?)
PM........................Primitive Methodist
Q……………......Quaker
RC………………Roman Catholic
U……………...…Unitarian
W………………..Wesleyan
Wes……………...Wesleyan (variant)

[David_Underdown]

I'd have though Evangelical rather than Evangelist (which is really the generic description applied to the writers of the four gospels)

[Stoppage Drill]

I would have expected Meth (odist).

It isn't quite the same as Wesleyan.

[CROONAERT]

I'd have though Evangelical rather than Evangelist (which is really the generic description applied to the writers of the four gospels)

I'd originally put 'Evangelicalist' (which is the term that can be found on a US document that I'd seen), but ,for some reason, it didn't sound quite correct for me. Having no idea on the correct term, I wonder what it actually should be?

Dave

***edit*** I've now reverted it back to its original 'Evangelicalist' until I learn otherwise.

[keithfazzani]

I would have expected Meth (odist).

It isn't quite the same as Wesleyan.

Agreed, certainly not 100 years ago

[CROONAERT]

I would have expected Meth (odist).

Very possible, and , now you mention it, I do have a recollection of once having a tag marked up as such (and actually still have a US disc marked 'M'), so both variants are now included.

Thanks.

Dave.

[old sparky]

Was the designation 'OD' (other denomination) in use during WW1 or is that a later thing?

Peter B

[CROONAERT]

Was the designation 'OD' (other denomination) in use during WW1 ... ...?

Not that I've ever come across Peter. (Same with the other similar variants such as COD ('Christian, Other Denomination') and OPD ('Other Protestant Denomination') which both post-date the Vietnam War)

Dave.

[clive_hughes]

With the Welsh scene in mind, I'd have thought to see maybe Ind(ependent) which was the literal term (Annibynwyr) used for the Welsh Congregationalists, but maybe not. Also there was definite confusion over the status of the Welsh Calvinistic Methodist Church, perhaps the largest single denomination in the Principality, which was actually a Presbyterian body (and today is titled the Welsh Presbyterian Church). Usually see their members automatically described as Methodists on enlistment papers, but echoing comments above, they were not Wesleyans,

A set of 1915-16 Reserve Company Roll books exists for the 16th/20th Battn RWF, in which the mens' denominations require 9 sets of initials to cover!

Clive

[Grovetown]

I've one with a P M on, which my mother gave me the meaning of, and for the life of me cannot remember.

An evening of googling beckons....

Cheers,

GT.

[squirrel]

Primitive Methodist?

[Waggoner]

And then there was the Canadian officer who, if I remember the story correctly, listed himself as pagan! I wonder how they abbreviated that?

All the best,

Gary

[CROONAERT]

I've one with a P M on, which my mother gave me the meaning of, and for the life of me cannot remember.

I'd definitely go with Squirrel's suggestion of Primitive Methodist for this one, GT.

Any chance of seeing an image of it so I can include it, please?

Cheers.

Dave.

[CROONAERT]

And then there was the Canadian officer who, if I remember the story correctly, listed himself as pagan! I wonder how they abbreviated that?

All the best,

Gary

They wouldn't have. It'd have been left blank.

Dave

[CROONAERT]

With the Welsh scene in mind, I'd have thought to see maybe Ind(ependent) which was the literal term (Annibynwyr) used for the Welsh Congregationalists, but maybe not. Also there was definite confusion over the status of the Welsh Calvinistic Methodist Church, perhaps the largest single denomination in the Principality, which was actually a Presbyterian body (and today is titled the Welsh Presbyterian Church). Usually see their members automatically described as Methodists on enlistment papers, but echoing comments above, they were not Wesleyans,

A set of 1915-16 Reserve Company Roll books exists for the 16th/20th Battn RWF, in which the mens' denominations require 9 sets of initials to cover!

Clive

Funnily enough, I was just thinking of the Welsh and realised that Welsh units must just about be the ones that I have seen the least amount of discs from. Any assistance with the denominations encountered on Welsh discs would be gratefully received.

Dave

[Grovetown]

Here you go.

Cheers,

GT.

[CROONAERT]

Thanks for that GT.

Unfortunately, being a 'private purchase' tag, I can't use it as hard evidence (just yet) as it's not an official issue and 'anything goes' as regards inscriptions on these. I agree that PM is very likely to be an official designation for a Primitive Methodist though, so I'm going to tentatively include it and hope that it also turns up on an official tag somewhere down the line too.

