Muerrisch Posted 6 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 6 March , 2012 Yes, it should be, but it's the only one that Grumpy has got wrong for circa 1914, so he should be forgiven. DF was replaced by RDF in 1903, around the same time that the regiment adopted a green and white plume in its fur cap. I took the view, owning both the titles, and having the great respect for the OCs that I have, that a 1903 vintage was to be preferred. The reason being that, as new were introduced, existing stocks were used up first, and the old soldiers would certainly not push and shove to change a shiny DF for a "new" [and therefore suspect, and denoting "recent recruit"] RDF at the first opportunity. When I do a re-arrange, I will add the RDF to cover both bases. You will probably agree that uniformity only went so far, and three-badge old sweats got away with a lot! Unfortunately I have NOT got a RDF group photo showing my "Old Paddy" with RD up! If anyone has, MAKE MY DAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 6 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 6 March , 2012 Should anyone want a mint copy of Westlake's bible on S/Ts, "Collecting Metal Shoulder Titles", autographed by Ray, I understand that Tom Morgan has a few mint copies which he will offer in Sales and Wants. In my opinion this book will never be surpassed on the subject "and much more" as they say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioneecorps Posted 6 March , 2012 Share Posted 6 March , 2012 Good display. Do you have a date for when the Royal Berkshires used that type of badge backing? I think it may be post 1930. Regards, Paul. Hi Paul Hope GRUMPY don't mind be having a go at this one, as he as all ready explained in his post, I'm stiil trying work out "anomalous . Don't know if its any use to you, this is what I have on the Royal Berkshires; The Duke of Edinburgh's Royal Regiment ( Berkshire and Wiltshire ). A red inverted triangle 1 3/4 at top by 2 3/8 height, badge backing was retained following the amalgamation on the 9th June 1956 of the Royal Berkshire Regiment with the Wiltshire Regiment, it was also decided that DERR collar badges would be the same as the cap badge " China Dragons facing inwards. To match the cap badge backings, the collar are backed by a red square backing cut close to the edge of the badge. This flash is known as the Brandy Wine flash and commemorates the night action by the Light Company of the 49th Hertfordshire Regiment of Foot, later to become the 1st Berkshire 49th, as a result of the Cardwell reforms of 1880 at Brandywine Creek on the Delaware River in 1777, the Light Companies involved in this unorthodox and successful night action dyed their green feathers red to identity themselves to the enraged American colonists, who had threatened no quarter to the attacking soldiers. This tradition is maintained also by C Royal Berkshire Company of 2nd Battalion the Wessex Regiment V who continue to wear the Brandywine flash with their Wyvern cap badge, The Wyvern was part dragon and part serpent, and it dates back to the dark ages. Cheers. Gerwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Ring Posted 6 March , 2012 Share Posted 6 March , 2012 My Westlake says DF changed to RDF in 1903, and where possible I have used an "old" title, but young enough to be worn by an old contemptible. Either DF or RDF would be OK, in fact I have both. Westlake says "by the end of the Great War" your version was in issue. So, not OK for 1914, but OK for later. I am no expert, I rely on Mr W.! Grumpy Thank you. Just what I wanted to hear. Tony Yes, I think it is anomalous, good spot. Only a matter of 40 years or so ...... it got a bit pricey towards the end. I only use very reputable dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 6 March , 2012 Share Posted 6 March , 2012 I took the view, owning both the titles, and having the great respect for the OCs that I have, that a 1903 vintage was to be preferred. The reason being that, as new were introduced, existing stocks were used up first, and the old soldiers would certainly not push and shove to change a shiny DF for a "new" [and therefore suspect, and denoting "recent recruit"] RDF at the first opportunity. When I do a re-arrange, I will add the RDF to cover both bases. You will probably agree that uniformity only went so far, and three-badge old sweats got away with a lot! Unfortunately I have NOT got a RDF group photo showing my "Old Paddy" with RD up! If anyone has, MAKE MY DAY! I am puzzled a bit by your reply Grumpy. If you apply that logic then you would need to do the same for all the other regiments that changed their ST in the years leading up to WW1. It was not just the RDF who changed in that window. Westlake is unequivocal on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 6 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 6 March , 2012 I am puzzled a bit by your reply Grumpy. If you apply that logic then you would need to do the same for all the other regiments that changed their ST in the years leading up to WW1. It was not just the RDF who changed in that window. Westlake is unequivocal on that. Ah! But I own the pre 1903 and the post 1903 and chose the older. In the other Westlake cases, I only have the one or the other out of two possibilities. Perhaps one day I will have the lot ...... have to sell another set of medals though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 6 March , 2012 Share Posted 6 March , 2012 Should anyone want a mint copy of Westlake's bible on S/Ts, "Collecting Metal Shoulder Titles", autographed by Ray, I understand that Tom Morgan has a few mint copies which he will offer in Sales and Wants. In my opinion this book will never be surpassed on the subject "and much more" as they say My 6 mint copies are now offered for sale in the "GWF Classifieds" section, in the 'Publications (books and websites)' sub-forum. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 6 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 6 March , 2012 the Guards caps and shoulders are among this lot, except the correct GG with grenade which awaits the next wrecking and remounting exercise. and, NO! I have not yet got a GMGR badge ....... awaiting granting of application for re-mortgage on house .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 6 March , 2012 Share Posted 6 March , 2012 Aghh.... Grumpy without GMGR cap badge then your mortal soul is incomplete! I have one bought many years ago from Bosleys and paid for it! Not sure if my soul is complete though!!!!!???? TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinhat47 Posted 8 March , 2012 Share Posted 8 March , 2012 Superb collection! Now you just need all the corps badges and titles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 8 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 8 March , 2012 Superb collection! Now you just need all the corps badges and titles Because of family medals I did bag RFA, ASC and MGC caps and shoulders many years ago ....... but they are in the medal frames .......... and not in the house, for obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 8 March , 2012 Share Posted 8 March , 2012 Thanks again for posting these Grumpy. I have a fledgling collection of regimental badges from WW1 which I would love to (slowly) grow, and your posts have been very informative. One question - I know that a lot of these badges were unchanged from WW1 up to the 1940s, 50s or even 60s. Is there anything in particular that you looked for in these badges to ensure that they were WW1 vintage? I tend to go for badges with a very solid patina, and try to only purchase from sellers with a very good reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 9 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 9 March , 2012 Thanks again for posting these Grumpy. I have a fledgling collection of regimental badges from WW1 which I would love to (slowly) grow, and your posts have been very informative. One question - I know that a lot of these badges were unchanged from WW1 up to the 1940s, 50s or even 60s. Is there anything in particular that you looked for in these badges to ensure that they were WW1 vintage? I tend to go for badges with a very solid patina, and try to only purchase from sellers with a very good reputation. The short answer is, of course, one never knows. I have no great hang-up about patina, partly because I clean -up* every badge as I receive it unless it is already fit to show: that is, gleaming but not polished. Often, a rub face-down on dry kitchen roll does it. I only deal with folk who have a no-quibbles return policy. The other thing is that, except for the Irish regiments, it remains scarcely worth-while for repros.* to be knocked off if they are to change hands at £7, as many of mine did.There is a lot of paranoia about restrikes. Naval Division, yes. Pals yes. Some 1916 economy strikes yes. But the Blankshires, just perhaps. I do find the reverses instructive, however. For the price of 2 or 3 badges, the two Peter Doyle books are invaluable ...... K&K overrated* in my opinion. [that's three sacrileges in one post, at * above.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 9 March , 2012 Share Posted 9 March , 2012 Thanks very much! (Head now back below the parapet) Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 9 March , 2012 Share Posted 9 March , 2012 Thanks Grumpy! Very helpful indeed. And by chance I ordered Peter's book yesterday after seeing a few of the pages in an online summary. It looks excellent. Oh and hello Peter, Im looking forward to reading your book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 9 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 9 March , 2012 Thanks Grumpy! Very helpful indeed. And by chance I ordered Peter's book yesterday after seeing a few of the pages in an online summary. It looks excellent. Oh and hello Peter, Im looking forward to reading your book! Sorry to bother you, but there are TWO books: Great War, and WW II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofacqms Posted 9 March , 2012 Share Posted 9 March , 2012 'Sonofacqms' Nice to see a good collection of original badges, I need a title "17L" to complete my Cavalry 1914 line up, can offer good original Cap badges and titles for exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 9 March , 2012 Share Posted 9 March , 2012 Sorry to bother you, but there are TWO books: Great War, and WW II. Yes I saw that - I will have to stick to WW1 for the time being unfortunately! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioneecorps Posted 9 March , 2012 Share Posted 9 March , 2012 There is a lot of paranoia about restrikes Hi GRUMPY After the first cap badge as been struck, wouldn't it then make the rest of them restrikes . Regards. Gerwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 10 March , 2012 Share Posted 10 March , 2012 Going back a few posts if anyone has not ordered a copy of Ray Westlakes book mentioned, I recieved my copy yesterday in mint and signed condition. STRONGLY recommended you get one before they run out. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 15 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 15 March , 2012 Readers will recall that I did not choose to show the post-1903 Royal Dublin Fusilers RDF S/T. Herewith, with its DF predecessor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 15 March , 2012 Share Posted 15 March , 2012 Readers will recall that I did not choose to show the post-1903 Royal Dublin Fusilers RDF S/T. Herewith, with its DF predecessor. Best show all the other regiments predecessor titles now then Grumpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 15 March , 2012 Share Posted 15 March , 2012 My local battalion(s)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 15 March , 2012 Author Share Posted 15 March , 2012 Best show all the other regiments predecessor titles now then Grumpy Only if they could feasibly have been worn by an old contemptible, say issued and then superceded in the 20 years before 1914 ..... I will compare Westlake with my odds and sods box. Irritatingly, I have the "next but one" RDF bi-metal Quail, but not the version in GM only. Scarce as rocking horse by-product? Anybody? My local battalion(s)... VERY nice, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johno7439 Posted 16 March , 2012 Share Posted 16 March , 2012 Just found this thread, GRUMPY, I doff my cap to you, what a wonderful collection, something to be very proud of. Seeing this has now re-focussed and re-started my project of collecting all capbadges of British Battalions that served in Mesopotamia. I would like to expand this to include Indian Infantry Capbadges, however I will probably have to seek the boss' permission. Your's Aye Ewan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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