George Armstrong Custer Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 I was thinking of the children and Spielbergised it! Caring George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salesie Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 I had every confidence you'd get there in the end, me old mucker - you obviously weren't adding enough water again last night! I neither know nor care what Spielberg is in his private life. What's under discussion is what he puts on screen in the context of the Great War. Similarly, the requirement of the BBC's Charter to both entertain and educate is separate from a discussion of Reith's public and private faces. George I've pretty well (but not totally) kept out of this debate - not least because, to a degree, I agree with both sides of the argument i.e. films are entertainment not education, and, if a film becomes seriously seen as education then it needs challenging. But, all in all, the main reason I've kept out of it is because I don't really care either way - I've enough confidence in the intellect of the British public to know that within a few hours of leaving the cinema they'll have forgotten the "bad facts" anyway, just as they forget the "good-facts" shortly after being told what they are (and who can blame them, most of 'em probably have greater life-interests than what really happened in WW1). So, why did I jump back in? Because of this post by Steven, "It's shame we now live in a society where the two are mutually exclusive. I suppose Lord Reith must be joining George Barlow in his revolutions" I just wanted to point out that "bad historical facts" are not confined to movie-makers. And now I'm happy that my point has been made, I'll leave you to your discussions. Cheers-salesie. PS. By the way, the wording of the BBC charter is one thing - but how it is/was interpreted and put into practice (by humans like Reith et al) is highly relevant, otherwise the wording becomes meaningless when trying to assess it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIFFO Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 Now this whole thread should be closed A its starting to get silly B if you want any ones opinion theres enough been said.make up your own mind without this thread getting longer and longer and llllooooonnnnn. Its a film go or don`t Biff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Tucker Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 Why can anyone get worked up about Reith who left the BBC in 1938. The BBC might have deteroriated in some areas but it is still the best thing around in TV by a country mile. Unless of course some correspondents are hoping for Fox Newsification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 One great bit of false history in the film: the bells were to be rung in the evening that war was declared but then silenced until the war was over. There were no general restrictions on ringing in WWI (there were of course in WWII), Sunday service ringing continued as normal, though initially at least there was a marked decline in the number of peals and quarter peals rung. Some local restrictions were occasionally introduced, and there were worries that the sound of bells ringing might help enemy planes find population centres. Even in France English ringers were sometimes able to try out the bells in the local churches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 One great bit of false history in the film: the bells were to be rung in the evening that war was declared but then silenced until the war was over. There were no general restrictions on ringing in WWI (there were of course in WWII), Sunday service ringing continued as normal, though initially at least there was a marked decline in the number of peals and quarter peals rung. Some local restrictions were occasionally introduced, and there were worries that the sound of bells ringing might help enemy planes find population centres. Even in France English ringers were sometimes able to try out the bells in the local churches Interesting David. I always belived that bell ringing was restricted. Without a scrap of evidence, I may add. Now if I can ask a question before the thread is closed... Reports on the battle of Cambrai often mention that bells were rung. Were they rung at an odd time? How did people know that they were being rung in celebration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 The BBC might have deteroriated in some areas but it is still the best thing around in TV by a country mile. At least there's no argument there from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIFFO Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 BRUCE BRUCE,their talking about bellringing go on tell em bruce go on tell em,I`ve given up on warhorse lets talk about bell ringing.might as well be as daft as others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil andrade Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 Look at the CULTURE section of today's Sunday Times if you get the chance. It contains a very cogent article about the way the Great War is depicted in the media, with reference to War Horse and the soon to be screened Birdsong. Some of the things it says are almost as if they had been lifted from this very thread. I am encouraged by the general tone of the writing : the thrust is very much as GAC and others would approve of ; a repudiation of the Donkey wallopers. Phil (PJA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 There were no general restrictions on ringing in WWI (there were of course in WWII), Sunday service ringing continued as normal, though initially at least there was a marked decline in the number of peals and quarter peals rung. Some local restrictions were occasionally introduced, and there were worries that the sound of bells ringing might help enemy planes find population centres. Even in France English ringers were sometimes able to try out the bells in the local churches There were in places where a blackout was in force: A revision to the 'Defence of the Realm Act' was introduced in late March 1916 Click NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger H Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 Some of the things it says are almost as if they had been lifted from this very thread. Phil (PJA) They probably were Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraint Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 Saw it last night. Looked at my watch thrice. Otherwise it did the business and was a night out. I'll not be buying the DVD until it's 4 for a £5er at Tesco. 2 stars out of 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 the word b&ll&cks came to mind..........inaccurate schmalz, ... I have just come back from seeing it. Possibly the worst film I have seen in ages and I concur with Steve....I so wanted to enjoy it. Very disappointing on just about every level. Woeful. My Yeoman grandfather will be turning in his grave. MG P.S. When did the Dorset regiment get a bagpiper?............