Mike_H Posted 10 April , 2011 Share Posted 10 April , 2011 On the Supplementaries - 7) P1907, pre 1916 with no clearing hole in pommel, hooked quillon removed, post 1913. 9) Mle 1892 2nd type with lengthened muzzle ring 10) P 1888, MkI 2nd type with 2 rivet grips. Grip material; 6) Brass 8) Wood (Usually walnut?) 9) A man-made composition material, moulded reinforced resin Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 10 April , 2011 Share Posted 10 April , 2011 Safe to say my knowledge of Great War bayonets is nowhere near good enough for me to compete in this event, but it really is very interesting. Keep it up guys, good stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 10 April , 2011 Share Posted 10 April , 2011 Shippingsteel - fantastic thread! I've been offline for the past 3-4 months due to a technical glitch on my home computer, but I was very impressed when I logged back in and saw this thread. Looks like I've missed the first few rounds, although having just picked up a Berthier bayonet I can tell you that the grips are bakelite (I think). To be honest its just nice to see your collection laid out like this. Im hoping that there will be a 'Lithgow' round at some point.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 11 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2011 On the Supplementaries - 7) P1907, pre 1916 with no clearing hole in pommel, hooked quillon removed, post 1913. 9) Mle 1892 2nd type with lengthened muzzle ring 10) P 1888, MkI 2nd type with 2 rivet grips. Grip material; 6) Brass 8) Wood (Usually walnut?) 9) A man-made composition material, moulded reinforced resin Excellent work Mike, you really know your stuff. All those answers are exactly what I was looking for. Some more specifics - with 7) I was also looking for the early 'polished finish' blade found on the pre-war bayonets. It is a HQR version of the early P1907. And with 8) the timber grips have a narrow grooving pattern which indicates a later manufacture, the earlier pre-war grips had a noticeably wider grooving pattern. The American M1905 bayonet is indeed a 1917 version made by Rock Island Arsenal and features the unusually dark 'parkerised finish' to the blade. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 11 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2011 We've now reached the midpoint of the competition and its time to update the scores. We currently have Garron out in front on 15.5 points and Mike_H close behind on 13.5 points. To combat Gaz's habit of getting in early and wiping the floor with us, I've taken the 'executive decision' to alter the handicapping system slightly.! (Please see post #8 for further details) Hopefully in the next 2 rounds we will see some fresh faces having a go. Please get involved - there is no shame in making a few mistakes. Better to have a go and join in the fun.! Best of Luck. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 11 April , 2011 Share Posted 11 April , 2011 This is one of the best laughs and most challenging threads I've been on for a long time, Thanks. Like I said the extra credit are out of my league but I know my bayonets...if you want to throw me, post Turkish bayonets as I don't have a clue with them I cant believe you altered the scoring system because of little old me, aww shucks I'm flattered. Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 11 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2011 Okay so here's the new photo for Round 3. As usual, give me the Nationality of each, the Pattern/Model number and the Rifle each bayonet would normally attach to. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 11 April , 2011 Share Posted 11 April , 2011 British, P1887, Martini Henry British 1907 pattern SMLE British P13, P14 Rifle German 98/05, G98 British P1903 SMLE Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_H Posted 11 April , 2011 Share Posted 11 April , 2011 Slower on the draw than Gaz! Must wake up! 11) British. P1887 MkI for Martini Henry Rifle 12) British. P1907, 1915/16 manufacture, darkened blade, no clearing hole. for SMLE 13) United States. P.17 bayonet for the M 1917 rifle. 14) Germany. S 98/05 a/A S abg, (old model, saw removed), for Gew98 & Kar98 rifles 15) Briish. P1903 for the SMLE Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 11 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2011 British, P1887, Martini Henry British 1907 pattern SMLE British P13, P14 Rifle German 98/05, G98 British P1903 SMLE Not you again Gaz.! At least I've slipped one or two under your guard this time, ha ha .... Answers marked as above, need more information on the particular Martini Henry rifle that fitted the P1887.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 11 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2011 11) British. P1887 MkI for Martini Henry Rifle 12) British. P1907, 1915/16 manufacture, darkened blade, no clearing hole. for SMLE 13) United States. P.17 bayonet for the M 1917 rifle. 14) Germany. S 98/05 a/A S abg, (old model, saw removed), for Gew98 & Kar98 rifles 15) Briish. P1903 for the SMLE Mike Mike now your doing it as well, answering all my supplementary questions before I've even asked for them to be answered ... aaagh back to the drawing board.! At least you were able to clean up a few that Gaz missed out on.! Better leave the few remaining questions for somebody else - Jonathan perhaps, are you out there.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 11 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2011 So I've just scratched together a few more supplementary questions - please bear with me. For 11) give me the variant of P1887, the version of the M-H rifle, and another important Rifle that this bayonet will fit. On 12) i am looking for the particular blade finish, and the location/maker where it was manufactured. For 13) please again tell me the specific blade finish, and the manufacturer of this bayonet. Thats all I've got for this round. Talk again tomorrow. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 11 April , 2011 Share Posted 11 April , 2011 11) Its the MkI,It was originally designed for the .402 calibre Enfield-Martini but the project was scrapped and the rifles were converted into mkIV long lever in 577-450. Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 11 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2011 11) Its the MkI, It was originally designed for the .402 calibre Enfield-Martini but the project was scrapped and the rifles were converted into mkIV long lever in 577-450. The P1887 is not the Mk.I version, this one has not got a clearance hole. However these bayonets did attach to the Martini Henry Mk.IV service rifle. Just the 1 point for Gaz. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_H Posted 12 April , 2011 Share Posted 12 April , 2011 S>S Have slept on it and possibly had some new thoughts!!! 12) Blued finish, manufactured at Lithgow, Austraia 13) Parkerised blade, manufactured by Remington. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 12 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 12 April , 2011 Have slept on it and possibly had some new thoughts!!! 12) Blued finish, manufactured at Lithgow, Australia 13) Parkerised blade, manufactured by Remington. Great stuff Mike, I was sweating on somebody picking up on the Lithgow, seemed so straightforward to me of course, being an Aussie an all that.! Looks like Mr Jscott missed his opportunity to pick up some easy points, however we are still looking for the Nationality of the Lithgow P1907, hmmm tough one .... We also need the blade finish of the Remington M1917, its not parkerised. Also the variant of the P1887, and another Rifle it was attached to during the GW period. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_H Posted 12 April , 2011 Share Posted 12 April , 2011 OK lets amend that, No.13) Sandblasted blade, cant think of another process to give that appearance. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 12 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 12 April , 2011 Yep thats correct Mike, the M1917 was made new with the sandblasted blade, this one does appear a little darker in the photo due to the fact its blade has been oiled down for storage. With the P1887 it is the Mk.IV variant, which was converted from the P1886 Mk.I trials bayonets for the Enfield-Martini rifle, in 1891. As Gaz indicated they were converted for the M-H Mk.IV. The Mk.IV is very similar to the Mk.I variant of the P1887, however the muzzle ring is slightly closer to the blade, it has no clearance hole, and the pommel and press catch are slightly different. Another rifle the P1887 was used on during the GW was the Martini-Metford Mk.II rifle (see pic below, note heavy barrel and bayonet lug on front band for attachment) especially in colonial Africa. The last of the Martini-Henry conversions involved the rebarreling and rechambering for the much faster and lighter .303 service round. The Martini-Enfield conversions only took the socket bayonet. This due to the M-E having the smaller diameter barrel, which didn't allow for the sword bayonet to be attached. Meanwhile the Martini-Metford Mk.II retained the original size heavy barrel which did. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 12 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 12 April , 2011 My apologies for not posting the photo for Round 4 at the regular time. The site hosting my photos was down for maintenance so that was preventing me from uploading the shot.! But anyway here it is now - we might get to see if there is anyone on the other side of the pond willing to have a crack at it, or if its going to remain being just the two-horse race.? With these I'm looking for the Nationality of each bayonet, the specific Pattern/Model number designation, and of course the Rifle to which it would normally be attached. Simple as.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_H Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 G'day Here we go, I feel a bit exposed against the skyline! Won't someone else join us? 16) Portugal. M1886 bayonet for the Kropatschek rifle 17) Britain. P1913 for the P1914 rifle. 18) Germany. S98/05 nA for the Gew 98 & Kar 98 19) Britain. Pattern 1888 MkII for the MLE Mk 1* rifle 20. Canada. Ross MkI (P1908) bayonet, for the Ross rifle. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 13 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Here we go, I feel a bit exposed against the skyline! Won't someone else join us? 16) Portugal. M1886 bayonet for the Kropatschek rifle 17) Britain. P1913 for the P1914 rifle. 18) Germany. S98/05 nA for the Gew 98 & Kar 98 19) Britain. Pattern 1888 MkII for the MLE Mk 1* rifle 20) Canada. Ross MkI (P1908) bayonet, for the Ross rifle. I know exactly how you feel Mike, and yes it is a little disappointing that no-one else is willing to step up, but hey I think its called the 'intimidation' factor.! Between yourself and Gaz you have got the others all bluffed, and its easy to see why with the "Perfect Score" you have just posted above - Well Done.! Standby for the last of the supplementary questions - after I go back and try to write out a few new ones, I may have to make these a little bit harder I think .... Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 13 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Okay lets wrap this up. For bayonet 16) I'm looking for the style of the blade, the Maker/location and the Rifle it was originally made to attach to. With 17) and 19) just give me the actual maker of each bayonet, and for 20) tell me another 2 countries that used the Ross bayonet during the war. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Lets see if I can regain some points with these. 16) Yataghan style, Based on the British P1856. (What I thought it was as that one stumped me) 17) Remington made 19)Enfield made 20) The US and the UK also used the Ross. Gaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 13 April , 2011 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Lets see if I can regain some points with these. 16) Yataghan style, Based on the British P1856. (What I thought it was as that one stumped me) 17) Remington made 19) Enfield made 20) The US and the UK also used the Ross. Got a few more right there Gaz, but I don't think its going to be enough, and we still need more details on 16) and the correct maker of 17).? The Kropatschek (below) was a Portuguese service rifle, but by the time of the GW had been mainly relegated to arming the troops in colonial Africa, where it did see some action. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 13 April , 2011 Share Posted 13 April , 2011 Didnt see what Rifle, it would fit the p1856 Short rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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