shippingsteel Posted 15 April , 2013 Share Posted 15 April , 2013 I just knew that you would be along soon Aleck - you have a nose for these darn things.!! You see Daniel, 'Turked' bayonets are a disease you don't wanna catch ... Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 16 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 16 April , 2013 Daniel, Above are a few original german & turk full length bayonets along with cut down/modified hilt turks. If you check out this link, you will find a few pics that may help you avoid buying any more turked bayonets (need updating as few more additons have sneaked in) http://www.surplusri...p?f=84&t=118848 Nice find anyway mate , I find these interesting whereas S/S wakes up with cold sweats over these images but each collector has their own tastes, guess you just need to decide for yourself what you want to collect but beware this can end up in a serious addiction that can be a bit of a drain on finances or end in divorce . Aleck Trajan, S/S, Jscott got a new turk addition on its way that might be of interest to you, will get some pics of it & others that I have picked up (inc. french, austro/hungarian & german) this week as got a few days off Ah, these look much better when not viewed on my phone! I have no idea which I may buy next....who knows? This thread has already been such an education. I will perhaps take Aleck's advice and try not to buy them all so that I do not end up in the dog house... -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 16 April , 2013 Share Posted 16 April , 2013 I have no idea which I may buy next....who knows? Daniel, I may need to get more proactive here to prevent you getting led down the wrong path ... now you have seen the 'darkside' of bayonet collecting. So here is one of my little pretties which I'm posting as an example of what your new acquisition perhaps could have been like in a better, more fortunate life. This could be more your niche, a bayonet that is distinctively Prussian, made at the Royal Arsenal in Erfurt, issued to 10. Rheinisches Infanterie-Regt. Nr.161 Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 16 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 16 April , 2013 Daniel, I may need to get more proactive here to prevent you getting led down the wrong path ... now you have seen the 'darkside' of bayonet collecting. So here is one of my little pretties which I'm posting as an example of what your new acquisition perhaps could have been like in a better, more fortunate life. This could be more your niche, a bayonet that is distinctively Prussian, made at the Royal Arsenal in Erfurt, issued to 10. Rheinisches Infanterie-Regt. Nr.161 Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 16 April , 2013 Share Posted 16 April , 2013 S/S it was Trajan & yourself that turned me to the darkside originally with your provocative pics of turk bayonets but I feel the force is strong in this young 1 so he may just avoid being dragged into to pits of despair that is trying to complete a collection of the endless variations of turked bayonets Think that you will like the new turk, it even comes with a quite rare complete leather frog but will save that for later For now here is another pic to turn your stomach, dare not post pics of the true extent of bubbas (or whoever did the grinding) handiwork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 16 April , 2013 Share Posted 16 April , 2013 To make up for the last images that will scare you for life, here is a thing of beauty (if I ever get time to clean it up), sure S/S will find its faults (which there are) in a flash if the pic can make them out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 16 April , 2013 Share Posted 16 April , 2013 Here is my most interesting "Turked" bayonet... Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 16 April , 2013 Share Posted 16 April , 2013 Nice 1 Chris Really like it, looks like an 1863 whitworth blade on a quillionless turk 1890 hilt? Seems like the only Brit bayonet with a rounded fuller around that time. You not fancy donating it to a poor but overworked turk bayonet collector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 16 April , 2013 Share Posted 16 April , 2013 Here is my most interesting "Turked" bayonet... It certainly is an interesting example - not so much for what it is but for what it has had done to it. Chris posted this before and I believe the markings are spurious. I think it was originally a Turkish M1890 bayonet that has been cutdown, and later had the 'faux' British type markings added, possibly a NWF/Kyber Pass attempt. The small workshops in this area are reknowned for making up complete rifles from old parts and bits and pieces. They add on a few flourishes to gain extra value. To check this out, a measurement across the spine of the blade near the crossguard would assist in determining the source of the blade. The M1890 is quite thick. And if anyone has an example of a British service bayonet of any model that has been marked on the ricasso like that shown, I would definitely like to see a photo. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 16 April , 2013 Share Posted 16 April , 2013 Actually, forget about those measurements - I've just had another look at that ricasso closeup and noticed that they have left a tell-tale that proves the ID. So it is a Turkish M1890 which they have ground back and then stamped those new markings. You can see in the red box the remains of the Arabic script.! I have looked at so many of these Turkish bayonets during my research, I can even say with confidence the blade was made by V.C. Schilling in 1891/92. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N White Posted 17 April , 2013 Share Posted 17 April , 2013 Hey, I've got one of those! Actually, two, with the Turkish script. And there's this other one that just says "solingen"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 17 April , 2013 Share Posted 17 April , 2013 Yup, the lower photo shows 2 cutdown Turkish M1890 bayonets just like Chris' example above. Although by different makers you can see that same Arabic letter. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N White Posted 17 April , 2013 Share Posted 17 April , 2013 As much as it's part of the history, I cant help but cringe when I see a cut down. I especially wish the Serbian 1880 in the 1st pic was still full length! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 17 April , 2013 Share Posted 17 April , 2013 As much as it's part of the history, I cant help but cringe when I see a cut down. Absolutely, and I can't help but agree.!! GW era Turkish bayonets were made to be full-length ... it's like a crime against humanity that they were ever cut-down. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 18 April , 2013 Share Posted 18 April , 2013 S**t happens gents, guess the turks just thought they would be put to better use by modifying the bayonets to extend their military service for the purpose for which they were intended rather than stuck on our walls etc. S/S, looks like you are right about Chis turk bayo , just saw the brit looking markings along especially with the rounded fuller & thought of the later whitworth blade & asumed without checking my reference books or my whitworth bayonet that is was what it resembled. You have once again reminded us of those sly kyber residents with their pesky workshops, turning out very nice fakes to dupe the not so eagle eyed amongst us, cheers mate, might have made Chris a daft offer on it & lost a few quid. Any idea on these maker/markings on 1 of the new turks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 18 April , 2013 Share Posted 18 April , 2013 I think Chris' "turked" bayonet is an awesome example of the Khyber Pass ingenuity - definitely well worth the 'admission price' just to see the extent they will go to.!! And Aleck I think you're trying to trick me again with this latest offering. Sorry mate, I'm way ahead of you & so I will say that's not a bayonet blade, but more of a sword. This is the Ottoman M1909 'Bowl Guard' Sword that was made in Germany and issued to the Cavalry. They are a really nice looking piece of kit ... but so NOT a bayonet. And yes of course I have done the translation, but seeing that you are trying to trick me, than I'm not telling.! C'mon now, "Smart Aleck" show us the rest of the thing.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 19 April , 2013 Share Posted 19 April , 2013 S/S, you never cease to amaze me mate, certainly is a cavalry sword :thumbsup:along with another 1874 bayonet that joins the collection, just cant seem to resist these turk blades C`mon then, now that I have posted pics, spill the beans on the translation of markings, pretty please...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 20 April , 2013 Share Posted 20 April , 2013 Now I am getting worried, either S/S is too busy or he has found something wrong with it & he is searching for confirmation, the later being of most concern. C`mon S/S put me out of my misery & at least let me know the markings before any bad news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 20 April , 2013 Share Posted 20 April , 2013 Actually I am fairly busy ... doing the 'hard yards' as usual ... but hey, the forum is what I like to do when I'm having a break, so what the hell.!! There's nothing wrong with your sword Aleck, its all good apart from the expected wear and tear. Like I said they are a nice looking piece of kit. I really like how the handguard has the star and crescent cut into it. Very simple decoration but states quite effectively it's an Ottoman weapon. Your sword is #9305 in the order for these M1909 cavalry swords, made in 1325 + 584 = 1909. As I said the script indicates "Made in Germany" I'd be more concerned with your leather hanger ... looks more modern to me. And of course the period script would have also been in the Arabic. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 20 April , 2013 Share Posted 20 April , 2013 Cheers S/S, it was the sadle frog/hanger that worried me a bit, wondered about the markings on it but looks the part for now if it is a modern replacement. Which maker is the sword? Try not to work too hard mate, got a 400 mile trip down to paignton in devon ahead of me today, need a new job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 20 April , 2013 Share Posted 20 April , 2013 Yeah thanks. Safe travels to yourself as well ... and you probably will be needing a new (more lucrative) job if you keep buying up all those bayonets. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 20 April , 2013 Share Posted 20 April , 2013 S/S, Bayonets on hold for a bit mate, the dragon is giving me grief about the house looking like a post office depot when I get back but have a couple of interesting turks on the way, hopefully they will be here by the time I return from this little jaunt. Are you going to tell me the swords maker or are you going to keep me waiting until next week? Cheers, Aleck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 20 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 20 April , 2013 So, the plan is to pick up bayonet # 2 on Wednesday, but only if the fellow is willing to negotiate a little. Cross yer fingers! -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 20 April , 2013 Share Posted 20 April , 2013 Those full length Turkish bayonets are certainly attractive. I've opted for the scabbard-less varieties of both the 1890 and 1903 in my collection as they were about 5x cheaper than equivalent versions with scabbards... Any idea why the scabbards for these bayonets are so rare (especially given the German 1898 equivalents generally have scabbards?) PS. Im looking forward to seeing bayonet no.2 soon Daniel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 25 April , 2013 Share Posted 25 April , 2013 Daniel, how did the bayonet buying go? Any new pics for us? Jscott, know what you mean about the price of some bayonets inc. scabbard thats why quite a few in my collection are naked (dont display then in the scabbards anyway), gives me more funds for new additions. S/S, here`s a new addition for you to give me your opinion on as not too sure about it but certainly looks the part- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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