Mitter2k1 Posted 27 May , 2013 Share Posted 27 May , 2013 This is my first post and I am hoping that the members here can help me. I am getting ready to pick up my first WWI battle rifle, the P14. I have looked around with little success. But what would be the correct sling for this rifle for the period? Everything that I have found has me lost between whether it was leather or web. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 27 May , 2013 Share Posted 27 May , 2013 (edited) If you want to shoot it, I would suggest the web sling, the Enfield pattern leather sling is just horrible, and far to prone to slippage. If you like a leather sling then to be honest the Spingfield sling is far superior for the shooter. There is a Rifle Brigade pattern sling in leather which does not slip, but I have only ever seen one of those in thirty years. I shoot mine quite happily with a web sling. G Edited 27 May , 2013 by T8HANTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 27 May , 2013 Share Posted 27 May , 2013 I would agree with Gareth in terms of use. Even in terms of issue, I suspect that the very few P14s that may have made it to France (mostly sniper/marksman variants) would have had web slings given the period they were issued. Pictures of P14s in use in WWI, even with training units, are quite hard to find as most went straight into store. Here is one of the two pics I have showing P14s: A training unit in the UK - showing a mix of P14s and ShtLEs - all in this instance with leather slings on both types of rifle. Welcome to the forum Mitter2k1! Be sure to post some pics of your rifle here when you get it. I know of a couple of other P14s in Springfield Chris Here is a Winchester MkI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitter2k1 Posted 27 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 27 May , 2013 Web it is then. I will definitely post some pics when I get it. It needs a little stock refinishing, but nothing a little steel wool and pure boiled linseed oil can't handle. Luckily it still has most of the volley site. I just need the post that mounts to it to make it complete. Thank you guys for the response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parashooter Posted 27 May , 2013 Share Posted 27 May , 2013 Web was original since the P14 was generally for British consumption. Easiest way to get it not to slip is pinching the metal loops gently with pliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 27 May , 2013 Share Posted 27 May , 2013 Web was original since the P14 was generally for British consumption. Easiest way to get it not to slip is pinching the metal loops gently with pliers. An interesting assertion given the picture posted above. Both web and leather slings were used throughout the war on rifles in British service. The concern with slipping was with the leather slings rather than web. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 27 May , 2013 Share Posted 27 May , 2013 The slipping problem encountered with the Enfield pattern leather sling can be overcome by jamming a round between the last loop of the sling and the sling itself. Somebody did post an in the field photo of this being done. However it cannot be recomended outside of combat as the R.C.O.'s on the range I shoot at would have a fit if they saw a live one stuck in a sling. You could use a drill round or a dummy, but the web sling is so much nicer. An interesting aside is that I used to shoot a Long Lee-Enfield, as well as my P14. I and others have found the recoil from the P14, much harsher than an identical round fired from the LLE, which is contary as I understand it to the theory. LLE, long and light,- harsh recoil. P14 slightly shorter and heavier, should have less recoil, or have I got the theory wrong. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 27 May , 2013 Share Posted 27 May , 2013 I shoot MLE, SMLE and P.'14 and I cannot honestly say I notice any difference in recoil between them. All three are accurate but possibly the P.'14 is the best. Mitter2K1 - post the serial number and I will give you the date it was accepted at the factory by British inspectors. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitter2k1 Posted 27 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 27 May , 2013 Oh the SMLE. That is one of the first rifles I ever bought and sold. I remember that it was dated 1917. Being young and ignorant, I sold it without any thought about the fact it had 30 something notches carved into the trigger guard. I never paid it much mind at the time, and noticed that it definitely not common. That is one rifle I wish I could get back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitter2k1 Posted 30 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2013 TonyE- Here is the serial number. The receiver is marked ERA and I don't know about an asterisk. But the number is 169543. Let me know what it turns up. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitter2k1 Posted 31 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2013 Here are some pics for those that requested. It is definitely a beat up, well used rifle. Unfortunately,I don't believe the previous owner ever cleaned it. The rifling is sharp, but the lands are frosted and some of that may come out with some work. But as of now it has been well cleaned and most of the sticky gunk on the outside was melted off with some heat. I gave it a once over with boiled linseed oil and it is definitely an improvement. I will also post some pics of a couple bayonets that I've had for a while and the one that came with it. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitter2k1 Posted 31 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2013 After cleaning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 31 May , 2013 Share Posted 31 May , 2013 Looks to be a decent example, not nearly as beaten up as some. Is the middle bayonet a 1918 dated Pattern 13 or is it 1916? That's an interesting one if 1918. First bayonet is a US used Pattern 13 (british marks cancelled and US added) which is always nice What is the triangular stamp on the right-hand bayonet? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitter2k1 Posted 31 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2013 Looks to be a decent example, not nearly as beaten up as some. Is the middle bayonet a 1918 dated Pattern 13 or is it 1916? That's an interesting one if 1918. First bayonet is a US used Pattern 13 (british marks cancelled and US added) which is always nice What is the triangular stamp on the right-hand bayonet? Chris The middle and right hand bayonet are dated 1916. As for the triangle stamp, it is a triangle with a "R" inside. My guess would be a Remington proof mark. The two with the non-cancelled British marks were one of my first WWI pickups. I got them cheap and the were quite rusty. The middle one came out, but the right hand one just looks ok. But it has had a quick reblue done to it. They definitely make the rifle, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 31 May , 2013 Share Posted 31 May , 2013 What is the triangular stamp on the right-hand bayonet? Both the darkened bayonets are originally of 1916 manufacture but have since been reworked. Note the Broad Arrow inspection marks have been removed. The blades appear to have been blued and have add that Triangle mark added. It is possibly the ownership mark of some foreign user, but I don't know of it. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitter2k1 Posted 1 June , 2013 Author Share Posted 1 June , 2013 I actually never even realized t Both the darkened bayonets are originally of 1916 manufacture but have since been reworked. Note the Broad Arrow inspection marks have been removed. The blades appear to have been blued and have add that Triangle mark added. It is possibly the ownership mark of some foreign user, but I don't know of it. Cheers, S>S I never even paid any mind to the absence of the Broad Arrow. So I am curious as to where they would of been used. Maybe bought by a American Legion post of parades and ceremonies and used with the M1917 rifle? Most of these bayonets were only blued about an inch up from the guard, right? But these were blued when i got them. Well except where they were rusted. The handles were in great shape, so I am guessing that maybe they were left in their scabbards and those eventually rotted away and the bayonets sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 1 June , 2013 Share Posted 1 June , 2013 The only mark in a triangle that I have seen a lot recently is the Iraqi ownership mark (which looks a bit like a question mark in a triangle) but that's on SMLEs not on P13 bayonets. P14s were used by India (blackened blades common in Indian use) and Estonia/Latvia (? can never remember post WWI) and also I think were suppied to Greece post WWII. I recently saw one that appeared to have a New Zealand mark on it. Any chance of a close up of the mark? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 1 June , 2013 Share Posted 1 June , 2013 Yes the timber grips and screws (and bluing) are in excellent condition, so I am thinking a relatively "recent" rework somewhere, before eventual sale as milsurp. These were used all around the world by many countries so it wouldn't surprise me what the triangle mark stands for. It would be interesting to find out though ... Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 1 June , 2013 Share Posted 1 June , 2013 Here are two versions of the Iraq mark one more stylized than the other. These are from 1930s dated SMLEs Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitter2k1 Posted 1 June , 2013 Author Share Posted 1 June , 2013 Here is a couple of pics of the proof marks. This is the one dated 1-16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitter2k1 Posted 1 June , 2013 Author Share Posted 1 June , 2013 This is the other dated 7-16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5thBatt Posted 1 June , 2013 Share Posted 1 June , 2013 Send that Bayo to me, i'll put it to good use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 1 June , 2013 Share Posted 1 June , 2013 (edited) Thanks, Looks like a clear and obvious R in a triangle. New one on me I think. Chris Edit Iraq marked P14 5th Batt -- that's new to me too! (I have a couple of Sht LEs as shown) - do you think the bayo. mark is the same? Bottom one looks like it might be - top one looks like an R to me. Edited 1 June , 2013 by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitter2k1 Posted 1 June , 2013 Author Share Posted 1 June , 2013 I wish all of my gear and weapons could talk, imagine the stories they could tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5thBatt Posted 1 June , 2013 Share Posted 1 June , 2013 Thanks, Looks like a clear and obvious R in a triangle. New one on me I think. Chris Edit Iraq marked P14 5th Batt -- that's new to me too! (I have a couple of Sht LEs as shown) - do you think the bayo. mark is the same? Bottom one looks like it might be - top one looks like an R to me. To hard to say 4th but i don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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