HMHS Assaye - Look Ups

[Guest]

Hello Alan

 

I'd be very grateful if you could check to see if the name of my grandfather appears?

 

William Francis (Frank) Thomas C 2661 Brixham Devon

Was on HMS Ocean, then HMS Triumph, then on the beaches at Anzac and Sulva.

Was shipped home probably in October 1915

Died in Stonehouse Naval Hospital of dysentry and tuberculosis 25th November 1915

 

Any information gratefully received

 

Thank you!

[alantwo]

Hi Lighth

 

Thanks for getting in touch and I see the above is your first post thus a warm welcome to the Forum.

 

Unfortunately your grandfather does not appear in the records I have, indeed there are very few naval men at all in Assaye's record. Perhaps try a post in the Sailors, Navies and the War at Sea section of the Forum and someone may be able to help. I believe one contributor has a web-site dedicated to HMS Triumph thus there maybe something there for you.

 

Good luck with your research.

 

Alan

[Guest]

Many thanks Alan

[seaJane]

I have found his service record in the RNR - here is the link in case you have not seen it, though since you give his ships you may well have .

 

It may be downloaded for £3.50, or seen in the local library if you do not have an Ancestry / FMP subscription (or you may be able to read the preview option).

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8494654

 

sJ

 

 

PS and welcome to the Forum!

[Bob Herrod]

Could you please check the "Assaye" records for my grandfather Joseph Herrod. He was with the RAMC, service no.45937. I believe his admission date was 20/9/15. I am researching his family tree for my father, Geoffrey Herrod, Joseph's son. Unfortunately there is no service record available for Joseph. I know he survived WW1 and arrived home in the UK from Malta in 1917/8. I have no information between 20/9/15 and his arrival back in the UK. Thank you.

[alantwo]

12 hours ago, Bob Herrod said:

Could you please check the "Assaye" records for my grandfather Joseph Herrod. He was with the RAMC, service no.45937. I believe his admission date was 20/9/15. I am researching his family tree for my father, Geoffrey Herrod, Joseph's son. Unfortunately there is no service record available for Joseph. I know he survived WW1 and arrived home in the UK from Malta in 1917/8. I have no information between 20/9/15 and his arrival back in the UK. Thank you.

 

Hi Bob

 

Thanks for your post and welcome to the Forum.

 

The Admissions and Discharge Book entry is below:

 

Index No: 2071

Regiment, Battalion or Company: RAMC

Squadron, Battery or Company: 34 FA [34^th Field Ambulance]

Regimental Number: 45937

Rank: Lance Corporal

Surname, First Name or Initials: Herrod, J.

Completed Years of Age: 30

Completed Years of Service: 1

Completed Months with the Field Force: 2 (months)

Diseases: Debility

Date of Admission: 20/9/15

Ward: [Not given]

Religion: Methodist

 

One casualty died on board and was buried at Mudros on 22nd September thus I assume the ship called there, although it is not mentioned in the Embarkation Officer (Mudros) War Diary. A further casualty was buried at sea on 25th, 21 miles East of Malta thus it was heading in that direction. I hope that helps.

 

Regards

Alan

 

Just to add that when the 34th Field Ambulance with 3 Officers and 192 men left Devonport on HT Haverford on 2nd July, my Grandfather was on the same ship.

 

Edited 15 August , 2019 by alantwo
Additional information

[Bob Herrod]

Thank you Alan. I wonder if our grandfathers met. Still the mystery though of what he did after his discharge. I am the custodian of his fob watch which he carried with him throughout WW1. On the case are hand engraved the places he was in, Egypt, Achibaba, Cape Hellas, Anzac, Suvla Bay and finally Malta. I have his medals and interestly a coloured drawing of him in a tent, in uniform but with sgt's stripes on his shirt. The fob watch still works by the way. Again may thanks.

