Identity Disc religious designations

[CROONAERT]

Dave,

The only Welsh one I have an image of is a CE, which doesn't help much! I'll try to find my old notes on the Company Roll to see what variants it gave (if the mice haven't eaten it...)

Clive

Thanks Clive. Don't go out of your way though as, even though I'd probably get a good idea from the abbreviations used in the roll, they might not necessarily match what was stamped on an identity disc. I really need examples from discs to be honest.

Cheers.

Dave.

[CROONAERT]

One of the problems with the list of abbreviations and denominations as presented is that it does not make a clear distinction between UK examples and north American ones. May I suggest that the list be divided into two, even if some examples appear in both lists.

Can't be done, unfortunately, as its not that simple... as a few 'American' style stampings can also be regularly found on discs belonging to members of the old Empire. Also, it's not intended to be a definitive list (it cannot be really) anyway as different examples will always turn up and I cannot say that one particular initial does or does not appear on one or the other.

...

Likewise, I assume the "C" for Roman Catholic must be American, as the standard UK usage has long been "RC".

'C' is for 'Catholic'.....not necessarily for 'Roman Catholic' and ,though it is an official US 'acceptable abbreviation' it has also been encountered on Canadian and Australian discs (amongst, probably, others).

Dave

[CROONAERT]

The offending 'ist' has now been removed from 'Evangelicalist' and 'Unitarianist'.

I'm still uncertain though........ can anyone confirm for me 100% what the correct title is? .... What I'm having trouble understanding is in how this particular branch of a religion might be described by a person of that faith - for example a person might say " I am a Catholic" or 'I am a Methodist", but to say " I am an Evangelical' just doesn't seem correct to me. (Obviously, it might be, but it just doesn't sound quite right to me!)

Thanks.

Dave.

[jon_armstrong]

Unitarian is 100% correct.

[keithfazzani]

The offending 'ist' has now been removed from 'Evangelicalist' and 'Unitarianist'.

I'm still uncertain though........ can anyone confirm for me 100% what the correct title is? .... What I'm having trouble understanding is in how this particular branch of a religion might be described by a person of that faith - for example a person might say " I am a Catholic" or 'I am a Methodist", but to say " I am an Evangelical' just doesn't seem correct to me. (Obviously, it might be, but it just doesn't sound quite right to me!)

Thanks.

Dave.

I too am puzzled at anyone describing themselves as an Evangelical particularly 100 years ago, there has always been an "evangelical" wing of the C of E for example but its members would certainly have described themselves as C of E first as it were. There were certainly churches who at the time had Evangelical in their title, but as far as I am aware not in the UK.

[Grovetown]

E for Episcopalian instead perhaps?

Cheers,

GT.

[Muerrisch]

In his little Welsh town Frank Richards DCM MM 2nd RWF could choose from at least:

St Peter’s Church of Wales, one or other of the Baptist chapels [one of them with services in Welsh], a Calvinistic, one of the three Congregationals, a Presbyterian, a Primitive Methodist and one of two Weslyan.

spoilt for choice.

[Grovetown]

I'm not sure SPCoW, BC, Calv, Cong, P, PM, W would have fitted on the tag in the event of indecision...

[Muerrisch]

nor would

"none of the above"!

[keithfazzani]

E for Episcopalian instead perhaps?

Cheers,

GT.

Would make sense for a Scottish soldier

[CROONAERT]

E for Episcopalian instead perhaps?

Cheers,

GT.

Possible (as well as, rather than instead) but, until something concrete to state this can be seen, I can't include it (the 'E for Evangeliwhateveritis' (officially Evangelicalist on the one solitary piece of (US) evidence that I actually do have) is the only designation that I've actually seen for that letter).

Cheers.

Dave

[CROONAERT]

In his little Welsh town Frank Richards DCM MM 2nd RWF could choose from at least:

St Peter’s Church of Wales, one or other of the Baptist chapels [one of them with services in Welsh], a Calvinistic, one of the three Congregationals, a Presbyterian, a Primitive Methodist and one of two Weslyan.

spoilt for choice.

Across the Empire and the USA, there must be countless religions and variations that could be included. However, as said in my previous post, I can't include any unless I see something officially (or semi-officially) stating that a certain initial represents a certain religion (and , possibly, a disc (preferably non-private purchase) showing this initial in use).

Cheers.

Dave

[old sparky]

Purely as a point of interest was the religious denomination include on discs for any other reason than to ensure a burial in keeping with a soldiers faith? If not, the chances of having a padre of the precise faith of a casualty to officiate at the burial are slim in the extreme. Hence the tendency to classify protestant minorities as CofE?

Peter B

[JefR]

Dave

Only just caught up with this topic.

HEB (Hebrew) - is stamped on my grandfather in Law's Cheshire Regt discs.

Jef

[CROONAERT]

Thanks Jef.

I'll add that to my list if that's a confirmed initial (I'll also remove the 'US only' from 'Hebrew' now it's been sighted on a British disc).

Cheers.

Dave

*** EDIT*** ... now added (though just put a '(?)' next to the 'US discs only' as an 'H' for Hebrew has still to be sighted on a non-US disc)

[CROONAERT]

Jef, just a quick thought.

Can you confirm for me that the 'HEB' is stamped on your G'father-in-Law's officially issued identity disc(s) and not on a private purchase tag, please.

Thanks.

Dave.

[JefR]

Dave

Once more apologies for the delayed reply.

Yes it's an official original disc - photo attached

[JefR]

Dementia beckons! I forgot to click the "Attach this file" button.

Jef

[CROONAERT]

Thanks for that Jef.

Dave.

[clive_hughes]

See this new topic which given its Welsh context probably shows discs to a Congregationalist soldier http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=209866&hl=

Clive

[reese williams]

I think the idea of two lists is worthwhile as the same denominations are called by different terms in the two countries. For instance I think the on US discs E would much more likely be Episcopalian rather than Evangelical. Evangelical is more of an umbrella term encompassing a number of different churches including but not limited to: Church of God, Church of Christ, Nazarene, Assembly of God, Pentacostal and a few others. What Brits would call C of E has always been the Episcopal Church in the US (at least until the late 70's when the church split and the conservative side of the split started referring to themselves as Anglican). NC must be on a British disc as Non Conformist is not a term that has ever been used in the States since we've never had a state church to conform to.

[CROONAERT]

...For instance I think the on US discs E would much more likely be Episcopalian rather than Evangelical. ....What Brits would call C of E has always been the Episcopal Church in the US (at least until the late 70's when the church split and the conservative side of the split started referring to themselves as Anglican). NC must be on a British disc as Non Conformist is not a term that has ever been used in the States since we've never had a state church to conform to...

The E for Evangelical ('evangelicalist' on the actual list), NC for Non-conformist and others mentioning US use are actually from an official US Army list dating from 1920 that details the religion initials that were authorised for use on US Army discs as from July 1918. CoE/CoS (etc) and variants are also mentioned.... possibly illustrating the immigrant nature of recruitment back then (?)

The 'E' could very well also stand for Episcopalian, but this isn't mentioned and, without documentary evidence, I cannot use it.

Thanks for your interest,

Dave.

[CROONAERT]

See this new topic which given its Welsh context probably shows discs to a Congregationalist soldier http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=209866&hl=

Clive

Thanks Clive. It does.

Dave

[Brainybri]

John Parry of the Royal Field Artillery, from North Wales, has CON on his identity tags....his service record says C of E.....and he was, as far as we know, a Calvinist Methodist.. There seems to be some confusion here!

[CROONAERT]

John Parry of the Royal Field Artillery, from North Wales, has CON on his identity tags....his service record says C of E.....and he was, as far as we know, a Calvinist Methodist.. There seems to be some confusion here!

It's actually far from unusual. I've come across quite a number of discs to the same soldiers that show all show different designations... One set that I have to hand has 'WES' on his originally issued disc of 1914 and 'CE' on his private purchase wrist tag. 'CE' strikes me as being a simplistic 'cover all' designation used on the tags of many soldiers who weren't of this religion (or those who couldn't be bothered arguing!)

Dave