shippingsteel Posted 7 April , 2011 Share Posted 7 April , 2011 Well I've had this quite large pile of rusting milsurp sitting on my workbench for the past several weeks, cluttering up the place and generally getting in the way. Mostly they were newly acquired stuff that are in need of a good clean and some minor restoration, which I've been steadily working through in my spare time. I am now very pleased to say that the job is finally complete, and its time for me to take some group photos as part of the class 'graduation ceremony'.! They are a very diverse bunch, nothing too special or overly rare, just good representative types that I've been picking up to broaden the collection somewhat. This got me thinking that without much extra effort, and with a few additions from some other piles that I've got close to hand, I could create quite a broad display. It wouldn't be a comprehensive list of every bayonet used in the war, but would include most of the sword-type bayonets generally used by the major armies involved. Just for a bit of fun, I was wondering if anyone would be keen on participating in something like a quiz to test your knowledge of the bayonets and maybe learn a little as well. If there was enough interest, I would arrange the necessary photos and organise the 'competition' etc. You could think of it like the "World Cup of Bayonet Spotting".! Anyway let me know who's up for a challenge ..... or otherwise I may just put it back in the too hard basket - would be a shame to miss out on all that fun, though.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_H Posted 7 April , 2011 Share Posted 7 April , 2011 Thanks SS, that's a great offer, come on the rest of you, give some encouragement! I'm sure there are plenty of collectors out there to join in and even if bayonets aren't your particular thing you stand to expand your knowledge. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 7 April , 2011 Share Posted 7 April , 2011 I'm up for it. I've learned an awful lot from you guys on bayonets and ammunition over the past few months - which is extremely handy given I'm currently doing an audit of all our edged weapons, firearms and ammuntion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 7 April , 2011 Share Posted 7 April , 2011 Challenge accepted Looking forward to it. Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 7 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 7 April , 2011 Thats the spirit lads, and I'm sure there will be a few others getting involved once they see what I have in mind - nothing too extreme I can assure you, I'll be keeping it pretty low-key. So to clarify, I will be taking some photos of groups of bayonets (20 all up), and then will be asking you guys to identify the nationality, pattern/model and the rifle that it matches with. That will form the basic questions for each bayonet, and then there will be some selected bonus questions about certain bayonets common names, variants, makers locations, etc, etc. So thats the outline, any thoughts.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 8 April , 2011 Share Posted 8 April , 2011 Begin by posting images for us. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 8 April , 2011 Share Posted 8 April , 2011 It combines two of my interested, firearms and bayonets. What I don't know I will learn from it. Its a win win situation Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 8 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 8 April , 2011 It combines two of my interested, firearms and bayonets. What I don't know I will learn from it. Its a win win situation You're sounding very confident Gaz, I may now have to ratchet up the level of difficulty just for you.! Yes the images - well I'm slowly getting around to that, just spent most of the afternoon clearing things away and getting myself and the subjects organised. There will be 4 rounds consisting each of 1 photo illustrating 5 individual bayonets from the armies of the Great War. They each need to be correctly identified. For each correct answer provided 1 point will be allocated, however to overcome the problem of the 'early bird getting all the worms' I'll be using a handicapping system.! Obviously the first respondent will be scooping up all the available low-hanging fruit, so for that early opportunity they will be given a 5 point handicap deduction from their score. Likewise the second respondent will face a 2 point handicap deduction, and the third respondent will have only the 1 point handicap deducted from their score - Capiche.!! Once all the bayonets and their rifles have been correctly identified, I will then post the bonus questions for each round. Some of these may be more difficult to answer ie. 'techie'. So thats the general gist of it - are there any questions.? You should expect the 1st Round photo to be posted sometime tomorrow morning so keep your eyes peeled for that. As soon as the photo hits the board then its "Game On" gentlemen.! Please feel free to offer your best ID's and remember to keep it clean and in the spirit of the game, etc, etc.! PS. Oh I nearly forgot the disclaimer - "ALL correspondence will be entered into, but the judges decision WILL be Final.!" Cheers, S>S EDIT. Please note Rule change mid-game to level the playing field, forced by Garron and his early 'heavy-hitting' responses (studying up will NOT be tolerated.!