Thanks again,

Dave.

[CarylW]

The tag here appears to have PM for Primitive Methodist:

http://ehive.com/account/4764/object/177436/Identity_tag

His MIC (C Hesp) is here:

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1262/30850_A000733-01786/1944810?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3dMedalRolls%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsln%3dhesp%26dbOnly%3d_F0003FD8%257c_F0003FD8_x%252c_F0003FD9%257c_F0003FD9_x%26_F0003FD9%3darmy%2bservice%2bcorps%26uidh%3d1b5%26pcat%3d39%26fh%3d12%26h%3d1944810%26recoff%3d10%2b22%26ml_rpos%3d13&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Also his Charles Hesp Pension Record that does have 'Primitive Methodist' recorded one one of the pages (4th page in)

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=c&gsln=hesp&cpxt=1&uidh=1b5&cp=11&pcat=39&h=448617&db=BritishArmy&indiv=1&ml_rpos=13

[centurion]

And then there was the Canadian officer who, if I remember the story correctly, listed himself as pagan! I wonder how they abbreviated that?

All the best,

Gary

Possibly lumped together with Atheist and Agnostic and labelled CoE

[CROONAERT]

The tag here appears to have PM for Primitive Methodist:

http://ehive.com/account/4764/object/177436/Identity_tag

His MIC (C Hesp) is here:

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1262/30850_A000733-01786/1944810?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3dMedalRolls%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsln%3dhesp%26dbOnly%3d_F0003FD8%257c_F0003FD8_x%252c_F0003FD9%257c_F0003FD9_x%26_F0003FD9%3darmy%2bservice%2bcorps%26uidh%3d1b5%26pcat%3d39%26fh%3d12%26h%3d1944810%26recoff%3d10%2b22%26ml_rpos%3d13&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Also his Charles Hesp Pension Record that does have 'Primitive Methodist' recorded one one of the pages (4th page in)

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=c&gsln=hesp&cpxt=1&uidh=1b5&cp=11&pcat=39&h=448617&db=BritishArmy&indiv=1&ml_rpos=13

Thanks Caryl.

His entry into active service pre-dates the official notification (Army Order) banning the use of hand-written identity discs by some 9 months, so I feel I can safely consider that tag to be 'official' (to an extent). The tentativeness of my PM entry has now been removed and I'm now happy to include it as an official designation .

Cheers.

Dave.

[CROONAERT]

Possibly lumped together with Atheist and Agnostic and labelled CoE

Quite likely actually! (Many Baptists, Weslyans, Methodists, etc etc were also classed as CE/CoE/CofE on their discs, so why not?)

Dave

[David_Underdown]

In that case Evangelicalist might be a rather literal translation of Evangelische (sp?) which is what we'd normally call Lutheran in English. Does the man have a Germanic name which woud fit with this theory?

[clive_hughes]

Dave,

The only Welsh one I have an image of is a CE, which doesn't help much! I'll try to find my old notes on the Company Roll to see what variants it gave (if the mice haven't eaten it...)

Clive

[Magnumbellum]

In that case Evangelicalist might be a rather literal translation of Evangelische (sp?) which is what we'd normally call Lutheran in English. Does the man have a Germanic name which woud fit with this theory?

One of the problems with the list of abbreviations and denominations as presented is that it does not make a clear distinction between UK examples and north American ones. May I suggest that the list be divided into two, even if some examples appear in both lists.

As to "Evangelicalist", I cannot imagine anyone in the UK ever inventing, let alone actually using, such a monstrous mouthful. "Evangelical" is commonly used in various UK denominations; the contortion "Evangelicalist" must be presumed to be American.

The same goes for "Unitarianist". Whoever would want to add a superfluous and meaningless "ist" to the perfectly understood "Unitarian", long established since the Unitarians distinguished themselves from Trinitarians - or would an American only understand me if I wrote "Trinitarianist" - ugh!

Likewise, I assume the "C" for Roman Catholic must be American, as the standard UK usage has long been "RC".

[CROONAERT]

In that case Evangelicalist might be a rather literal translation of Evangelische (sp?) which is what we'd normally call Lutheran in English. Does the man have a Germanic name which woud fit with this theory?

No, it's not from an individual case, but from a list of 'acceptable' initials to be used (dates from late 1918)

Dave.