help on dress belt

[FROGSMILE]

It looks like Thistles to me also.

So, why Shamrock and Thistle lace on Suffolk Regiment ladies belts? Would we not expect Rose Lace to be associated with the Suffolk Regt?

Yes, I think you could well be correct that one of the Suffolks ladies was wearing shamrock lace and the other thistle lace, I suspect these were subtle ways for the ladies to show their origins. All three patterns of National lace (see below) could be obtained from any of the regimental tailors that were in abundance in those times.

Looking as the various examples, do you think the belt lace was available with the lace pattern being a rose for England, a thistle for Scotland, a shamrock for Ireland, and presumably a leek or daffodile for Wales ? With this being either based on the origin/location of the regiment or the preference of the wearer.

Regards,

LF

There were (and still are) three patterns of 'National Lace' worn by Line infantry and they were aligned/associated with the three facing colours introduced in 1881. The English and Welsh Line regiments officers were to wear gold (or black if Rifles) rose lace with white facings. The Scottish regiments were to wear gold (or black if Rifles) thistle lace with yellow facings. The Irish regiments were to wear gold (or black if Rifles) shamrock lace with green facings. Caveats were that Royal regiments were to have dark blue facings and Rifle regiments regimental rather than National facing colours.

There was also a pattern of oakleaf lace, but I do not have my books to hand to confirm the circumstances in which it was worn? It seems likely that the oakleaf was chosen for indigenous to all of the UK/GB and it was certainly used for some cap bands and trouser and tunic lacing.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Frogsmile,

Thank you for the explanation.

Regards,

LF

[gordon92]

There was also a pattern of oakleaf lace, but I do not have my books to hand to confirm the circumstances in which it was worn? It seems likely that the oakleaf was chosen for indigenous to all of the UK/GB and it was certainly used for some cap bands and trouser and tunic lacing.

There is an oakleaf lace pattern cited in the 1900 Dress Regulations. It is pattern #1 in the plates that was stipulated to be worn by Field Marshalls, Generals, ADC to the Queen plus the 1st and 2nd Life Guards.

[squirrel]

Same in 1911 Dress regulations for the Army also.

[FROGSMILE]

Thank you gordon and squirrel. That makes sense. It was also used as a universal pattern lace in both gold and black, as a cap band for non-Royal regiments of infantry, rather that using the National lace.