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 9 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 9 April , 2011 As promised, here are the first 5 bayonets for Round 1. I'm looking for the Nationality of each, Pattern/Model number, and the obvious Rifle each would attach to. Good Luck.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 9 April , 2011 Share Posted 9 April , 2011 1) German, S1898, Mauser G98. 2) British Pattern 1907, SMLE. 3) American, M1903 Springfield M1903. 4) Prehaps Belgian... 5) Candian, 1910 Mk2, Ross Rifle. Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 9 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 9 April , 2011 1) German, S1898, Mauser G98. 2) British Pattern 1907, SMLE. 3) American, M1903 Springfield M1903. 4) Prehaps Belgian... 5) Candian, 1910 Mk2, Ross Rifle. Not a bad effort Gaz, watch those spelling mistakes, ha ha ... I've marked the correct answers in Blue, incorrect in Red, and no you can't have another shot. Let someone else try to get the rest right, shall we. So you got the 9 answers correct less the -5 handicap deduction for getting in early - which leaves you with the grand total of 4 points. Well done.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_H Posted 9 April , 2011 Share Posted 9 April , 2011 1) Germany, s98 for Gew 98 rifle (Is that Aa with one piece grip or Na with two grips? Can't quite be sure from pic) 2) Britain, Pattern 1907 for the SMLE rifle. 3) USA, P1905 for the P1903 Springfield Rifle 4) France(usage) USA (manufacture) 1902 pattern bayonet for the 1902 Remington rolling block rifle (originaly in 7mm for export to Mexico & various South American countries. Supplied in 8mm calibre to France early in WW1.) 5) Canada, 1910 Mk.II modified 1915 for Ross 1905 rifle. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 9 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 9 April , 2011 I have a few more questions regarding the first 5 bayonets. You might like to have a crack at these as well Gaz. That was a good guess for 4, similar type quillon. Anyway I need for No.1 the Common name, as well as the specific Model variant.? For No.3 I'd like to know which period these certain finish blades were made in.? With No.4 could somebody tell me who the Maker of this particular bayonet was.? And for No.5 I'm looking for the Common name/designation for this model bayonet.? So thats all I've got for now, talk to you again tomorrow. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 9 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 9 April , 2011 1) Germany, s98 for Gew 98 rifle (Is that Aa with one piece grip or Na with two grips? Can't quite be sure from pic) 2) Britain, Pattern 1907 for the SMLE rifle. 3) USA, P1905 for the P1903 Springfield Rifle 4) France(usage) USA (manufacture) 1902 pattern bayonet for the 1902 Remington rolling block rifle (originaly in 7mm for export to Mexico & various South American countries. Supplied in 8mm calibre to France early in WW1.) 5) Canada, 1910 Mk.II modified 1915 for Ross 1905 rifle. You've pretty well got it all covered there Mike, just a couple of minor things missing. (With No.1 you need to look behind the crossguard as well as at the grips) Also the Americans use the Model designation instead of the Pattern number, so it should really be the M1905 bayonet for the Springfield rifle. The French did use No.4 on the Rolling Block rifle and gave the bayonet their own particular designation, which I'm still looking for. Likewise with No.5 it is the particular Pattern number that I'm after in this case, got any ideas.? So Mike you added an additional 4 correct answers less the 2 point handicapping penalty, meaning you scored 2 points - not bad.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_H Posted 9 April , 2011 Share Posted 9 April , 2011 S>S Thanks for all the effort you are putting into this. Your supplementary on the US M1905, the pre War production (for the Americans 1905 to 1917) had polished blades and from 1917 onwards they were Parkerised. The Remington rolling block, the French probably called it Baionette Mle 1914? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 9 April , 2011 Share Posted 9 April , 2011 Thanks S>S. I'll take a stab at the 1st extra credit (I'll get my coat, very bad pun) 1, 'Quillback' and its A/a as it doesn't seem to have the thin metal plate between the cross guard and the grip. (Your hint did help once I came around after last night, Vodka is a terrible thing) I'm out on the other ones though, I know what pointy things attach on what bang-sticks but the finer details somewhat allude me. Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N White Posted 9 April , 2011 Share Posted 9 April , 2011 Number 4 made by Hopkins and Allen of Norwich CT? I keep meaning to pick one up as they were made not terribly far from here, but amusingly all the European bayonets have been more plentiful and cheaper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 9 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 9 April , 2011 Number 4 made by Hopkins and Allen of Norwich CT? I keep meaning to pick one up as they were made not terribly far from here, but amusingly all the European bayonets have been more plentiful and cheaper! They do look very similar and both made in the US around the same time (I think they may have copied.!) however this one is made by Remington for the Rolling Block rifle. The Hopkins and Allen bayonet was made to go with the Belgian M1889 Mauser rifles which they made during the war. The slight difference is in the pommel and the quillon. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 9 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 9 April , 2011 So with the supplementary questions, Mike and Gaz are both on the money. Mike gets 2 points for covering the M1905 and the Remington bayonet, just missed on the French model designation though. Gaz also gets the 2 points for identifying the Quillback as being the early aA (alter art) version with the one-piece timber grip. Mike and Gaz both identified the common designation for the Ross bayonet earlier on, as being the Mk.II so I will split that extra point between them. But I'm still looking for the Pattern number for the Ross bayonet, and the French Model designation for the Remington bayonet. The Round 2 photo will hit the board again tomorrow morning GMT. We welcome anybody who wants to get involved - these guys need some competition.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 10 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 10 April , 2011 But I'm still looking for the Pattern number for the Ross bayonet, and the French Model designation for the Remington bayonet.? So to wrap up the final questions for Round 1, the missing answers are the P1911 for the Ross bayonet (5) and the Mle.1915 for the French Remington bayonet (4). Here is the new photo for Round 2, again I'm looking for the Nationality of each, the Pattern/Model number and the obvious Rifle each bayonet would attach to. PS. There are a few familiar ones shown here just to see if anyone has been paying the proper attention.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 10 April , 2011 Share Posted 10 April , 2011 German, M1871 for the M1871 Mauser and used on the Gewehr 88 British, P1907 with clearance hole and prehaps a removed quillions as to me it looks different, SMLE American, P1905, Post 1917 made as it looks parkerised, Springfield M1903 French, M1892 for the Berthier rifle 1892 and 1916 Britsh P1888 for any rifle with a Rigby pattern nose cap, Martini Enfield, Lee Metford, Long Lee Enfield and Charger loading lee enfield. Thanks for doing this Im also working out what I need for my one bayonet for each country collection Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 10 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 10 April , 2011 German, M1871 for the M1871 Mauser and used on the Gewehr 88 British, P1907 with clearance hole and prehaps a removed quillions as to me it looks different, SMLE American, P1905, Post 1917 made as it looks parkerised, Springfield M1903 French, M1892 for the Berthier rifle 1892 and 1916 Britsh P1888 for any rifle with a Rigby pattern nose cap, Martini Enfield, Lee Metford, Long Lee Enfield and Charger loading lee enfield. Gaz have you been studying up again.? Because there goes all my supplementary questions out the window dammit ..... oh well. I'll have to mark you extra hard for that misdemeanor. Like the P1907 hasn't got a clearance hole and the French bayonet doesn't even fit a rifle, so there.! PS. The Martini-Enfield rifle took a socket bayonet, except for the Artillery Carbine version which fitted the P1888 bayonet. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_H Posted 10 April , 2011 Share Posted 10 April , 2011 Hi got up too late! Re no. 9 its for the Mannlicher Berthier carbine 1892. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 10 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 10 April , 2011 Yes Mike that's correct, thanks for showing up, couldn't let Gaz wipe the board completely.! (The M1892 carbine was also known as a 'Musquetoon'.) I've just had to rewrite my bonus questions so they may be a little from left-field but here goes. My theme for these has now become Variants and Grips. For bayonet numbers 7, 9 and 10 could you tell me which specific model, variant or version of their type they are.? And for numbers 6, 8 and 9 i am looking for the material their grips are made of, and the period of manufacture of 8's grips in particular.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 10 April , 2011 Share Posted 10 April , 2011 Yep I've been studying, so I know what I need to buy for my collection. Oops Sorry, you said about paying extra attention, so I did Its a unit marking not a hole... damn I wasn't sure. I knew one of the M-E took the P1888 wasn't sure if it was the rifle or the carbine. Some did take regular bayonets too, P1887 and some others too cant remember the designations for them. Gaz Not hungover today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts