The 26TH Yankee Posted 9 February , 2012 Share Posted 9 February , 2012 Hi guys. Nice to get a chance to talk with some of you. I've been looking forward to it, especially since there are people from all over the world! I haven't been collecting very long at all. Up until now, I have always been a collector of things from The American Civil War and the American Revolutionary War. Having had a Great Uncle who fought in France during the Great War, I have now concentrated my attention on that. Mostly on bayonets. I just bought a British 1907 pattern today, can't wait till it gets here. My goal is to eventually get a bayonet from every country that fought in that war, both sides. Not just A bayonet, but every type used. As you know, the US had the M1917 and the Springfield 1905. I have the Remington M1917, a German "butcher blade", and the British 1907. I have a few questions if I may. 1. Does the British 1907 fit all the models of Lee Enfields made, and is it the only one Great Britain used? 2. Did Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc. have their own bayonets, or did they use British ones? I'm a newbie at this gentlemen, so, I would appreciate anything you could tell me. Thank you. Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 9 February , 2012 Share Posted 9 February , 2012 (edited) I have a few questions if I may. 1. Does the British 1907 fit all the models of Lee Enfields made, and is it the only one Great Britain used? 2. Did Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc. have their own bayonets, or did they use British ones? I'm a newbie at this gentlemen, so, I would appreciate anything you could tell me. Thank you. Steven Hi Steven 1) Yes, the P1907 will fit all SMLE rifles manufactured in the UK, Australia and India. It will not fit earlier (long) Magazine Lee Enfields and Metfords, nor the earlier Lee Enfield Carbines. The long rifles and some carbines all took the P1888 bayonet. The P1907 will also not fit the later (WWII) No4/5 series of rifles. The Pattern 1903 Bayonet will also fit the SMLE but was made in much smaller numbers and is consequently harder to find. It should be noted that manufacturing tolerances (and age/abuse etc) means that the "fit" between rifle and bayonet varies from very tight to very loose - although most are fine. 2) Australia India and the UK all produced P1907 bayonets (they were also produced in the USA by Remington) Canada produced bayonets for her Ross rifle (which saw limited use) but in terms of P1907 bayonets they were not produced in Canada or New Zealand - those nations (and South Africa etc) were issued with British/Indian/Australian/US made bayonets but they can often be found stamped with national property marks C for Canada, U for South Africa, NZ for New...you get it! In terms of supply little attention was paid to the maker/origin of the weapons beyond availablity so British or Canadian troops might well have had Indian made weapons and vice versa -- although obviously troops leaving from home would (all things being equal) probably be likely to have weapons originating in the same country as them. Once supply/resupply/salvage in theatre kicked in - no attention was paid to this and it is undoubtedly of far more interest to collectors than it was to the Army. Hope this helps get you started - I am sure others will be along Chris edit: added a qualifying comment Edited 9 February , 2012 by 4thGordons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 9 February , 2012 Share Posted 9 February , 2012 Hi Steven Nice goal! I had a similar plan when I started collecting bayonets just over a year ago and it is a very slippery slope indeed. To obtain "every type of bayonet used" in WW1 would take quite some time - the Germans alone had hundreds of different types (if you include the ersatz bayonets), and many of these are extremely rare and expensive. If you are only after the main bayonets used by each nation involved it would be a much more feasible task. I have also tried to narrow the scope further by focusing on bayonets that would likely have seen "front line" service, and which have - as far as possible - remained in the same form they were in during the war (ie blades not shortened, quillons not removed post war etc). Anyway, its a fascinating field and there are some experts on this forum who I am sure will be more than happy to help you with your queries. I would be very interested to see a list of your goal bayonets if you ever put it down on paper... I presume that you must be pleasantly surprised by the price of WW1 bayonets if you are used to collecting Civil War memorabilia? J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 26TH Yankee Posted 10 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 10 February , 2012 Thank you very much for your help gentlemen, it is greatly appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 February , 2012 Share Posted 10 February , 2012 Steven, Welcome to the bayonet club! As has already been hinted at, you are now on a very slippery slope! However, I would think that you will have a much better chance of getting a set of the main WWI bayonets in the US of A than you would in the UK - and certainly much better than in Turkey! As it is, you certainly have the starters, and I would suggest your next step should be to start looking for an Austro-Hungarian Mannlicher 1895, a French Lebel, a Turkish 1890, and a Russian Nagent socket bayonet (not necessarily in that order!). That will give you the basic set of the main types, and then you can start looking for the other more than 70 types and variations that saw service in WWI! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 10 February , 2012 Share Posted 10 February , 2012 Hey Trajan, I just thought I'd let you know that I've been preparing for another round of the old Sword Bayonets of the GW thread so that should add a few more varieties.! Its still a work in progress, but all the requirements are now in place - just that every new batch of bayonets means more time with the cleaning etc - but shouldn't be long. Hopefully all you guys will join in and test out all your newfound knowledge. I've been searching out quite a few tricky ones for this time round, determined to catch Gaz out.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 10 February , 2012 Share Posted 10 February , 2012 Hi S>S, I may have an interesting bayonet for this thread as well. Picked it up recently and def not something you see every day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 26TH Yankee Posted 10 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 10 February , 2012 Steven, Welcome to the bayonet club! As has already been hinted at, you are now on a very slippery slope! However, I would think that you will have a much better chance of getting a set of the main WWI bayonets in the US of A than you would in the UK - and certainly much better than in Turkey! As it is, you certainly have the starters, and I would suggest your next step should be to start looking for an Austro-Hungarian Mannlicher 1895, a French Lebel, a Turkish 1890, and a Russian Nagent socket bayonet (not necessarily in that order!). That will give you the basic set of the main types, and then you can start looking for the other more than 70 types and variations that saw service in WWI! Trajan Thank you Trajan. I just moved those 4 suggestions to the top of the list. You're correct, getting them here in the US is the easy part. It's the PAYING for them all that's killing me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 26TH Yankee Posted 10 February , 2012 Author Share Posted 10 February , 2012 Hi Steven Nice goal! I had a similar plan when I started collecting bayonets just over a year ago and it is a very slippery slope indeed. To obtain "every type of bayonet used" in WW1 would take quite some time - the Germans alone had hundreds of different types (if you include the ersatz bayonets), and many of these are extremely rare and expensive. If you are only after the main bayonets used by each nation involved it would be a much more feasible task. I have also tried to narrow the scope further by focusing on bayonets that would likely have seen "front line" service, and which have - as far as possible - remained in the same form they were in during the war (ie blades not shortened, quillons not removed post war etc). Anyway, its a fascinating field and there are some experts on this forum who I am sure will be more than happy to help you with your queries. I would be very interested to see a list of your goal bayonets if you ever put it down on paper... I presume that you must be pleasantly surprised by the price of WW1 bayonets if you are used to collecting Civil War memorabilia? J Hi J, thanks for the reply. I'm starting to see the wisdom of just getting the "main" bayonets. I also do as you do when it comes to buying things that "likely have seen front line service". To me, if it wasn't there, it isn't really part of history, but, that's just me. You are also quite correct about the price of WWI items as opposed to the Civil War. Like my wife says "why does everything you do have to cost so much, why don't you just collect Sea Shells"?..lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 10 February , 2012 Share Posted 10 February , 2012 Hi S>S, I may have an interesting bayonet for this thread as well. Picked it up recently and def not something you see every day... Send me a PM with the details, I'd sure like to see what it is, and then we'll see if we can work it in. Of course if you post it here you'll 'let the cat out of the bag'.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 I've been searching out quite a few tricky ones for this time round, determined to catch Gaz out.! You can try mate, you can try. I am always up for a challenge Steven I started out with the idea to have one bayonet to represent a country.... I hate to say it but it might not work out that way. They multiply worse than rabbits I still haven't covered the main countries yet, I still have Japan, Russia, Canada, Serbia and Belgium and maybe Portugal if I can find a Vergueiro bayonet. I keep getting sidetrack with other ones from countries I already have. I now have UK, 1888 x2 1907 x2 France Lebel, Gras 1874 and Chassepot 1866 x2 German, S98 quillback, S14 and S98/05 N/a Turkey M1890 Italy M1891TS Austro-Hungary M95 USA P17 Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 You can try mate, you can try. I am always up for a challenge Ha, Ha - yeah I enjoyed the last time round, it was fun.! But I've really got you in my sights this time Gaz ... [insert EVIL laugh here.!] Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 I have the feeling my confidence may have gotten the better of me this time. Let hope the fall from grace doesn't hurt too much If you are planning any Ersatz variations or Mauser export bayonets, I'm stumped already at the thought of them. I hold my hands up as anything pointy for the Mauser just confuses me. I am going bayonet shopping after I get paid at the end of this month, I worked my fair share of overtime these last few months... so the lord only knows what I might bring home with me. Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 Warm up then Gaz?........ Nothing out of the ordinary...more or less to scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 I am going bayonet shopping after I get paid at the end of this month, I worked my fair share of overtime these last few months... so the lord only knows what I might bring home with me. Best of luck with that - I think you must be due a nice find or two.! I'm done with my 'shopping' for a little while - now just got to go through everything and give it a spruce up. Fun, fun, fun ... Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 Nothing out of the ordinary...more or less to scale Is that using the same new flash setup.? Doesn't seem to work as good on the reflective metalwork as it did on the rifles.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 Is that using the same new flash setup.? Doesn't seem to work as good on the reflective metalwork as it did on the rifles.? Cheers, S>S No these are older ones I was sorting through and replacing - getting ready to do some proper shots. You are correct - too much glare on these - but shape is sufficient for ID I think Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 I thought that new flash gave excellent results for the rifles and was waiting to see how it would work with the metalwork on the bayonets, which as you know can be a problem.! No the ID's should be no problem at all - thats funny though, Gaz seems to have rapidly made himself scarce - must have suddenly decided that it was way past his bedtime.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 It was 3am UK time S>S here are my guesses, Italy M1891 UK 1888 US/UK p13/M1917 Japan Type 30 German S98/05 N/a Austro-Hungary M1895 Not sure Germany S84/95 mit sage France Berthier m1892 Turkey Shortened 1890 Italy 1871/87/16 UK P1903 Russia M1891 France M1886/16 Canada Ross not sure of the mark Fance Lebel 1886 Chilean M1912 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 If you are planning any Ersatz variations or Mauser export bayonets, I'm stumped already at the thought of them. I hold my hands up as anything pointy for the Mauser just confuses me. Gaz was spot on - right down to which identification was going to be his major weakness. Maybe he needs a hint - hows about rainforests and coffee ... mmm, gotta love that coffee.! PS. "It was 3am UK time S>S " - You just gettin' back in from clubbin' then ... Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 11 February , 2012 Share Posted 11 February , 2012 Gaz was spot on - right down to which identification was going to be his major weakness. Maybe he needs a hint - hows about rainforests and coffee ... mmm, gotta love that coffee.! PS. "It was 3am UK time S>S " - You just gettin' back in from clubbin' then ... Cheers, S>S well I was going to go with "nuts" myself (as the most appropriate clue)... but coffee will work! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 12 February , 2012 Share Posted 12 February , 2012 Well I know Gaz is definitely "nuts" (thats a little unkind Chris.!) but as I was just enjoying my morning coffee, it seemed to be on my mind ... Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 12 February , 2012 Share Posted 12 February , 2012 I had just got in from a night, thought I'd have a quick look on here before bed well given the clues it's a Brazilian M1908 Like I said, Mauser bayonets just give me a headache. Given the Germans were so organised and meticulous in things they weren't half chaotic in bayonets. Aren't the first and won't be the last to call me that I take it as a compliment in this hobby... means I fit in with you guys just fine Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 12 February , 2012 Share Posted 12 February , 2012 Aren't the first and won't be the last to call me that I take it as a compliment in this hobby... means I fit in with you guys just fine You're a good man Gaz - and that niggling is just like water off a ducks back, hey.! And giving back as good as you get shows true "bayonet collectors" characteristics.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 12 February , 2012 Share Posted 12 February , 2012 Real nice looking set of bayonet you got there Chris Here is 1 for you lot to identify, been altered & its rough but no sure how bad it will be until it gets here Cheers, Aleck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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