shippingsteel Posted 25 April , 2013 Share Posted 25 April , 2013 S/S, here`s a new addition for you to give me your opinion on as not too sure about it but certainly looks the part Hi Aleck, gee you sure know how to find some doozies ... it takes a certain amount of "faith" to keep buying bayonets that you're not too sure about. It's another interesting example though, and certainly one to provoke some discussion - my take is that it's a Turked M1890 thats been "value-added". I think it's the original M1890 bayonet that has been cutdown (AS.FA indicates the Turkish rework arsenal) with original blade inspections on the spine. Then we have the "sawback" - well I believe thats been added relatively recently to try and add value - apparently they have the machinery to do this. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 25 April , 2013 Share Posted 25 April , 2013 S/S, to tell you the truth that was my take on it when I bought it but you never now, maybe the mad turks did the sawback, cant really see it myself but they certainly did many a conversion, even cutting down sawback butcher bayonets & retaining the sawbacks. Could be mega rare but most probably just anothet curio to add to the modified/bubba part of the collection, did I ever show you the cut down/plated Samsonwerk M1914? Might just have to post this new M1890 oddity on gunboards, sit back & let them discuss it, sure there will be no certain outcome tho, so will be right back where I started or suppose I could email Otto some pics 1st & get his opinion also. Cheers, Aleck P.S. wonder if Daniel got the butcher bayonet yesterday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 25 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 25 April , 2013 The butcher is indeed mine. It is, as far as I can tell, not a 'Turk' but also hopefully not a 'Turkey' either. Pics this evening... Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 25 April , 2013 Share Posted 25 April , 2013 Nice 1 Daniel, cant wait for the pics Looks like you have the bug now, prepare to see your savings dwindle, a large chunk of your house overtaken with pointy/stabby things & a looming divorce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 25 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 25 April , 2013 Nice 1 Daniel, cant wait for the pics Looks like you have the bug now, prepare to see your savings dwindle, a large chunk of your house overtaken with pointy/stabby things & a looming divorce Well, to be honest, I already collected pointy/stabby, but getting bayonets is new. Wish me luck evading surveillance this evening trying to get this into the house! Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 25 April , 2013 Share Posted 25 April , 2013 Daniel, all the best with sneaking it into the house mate. I get mine delivered next door (whenever possible) or hide them in my bag when returning from work, then slip them into the collection & hope the dragon doesnt notice . Its a bit easier now with the amount that I have but ebay only ship to my house, so sometimes there are several awaiting me on my return. Hope you bought a nice 1, they are quite hefty bayonets, I only have 1 of each type of blade- standard, sawback & sawback removed & not mint condition either as these are nearly 100 years old & the been there done that appearance doesnt bother me. Eagerly awaiting pics of your new addition that you hopefully haggled the seller into giving it to you at a large discount Aleck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 25 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 25 April , 2013 So, here it is....and remember, if you can't say anything nice... Looks to be a W, a '15' and a crown, and two small crown proof marks...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 25 April , 2013 Share Posted 25 April , 2013 Hi Daniel. You have a 98/05 alter/art 'old model' (butcher bayonet) made by Simson and Co, Suhl. the W 15 is for Wilhelm 1915 *date of manufacture" Prussian issue, the other marks are probably inspectors marks. The interesting feature is the high ears of the partial muzzle ring. Other models were much lower. regards khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 26 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 April , 2013 Hi Daniel. You have a 98/05 alter/art 'old model' (butcher bayonet) made by Simson and Co, Suhl. the W 15 is for Wilhelm 1915 *date of manufacture" Prussian issue, the other marks are probably inspectors marks. The interesting feature is the high ears of the partial muzzle ring. Other models were much lower. regards khaki Interesting! Does that have any implications re: scarcity, etc? I am assuming this is one that never had the saw back. I'm not sure what people's impressions are about the condition, but I like it. I think I also got a pretty good deal on it too...$55 USD. He has another German bayonet (not sure of the model yet, but different from the two I bought) that is chromed and is labeled as a dress bayonet and comes with its scabbard. Need to look that one up! Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 26 April , 2013 Share Posted 26 April , 2013 Hi Daniel, yes that particular model with the intact "high ears" is less common than your everyday S98/05. I actually just bought a 'brother' from the same maker lot & date.! No this never had the sawback. The condition of the metalwork does appear to be a bit average, but you were compensated for that in the price - I think you got a fair deal. Does the blade look to be darkened by bluing or blackening or is that just corrosion on the metal. Some of these were used in post-war Germany and were mostly darkened. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 26 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 April , 2013 I am not sure if it was blackened or not...the dark toning is not uniform so if I was to hazard a rookie guess I might say oxidation, but then again the handle does look blackened, so perhaps it was blackened and some of that finish wore off with post-war use. So, unlike the first bayonet I picked up, this one likely saw wartime use? Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 26 April , 2013 Share Posted 26 April , 2013 Hello Daniel Your 98/05 is possibly a veteran (bring back) and is definitely a combat blade, the ones that were retained by the Reichswehr Army of the postwar Weimar republic were usually stamped '1920' near the guard and the blade blued. The chrome plated one you mention could be a parade bayonet or possibly a private purchase bayonet that were used as part of a 'walking out' uniform where the blade was more a part of a uniform fashion than actual weapon equipment. Some of these blades were never intended to be 'fixed' to a rifle and as such the locking mechanism may not work. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 26 April , 2013 Share Posted 26 April , 2013 Daniel, like the new blade my friend , have grown to love these old warriors, tend to think the 1s with a bit of age/wear to the have more of a battleground feel than the mint examples (plus they are a lot cheaper, so more bayonets for our bucks). Here is a Simpson sawback, the 1 with sawback removed is Ankerwerke & high eared version is WKC. & just for my good mate S/S, here are few turked examples also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 30 April , 2013 Share Posted 30 April , 2013 Nice photos Aleck. The interesting detail about those Turked examples is that you can see how the crossguards were modified to suit the later Turkish Mauser rifles. The original crossguards were removed and a new "high muzzle ring" version added. The new guard was also positioned closer to the pommel and new grips added. You notice how the guards were originally attached to the blade, being pinned into position. This rework was part of the Turk refurbishment programme in the 30/40s. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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