“The Somme: Secret Tunnel Wars” BBC Four, 9pm Monday 20 May 2013”

[towisuk]

I am as you may know very critical of Great War documentarys and films and this one was well made and well presented, so I have no grumbles at all.........

There needs to be a new look by the programe commisioners in that there does NOT need to be a well known celeb or journalist presenting the film. They must add considerably to the cost and in many cases have no empathy with the subject.

Just what I was thinking Bob...programmes can be made (and better), without the usual faces popping up on screen reading form a script...

regards

Tom

[Simon Jones]

Simon,

Thanks for your reply. I was wondering if a record was kept. I take it these men were with the RE?

David

David

Yes the Tunnellers at La Boisselle were members of the 179th and 185th Tunnelling Companies, Royal Engineers. I started researching these two units in 2005, hence on the programme Peter was able to speak with such authority about the Tunnellers who were at La Boisselle. They left very sparse War Diaries and I have pieced together their story by locating reports submitted to Brigade and Division as well as cross-referencing with infantry units in the La Boisselle sector. In order to trace service records and build up a profile of the personnel I started collected data on the individual members and now have over 1,000 recorded. Private diaries, letters and photographs were mainly tracked down by finding descendants. In the case of the two miners from Tipton featured in the programme, John Lane and Ezekiel Parkes, the contact with their descendants was originally made by Andy Johnson. John Lane's grandson and great-grandson have visited the site and stood at the top of the W Shaft down which he descended on his final shift. My book on the La Boisselle Tunnellers has been interrupted by two other book commissions, plus all the work of the La Boisselle Study Group, but perhaps this year I can get it competed...

Simon

[towisuk]

Your contribution, as well as Jeremy and Iain's to this project cannot be understated Simon, well done, your years of research I believe, was the basis on which this excellent production was made

regards

Tom

[centurion]

Just what I was thinking Bob...programmes can be made (and better), without the usual faces popping up on screen reading form a script...

regards

Tom

There are some "usual faces" that have the experience and skills necessary to do a professional job (one thinks of Michael Palin's excellent documentary on the last day of the war) and there are many keen and enthusiastic amateurs who can kill an interesting subject stone dead. The problem is that there are some usual suspects (I mean faces) whose expertise is in being a celebrity and who tend to try and star and get in the way of the real story (you know the sort of thing - people who think film of themselves having a joy ride in a veteran aircraft is more interesting than the real subject of the programme). In the Glory Hole programme we had the happy combination of people who knew the subject and could talk interestingly about it without attempting to make themselves the star, unfortunately not something we find everyday. But I wouldn't knock every professional presenter, some one like Palin who is a consummate professional and also knows when to stand back and let the story star is worth their weight in something or other.

[Seadog]

Agreed, the WW1 series which stands out for me was "Not Forgotten" fronted by Ian Hislop, a most unusual choice but an excellent one. Also anything with Paul Reed in gets my attention.

Norman

[Ralphed]

Just watched it again was really touching to see and hear the emotion in the voice of Peter when he made it into the gallery were the 2 men were never recovered from

If someone of his experience gets emotional, for me It says all you need to know.

[towisuk]

I was pointing out that excellent programmes are possible without having to resort to the same old faces.

I also thoroughly enjoyed the "Not Forgotten" series with Ian Hislop, and Michael Palins "Last Day of WW1" but they let the subject speak for itself, without a hint of the "look at me" that others are prone to.

regards

Tom

(I hope someone at the BBC can find this topic on the forum, so they can see how much the programme was appreciated)

[Roxy]

Getting back to the documentary, if you liked it, let the BBC know too.

Glen

Done. If we don't tell them how good it was, we'll only have ourselves to blame if the BBC don't do any more!

Roxy

[Seadog]

It was indeed a very good programme Tom (Post 107) and all involved are to be congratulated, I hope that this will not be the last we see of the site on TV.

Norman

[Max Poilu]

Again, just to add my thanks for this programme. First new GW production I have watched for some time and very enjoyable it was too. Peter Barton is ideally suited in his move from participant to presenter.

Also to say hello to Jeremy, Iain and the team; you were very kind to show us around last Easter (2012) - couple of pics follow including our slightly aprehensive looking kiddies...

[centurion]

- couple of pics follow including our slightly aprehensive looking kiddies...

I trust you did explain that the mine workings have been checked for Trolls, Kobolds and of course Balrogs?

[BIFFO]

An excellent programme, and a superb job of presentation. now I have noticed comments on peters hat well i`ll tell you this boy

our tom morgan is a sure fire winner on the hat stakes so back to the programme

Biff

[Mick D]

Yes hats off to all involved, absolutely great from all aspects.

Mick

[chrislock]

Truly fascinating stuff. Well done all involved!!

[AndyJohnson]

As everyone has said, an excellent program. Congratulations are in order to Messrs Barton, Doyle, Jones, McHenry and the other less famous names involved.

Good to see the conversion of some of the nay-sayers from a couple of years ago. "But what can this dig possibly add to our knowledge of the conflict" - possibly a little??

Andy

[Max Poilu]

Just to flag up if anyone missed it (or like me wish they'd 'Sky +'d it for keeps) it's repeated tonight at 11.05 PM on BBC4.

[Guest]

" Good to see the conversion of some of the nay-sayers from a couple of years ago."

I'm probably one of them, but it's ok to let oneself be convinced, isn't it? Rather than just accept it, because a well known face or two say so?

"But what can this dig possibly add to our knowledge of the conflict" - possibly a little??

Quite a lot surely. For example, the pride the men took in their work, which Peter Barton put across very well. Who would ever have known that they would have taken such care to have it so square and smooth, right up to the face of the tunnel to be charged. Also to learn of the holes for the men's feet, as they pushed the trolleys, etc etc.

Cheers Mike

[StuartAB]

Just watched it on iPlayer. I really do commend it. Well measured, clearly presented, assuming no previous knowledge. Still on iPlayer for a few days, then you have until June to see it, once down-loaded.

Stuart

[spof]

Or it's on BBC4 again tonight at 23.05.

[roel22]

Saw it yesterday (thanks to my dvr); fabulous piece of work.

Learned a lot about an unknown -but very important- part of the war.

Roel

[Mark Hone]

A fantastic programme, particularly enjoyed by several of my school tour 'veterans' , who had the privilege of a conducted tour of the site, and a venture down W Adit, on our 2011 Somme tour.

[neverforget]

Just to throw my small weight behind the mass of praise and support for the programme. I thoroughly enjoyed it, as I have with all of Peter`s stuff. Not to forget the great crew of researchers etc that he obviously has behind him, I find his presentation and sensitivity to be absolutely spot on, and quite moving at times. I eagerly await his next offering, which hopefully he is busy working on at this very moment !!

[Jim Hastings]

Just managed to watch it this evening as been away working, absolutely rivetting, fantastic. Congratulations to Peter and the team. A poignant and well made programme, I learnt so much and was sorry when it ended.

Mirror other comments in hoping to see more of Peter on our screens, genuine emotion and respect shown by a presenter there, well done all

Thank you

Jim

[steven belfast]

Were would one get one of those hats?

[BIFFO]

Steven ask Tom the Hat Morgan he has a lovely big one

err hat that is

BTW I have the prog on dvd if anyone wants it pm me

Biff