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 The documentaries don't get much better - I've just watched 'War Horse: the True Story' where Richard van Emden says: "The Germans invented something called a 'caltrop'". Aye, that'll be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 There were in places where a blackout was in force: A revision to the 'Defence of the Realm Act' was introduced in late March 1916 Click NigelS Which is basically what I meant by local restrictions. Nice to see the precise reference though. This only applied after dark though, so while it had an impact on practice ringing, and in the winter potentially on ringing for (Sunday) evening services, ringing for the main Sunday service was unaffected. I have looked (so far) at every issue of the Ringing World from August 1914 - August 1916. There was one week in late 1914 or early 1914 where no peal reports had been sent in, but otherwise it's perfectly clear that ringing carried on largely as normal - though interestingly the war meant that ringing, like industry, saw an influx of women (though in ringing this had begun happening pre-war). Ringers carried on having meetings bringing together those from several local towers - often including ringers from elsewhere serving in the forces who had been posted to the area. There's a long tradition of ringing for victories. Obviously, I haven't got as far as Cambrai yet, but there was ringing after Jutland. Reports of special ringing will simply carried a footnote saying what it was for I don't recall anything about bells in the play - I'd be interested to know if there's anything in the book or if it was added by the authors of the screenplay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithfazzani Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 I suppose they could have been invented by a German, one who lived in ancient Rome that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 Been to the flicks today and watched War Horse and loved. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 15 January , 2012 Share Posted 15 January , 2012 A film that satisfied our demands for accuracy would be very hard to make, and even more difficult to sell, assuming, of course, that financial backing could be obtained in the first place. It would be fantastic if it could be accomplished. Any ideas for a theme ? The French managed with A Very Long Engagement. It was a love story set in World War I, rather than a World War I movie. You could do it with almost any theme. The bright-red "Albatros" was ridiculous, but it really didn't detract from the story at all. The Zeebrugge raid is a perfect subject for an epic war movie. If you want to go fantasy, I found an article from Boys Life, March 1931, which claims that the British planned a raid on a German air field with a single large bomber converted to a troop carrier. The men would be armed with portable flamethrowers. Approaching at night, from as great an altitude as possible, the plane would cut its engine and drop silently down into the main field. Swiftness, silence, and unexpectedness would be counted on to get it past the searchlights and Archies. Reaching the field, with all further chance of escaping detection gone, the plane would be stopped and men with flame-throwers justled[sic] out onto the ground. Then the big plane would taxi along a hundred yards or so as quickly as possible, and dump out another set of flame-throwers. Another dash, and the last of the men and flame-throwers would be disembarked. Then the pilot--if he and the plane were both still able to fly--would take off for an open pasture at the edge of woods about three miles away. The men with the flame-throwers would try to escape in the darkness, through the confusion that would follow their efforts at setting the whole place afire, and make their way to the agreed field. No idea if this was actually contemplated, but it would make a heck of a film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 16 January , 2012 Share Posted 16 January , 2012 Seen War Horse last night and enjoyed it very much. Cheers. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 16 January , 2012 Share Posted 16 January , 2012 Charles Moore's take from today's Tottygraph Oddly, I suspect this is what most viewers of the movie might feel, deep down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 16 January , 2012 Share Posted 16 January , 2012 P.S. When did the Dorset regiment get a bagpiper?............. I can help you there. My old mum came from Iwerne Minster, just outside Blandford Forum. I remember, as a lad (me, that is, not her) hearing stories of the expatriate community of hairy-a*sed Jocks, living in Piddle Trenthide. To a man they all enlisted in the Piddle Trenthide Highlanders, who were subsumed into the 32nd Battalion (The Piddle Valley Chums) of the Dorsets. I'm please Spielberg got that bit right. Not much is known about them these days as their War Diaries and enlistment registers were all destroyed in a mysterious bonfire at Father McDougall's farm at Iwerne in about 1925. Apparently the tax man was asking questions about allocation of sporrans. It's a long time ago now ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 16 January , 2012 Share Posted 16 January , 2012 Charles Moore's take from today's Tottygraph Oddly, I suspect this is what most viewers of the movie might feel, deep down. A 'Tottygraph' critic who knows what a coulter is. Respect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exuser1 Posted 16 January , 2012 Share Posted 16 January , 2012 My point with Speilberg is when will he give up trying to do John Ford ? Fords quote was " I make Westerns " Speilbergs quote should be "i keep on trying to copy John Ford " Have yet to see the movie ,but will when it hits Dunkirk in the week ,but it now seems to be part Horse Soldiers ,part Quite Man whith his take on a pre war Devon , i dont have a problem with Ford The Searchers is one of my great movies and i love the US cavalry triolgy Yellow Ribbon being in my opnion the best ,yes it can be in part over sentemental in a skip load but some excellent moments ,and yes the kit is not allways spot on ,and sabers were not carried in action during the period when the films are set but still great films ,its almost got to the point with Speilberg that he needs someone wispering over his shoulder "you are not John Ford " when on set . The Pacific and Band of Brothers were very good but Speilberg was producer not director ,perhaps that should be it ? On the education front ,to use this as a tool to educate schools as representing the war would be wrong ,but as a hook to get youngesters intrested is diffrent ,there seems a lot more intrest here in France in military history, my local supermarket has many magazines on all aspects of history its all most pick your period and its there ,and its a young age group purchaseing them and they are not cheap ,prices range from 7 euro to 16 euro ! there is also a huge intrest in historical comic books from all periods up to a Luftwaffe pilot in WW2 ! the history may not be 100 % but it creates a awareness and intrest , at school back in the1960s east end of London we had teachers who could quote facts ,dates all day long but the one who got me hooked was the one who brought the thing alive and showed us where history was alive around us ,got me doing research ,exploring my own area ,and 40 years on ,qualifications in archeology ,a libary threatining to eat house and home ,medal collection ,diarys photograph albums ,ect and now consumeing most of my time it worked ? will any one do a film today that will representes the Great war in a true light ? the books and storys are still there to be filmed Storm of Steel , Harris Covenant with Death ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 16 January , 2012 Share Posted 16 January , 2012 ne of the reviews I posted on Friday (either The Grauniad or the Grey 'un) suggested a film of The Middle Parts of Fortune would be a worthwhile project, and I have to agree. Little action in the span of the book, but a better "war story" has probably never been written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithfazzani Posted 16 January , 2012 Share Posted 16 January , 2012 Indeed Steven there are few better books about war. I would add The Spanish Farm trilogy as another possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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