[charlie962]

18 minutes ago, Bob Herrod said:

Still the mystery though of what he did after his discharge

There is a Pension Card on Fold3 for him which shows he was discharged (Sgt RAMC, 45937) 14/3/19 and received some sort of pension until 1925 ?

Disability- DAH, attrib. (LongLongTrail tells us  DAH means disorderly action of the heart, sometimes called “effort syndrome” or “soldier’s heart”. Often the result of stress or fatigue, it does not imply there was any organic disease. ) Given he had already suffered from Debility in 1915, perhaps his duties were 'light' but 14/3/19 doesn't represent an early discharge.

 

Charlie

[Bob Herrod]

Charlie, thank you so much for this. The knowledgeable people who respond to enquiries posted are "heroes" in their own right. I had drawn a blank until I joined the forum, now I have something to tell my father (aged 93) about his father. Unfortunately I cannot take this further at the moment as the WFA membership fee is beyond my means. Again my thanks to you and your colleagues for your time and invaluable knowledge.

[paul.pengelly]

Hello Alan

               Could you be kind enough to check your records for my Great Uncle:

 

Cpl William Pengelly 11596 ,8th Welsh Regiment (Pioneers)

 

I have what remains of his service file which is very little,but it does contain a letter he wrote indicating he was wounded but it is not clear whether in the Dardanelles or in fact in  Mesapotamia (where he reckons he was taken ill twice).It would be nice to find out something about him as he is the one of my Grandad’s brothers I know the least about.

 

Thank you

Paul

 

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, paul.pengelly said:

it is not clear whether in the Dardanelles or in fact in  Mesapotamia

Paul, you may already have this but whilst awaiting Alan's response I note:

 

His Service record identifies that he was with the 8th Welsh throughout the War. It also states that he was wounded Left Shoulder on 6/8/15, only the day after the Bn disembarked at Gallipoli.

 

Interpretting his letter and putting a coma where I think it was meant, It seems:

Dardenelles wounded,

Mespot taken ill twice

To India

Taken ill after the war

 

The last line is supported by the Service Record -Bronchitis Salonika 4/1/19 and the Hospital Admissions 31st ambulance showing his train transfer 30/1/19 from Marseilles to Le Havre.

 

His Service Record  fits well with LLT's notes on 8th Welsh:

 

SvcRecord-  MEF 16/6/15-16/2/16         LLT- Embarked at Avonmouth on 15 June 1915 and landed at ANZAC cove on 5 August 1915. (his MIC has 4/8/15 date)

                                                               LLT- December 1915 : evacuated from Gallipoli and went to Egypt via Mudros.

 

SvcRecord-  IEF  17/2/16-1/12/18         LLT-  February 1916 : moved to Mesopotamia.

 

Seems fairly clear. Hope this helps

Charlie

[paul.pengelly]

Charlie 

          Thanks for the look up and the new information......There seems to be a least one page that I have never seen before let alone have a copy of ! .And I am not on Ancestry anymore ,typical

 

             The service record information about- Bronchitis ,Salonica,and train transfer from Marseille in 1919 is all completely new to me The service record I have (page 0190) has him posted16.6.1915,promoted Sgt 1.10.1915,posted Kirkee 14.3.1917,and posted Kirkee depot 23.9.1917.  Transferred to class “z” 11.3.1919

 

No mention of Mudros,Egypt,Mesopotamia, Salonika or France

I only gleaned that he had (possibly) been to the first three after reading his letters and the brief bits about 8th Welsh on the internet,which is the bit that baffles me I didn’t think the 8th Welsh went to  Salonika ?

I thought  that after being taken ill twice in Mespot he had been perhaps been invalided to Kirkee  Hospital in India then been posted to the Depot there possibly the P.O.W camp on light duties ,some of the 8th Welsh stayed out there into 1919 fighting in the 3rd Afghan war..

As per usual the more you find out the more you need to know.

[charlie962]

4 hours ago, paul.pengelly said:

There seems to be a least one page that I have never seen before

FindmyPast have better quality copies so maybe you missed it. With 11th Nov coming up you may get a free access offer on either ?

 

The 1919 train record was Hospital Admissions for 31st Ambulance Train; These records are on FindmyPast and, transcript only, Forces War Records.

 

Charlie

 

Have you checked the WarDiary 1916-1919 here at National Archives ?

Edited 23 October , 2019 by charlie962

[charlie962]

Paul, one more bit of info you may not have seen. In the above Service file is a mention of previous service with Royal West Kents, time expired;

There is this scrap (courtesy Findmypast)

 

Findmypast have a Service File for this 4672 William Leonard Pengelly who first joined the Militia 1903 then to the Special Reserve 1908. Its definitely the same man as there is an intriguing 1915 bit of paper being an enquiry form written by his ex-wife  , She says he's now Welsh Regt and is in Gallipoli. She even suspected he might have enlisted under a false name!

 

again courtesy Findmypast

 

charlie

Edited 23 October , 2019 by charlie962

[alantwo]

Hi Paul

 

There are 18 men from the same regiment who appear in the records, unfortunately I wasn't able to find your Great Uncle. However Charlie has found a wealth of information for you and an interesting marital adjunct, which should keep you going for a while. Good luck with your research.

 

Regards

Alan

[paul.pengelly]

Charlie 

          Had just sent you a pm thanking you for the copy of the missing page of his service record get back on here and you have added more ! Thanks again great work.

 I did know he was in the Royal West Kent’s special reserve as he said so in answer to the “Have you ever belonged....” question at his attestation,didn’t know about the militia in 1903 though,his brother Henry Charles Pengelly was also in the RWK...until he was discharged “on conviction by civil powers”....

 

Anne E Halls married William Leonard Pengelly 1910 Lewisham but on the census in 1911 she is back living with her family while he is with his family who have moved to  South Wales to work in and  around the pits....She obviously didn’t fancy leaving the bright lights of London for village living in rural Wales with the in laws ......all 11 of them, especially as she was expecting,so end of the marriage.Meanwhile back in Lewisham

The son George A Pengelly is born tail end of 1911,and she remarries to a Bertram J Sparrow in 1919 Lewisham.

1919 William arrives back in England on a Hospital ship transported to Endell Street Hospital in the Strand for 48 days,he suffers ill health,no job and disputes over his pension entitlement.

 

Thanks again for the help 

 

 

 

[paul.pengelly]

Alan

      Thanks for looking for William Pengelly for me ,it seems perhaps it wasn’t too serious an injury and was possibly treated ashore or on one of the hospital ships that fulfilled a sort of floating C.C.S role. 

 

Now thanks to charlie962 I have a more complete service record and it shows no gaps for hospitalisation in that theatre,so seems he was lucky,perhaps he was really lucky and missed Chunuk Bair where the 8th Welsh lost over half their strength on that one day the 8th.

 

Found this thread after it was quoted by kenf48 on the “Where were casualties taken from Gallipoli” by Robert 171

 

Thanks again for the help

Paul

[Caroline Hannam]

On 14/10/2013 at 16:08, alantwo said:

There are nine Admissions and Discharge Books for HMHS Assaye held by the National Archive for the Gallipoli campaign which I have photographed. The hospital ship evacuated casualties from Cape Helles, Anzac and Suvla Bay, including my Grandfather. I believe they are the only records of this type held by the National Archive and although there are only nine books they hold over 6000 names of Other Ranks casualties; with brief details of Name, Regiment, Rank and injuries etc. A few medical operations were also carried out on board which are also briefly listed by type and the outcome. The casualties are mostly British, Irish and Anzac though I have, for example, found an entry for the Zion Mule Corps and one Turkish Prisoner of War who is not named, only the injuries being cared for. If death occurred whilst on board this is also recorded and in rare instances the Latitude and Longitude are given of the burial at sea.

Given the total number of casualties, 6000 is only a very small number, however if any forum member believes they may have an interest in a casualty on HMHS Assaye, please let me have as much known information as possible and I will take a look. Please remember that these are not digitised records and I will need to look through them by hand, which may take some time. To narrow down the options a little I’ve listed below the approximate dates when the ship was taking casualties on board.

Kind regards

Alan

30th July to 6th August 1915.

16th August 1915.

23rd August 1915.

26th August and 27th August 1915.

8th September 1915.

20th September and 21st September 1915.

2nd October to 4th October 1915.

24 November to 27 November 1915.

8th December to 10th December 1915.

18th December to 20th December 1915.

2nd January to 6th January 1916.

 

[alantwo]

Hi Caroline

 

Welcome to the Forum. How can I help, is there someone you are looking for?

 

Kind regards

Alan

[Guest]

My Great Uncle served in the great War and was eventually killed in France. Unfortunately I do not have his war record, but believe he was evacuated off Gallipoli on HMHS Assaye in 1915. Any information would be most welcome.

 

His details were:

Albert Spring

Reg no. 12341

Royal Warwickshire Regiment

 

Kind Regards

Chris H

[johnboy]

 

 

Picture of ship in 1915. Location not given

[alantwo]

19 hours ago, Chris H said:

My Great Uncle served in the great War and was eventually killed in France. Unfortunately I do not have his war record, but believe he was evacuated off Gallipoli on HMHS Assaye in 1915. Any information would be most welcome.

 

His details were:

Albert Spring

Reg no. 12341

Royal Warwickshire Regiment

 

Kind Regards

Chris H

 

Hi Chris

 

Thanks for your post and welcome to the Forum.

 

Your Great Uncle is listed in the Admission and Discharge Books of HMHS Assaye, interestingly only a few names from my Grandfather. Your Great Uncle's entry is as follows:

 

Index No: 251

Regiment, Battalion or Company: 9th Warwicks

Squadron, Battery or Company: B

Regimental Number: 12341

Rank: Private

Surname, First Name or Initials: Spring, A

Completed Years of Age: 35

Completed Years of Service: 1

Completed Months with the Field Force: 3 (months)

Diseases: Dysentery

Date of Admission: 8/12/15

Date of Transfer: 13/12/15 (Malta)

Ward: [Not given]

Religion: CE

 

I hope that helps.

 

Johnboy - Thanks for the image, I have a similar one but without the hospital ship livery.

 

Regards

Alan

 

 

[stuannmc]

Hello,

I would be really grateful if you could please look up my Grandfather:

 

Sam V Taylor

10258

West Yorkshire Regt

Wounded 2 September 1915, Suvla Bay

Returned home to England 8 October 1915.

From the  'Forces War records'   sent  "to 26th Clg. Hospital, Royal Army Medical Corps."

 

Thankyou very  much!!!!

 

 

 

[alantwo]

1 hour ago, stuannmc said:

Hello,

I would be really grateful if you could please look up my Grandfather:

 

Sam V Taylor

10258

West Yorkshire Regt

Wounded 2 September 1915, Suvla Bay

Returned home to England 8 October 1915.

From the  'Forces War records'   sent  "to 26th Clg. Hospital, Royal Army Medical Corps."

 

Thankyou very  much!!!!

 

 

 

 

Hello stuannmc

 

Thanks for your post, unfortunately your Grandfather does not appear in the HMHS Assaye records I have. The ship returned to Gallipoli about 8th September, thus he had probably already left the Peninsular on another hospital ship; the 32nd Infantry Brigade War Diary has 9 men wounded that day. As you probably already know he was discharged in May of the following year with sickness, he also has two entries in the 1914-15 Star Medal Rolls. Good luck with your research.

 

Regards

Alan

[stuannmc]

Thankyou for your very quick reply.
Would you know how I could find out what other hospital ships were in the area the same time? 

Thanks again, I appreciate your time and help.