daggers Posted 19 September , 2011 Share Posted 19 September , 2011 To oblige Grumpy's 'can you list real errors for me?' Were those Royal Artillery grenade badges on the lapels of the Hon. Colonel's mess dress, or was I dreaming by then? They may not have been visible in each take. He referred to his dinner hosts as 'the Volunteers', so was out of date as well as misunderstanding his own role as their Colonel. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_armstrong Posted 19 September , 2011 Share Posted 19 September , 2011 Yes I thought that odd as well - there seemed to be fighting still going on outside only a few feet away, but the officer just popped into his dugout and started getting ready to go on leave. I may have got this wrong, but when the stretcher bearer was shot, the top of his head seemed to be a good couple of feet below the top of the trench. To make that shot a German would surely have had to be either in the trench or standing right above it. However, none of his mates appeared to be particularly concerned for their own safety, took cover, returned fire, or anything like that. I'm sure there was a fair bit of saying "regiment" when they really meant "battalion" too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 19 September , 2011 Share Posted 19 September , 2011 My tenuous link with this programme and thread, never having watched it, is......when I set the DVD I set it to finish 5 minutes early! I will probably be out of hiding sometime in the spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 20 September , 2011 Share Posted 20 September , 2011 Although I can't give direct quotes, I seem to recall in my reading instances of officers being extracted from some very dicky spots by the timely arrival of a leave pass - of course the pass may well have extracted them from the front line immediately before an attack rather than during an ongoing fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhifle Posted 20 September , 2011 Share Posted 20 September , 2011 Hi, Interesting article on the White Feather in the Daily Telegraph Regards Mark Daily Telegraph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilH Posted 20 September , 2011 Share Posted 20 September , 2011 My tenuous link with this programme and thread, never having watched it, is......when I set the DVD I set it to finish 5 minutes early! I will probably be out of hiding sometime in the spring. If it'll help you out of the doghouse I still have it one the recorder so could easily run you off a DVD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 20 September , 2011 Share Posted 20 September , 2011 Although I can't give direct quotes, I seem to recall in my reading instances of officers being extracted from some very dicky spots by the timely arrival of a leave pass - of course the pass may well have extracted them from the front line immediately before an attack rather than during an ongoing fight. and who could blame them? this is a genuine hero: " ...............As a regular officer he was eligible for the prestigious appointment of Adjutant and held this post according to the Army List from 1st April 1918 to 31st July, but in fact from about 5th January. He was again Mentioned on 3rd June and was sent to UK on six months exchange 11th August and ‘waited not on the order of his going’. He went as an Instructor to a Corps School Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 20 September , 2011 Share Posted 20 September , 2011 For anyone who would like to watch it again here's a link. Would have had to wait until January for PBS to put it on. Downton Se.2 Ep.1 My only real gripes came from the intro scene with Matthew's rather abrupt removal during repulsed attack and the Tommy who is killed at the parapet. While it would have been really fun to see Matthew attempt to contact his Brigade commander and report their position and progress instead of unravel leave papers, its only TV. However the bit when the one lad takes a fag break and proceeding to share his views on wartime fate while his mates are organizing their defenses seems a bit contrived. Particularly when he was killed mid sentence. Having said those things, I find the program entertaining and I commend our forum pals for having participated and given their expertise. I myself wish I had been one of those extra Tommies!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 20 September , 2011 Share Posted 20 September , 2011 If it'll help you out of the doghouse I still have it one the recorder so could easily run you off a DVD. Thank you very much for the offer Phil but I am safe now, possibly not forgiven but allowed in the same room and my place in the pecking order, after the cats, is restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk VII Posted 20 September , 2011 Share Posted 20 September , 2011 Lord G. does appear to have Artillery (or Engineers) 'flaming bomb' on his mess dress collars - unless it's a fusilier one. It could be depicted as his leftovers from the South African War and not having got his stuff updated yet (but if Artillery or Engineers would he have red mess dress?). Expecting to get a battalion for France seems a bit naive of him - he might well have had a handing in training one in 1914 or 15 but many of those 'dugout' CO.s were replaced before going overseas. In any event he states that he has been given nothing to do for the past two years so it seems like unrealistic expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 21 September , 2011 Share Posted 21 September , 2011 Expecting to get a battalion for France seems a bit naive of him I seem to recall that he quotes the experience of Churchill as regards getting a battalion. Of course, as an aristocrat, he is used to getting what he wants! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 21 September , 2011 Share Posted 21 September , 2011 I wonder if motoring and railway enthusiasts are getting as involved in detail on their forums. And wait until we see some nursing when, presumably, the Abbey gets taken over: "That would have never been allowed a hundred years ago" or "that sort of stethoscope wasn't introduced until 1919". Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 21 September , 2011 Share Posted 21 September , 2011 Well I know from a couple of volunteers there that the station scenes were shot on the Bluebell Railway. As to the Earl's collar insignia, the first series seemed to imply he had been Grenadier Guards so far as I recall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk VII Posted 21 September , 2011 Share Posted 21 September , 2011 That would allow Lord G. to get away with wearing a 'wind-up' tunic, as someone in the Radio Times has noticed, though there's less excuse for the junior officer having one so early on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 22 September , 2011 Share Posted 22 September , 2011 That would allow Lord G. to get away with wearing a 'wind-up' tunic, as someone in the Radio Times has noticed, though there's less excuse for the junior officer having one so early on. I take it that the 'wind up' tunic is a dinner jacket? Matthew should have been in his SD uniform then. On what grounds is an officer issued one (wind up)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 22 September , 2011 Share Posted 22 September , 2011 Matthew is after all the Heir Presumptive to an Earldom so certain standards are expected of him. One could imagine the Earl offering to sort out all his uniforms for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 22 September , 2011 Share Posted 22 September , 2011 I take it that the 'wind up' tunic is a dinner jacket? Matthew should have been in his SD uniform then. On what grounds is an officer issued one (wind up)? 'Wind-up' usually refers to officer's Service Dress (not mess dress) uniforms that have had their cuff rank insignia removed, so that they can be moved to the shoulder straps (thereby becoming less conspicuous). Guards officers always had their rank insignia on shoulder straps as a dress distinction, but in other regiments the adoption of this was not until later in the war (and then was not adopted by all). For purists, true wind-up (as in 'got the wind-up') jackets would have evidence of this alteration. As officers would still be conspicuous to the enemy with their open collars, the most logical move was to adopt OR style closed collar jackets with rank stars on the shoulder straps. The famous King Street picture of the LFs at the Somme shows one such junior officer. What we should remember here is that, RAMC excepted, the regiments seen so far are fictitious - so our concerns over the use of regimental distinctions doesn't hold here. Seems odd that they have used this device, to my mind - but I guess it meant that the writers did not have to tie in the movement of the characters to actual battalions, etc (i.e. less research). Also means that the cap badges look odd to me... Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 22 September , 2011 Share Posted 22 September , 2011 Officers "Wind Up" and SD jackets. For the battle of Loos September 1915, 141 Brigade orders stated that "Officers will be dressed as the men". So Officers, junior Officers, wearing SD jackets was not unusual in 1916. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 22 September , 2011 Share Posted 22 September , 2011 Also means that the cap badges look odd to me... Cheers Peter IIRC, Shire Publications (or someone similar) brought out a very useful guide book to GW British cap badges, not too long ago. Maybe you can track one down Actually, I'm still trying to decide whether to watch the next episode: I found it a curious mixture of dull and overwrought, oddly enough, and the war bits were too few and far between to keep me awake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 22 September , 2011 Share Posted 22 September , 2011 Dull and overwrought is a very good way of describing my reaction ........ frantic cutting, and an amazing number of ads. AND NO SEX. [don't tell me I missed it making a cuppa!] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 22 September , 2011 Share Posted 22 September , 2011 Are we in danger of confusing wind-up jackets with bum-freezers? More to the point, officers then had their uniforms made privately to regimental patterns, not issued, I believe. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 22 September , 2011 Share Posted 22 September , 2011 AND NO SEX. [don't tell me I missed it making a cuppa!] Don't know about you, old chap, but I know which I'm more comfortable with these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 22 September , 2011 Share Posted 22 September , 2011 Don't know about you, old chap, but I know which I'm more comfortable with these days never was fond of a cuppa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 22 September , 2011 Share Posted 22 September , 2011 Two sugars please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex falbo Posted 22 September , 2011 Share Posted 22 September , 2011 'Wind-up' usually refers to officer's Service Dress (not mess dress) uniforms that have had their cuff rank insignia removed, so that they can be moved to the shoulder straps (thereby becoming less conspicuous). Guards officers always had their rank insignia on shoulder straps as a dress distinction, but in other regiments the adoption of this was not until later in the war (and then was not adopted by all). For purists, true wind-up (as in 'got the wind-up') jackets would have evidence of this alteration. As officers would still be conspicuous to the enemy with their open collars, the most logical move was to adopt OR style closed collar jackets with rank stars on the shoulder straps. The famous King Street picture of the LFs at the Somme shows one such junior officer. What we should remember here is that, RAMC excepted, the regiments seen so far are fictitious - so our concerns over the use of regimental distinctions doesn't hold here. Seems odd that they have used this device, to my mind - but I guess it meant that the writers did not have to tie in the movement of the characters to actual battalions, etc (i.e. less research). Also means that the cap badges look odd to me... Cheers Peter Thank you Peter. I had not come across this term before. I was aware that officers uniforms were privately tailored and purchased but the phrasing of Mk. VII's comment led me to believe he was talking about the red evening dinner jackets as a 'wind up.' So My earlier question was based on whether officers were allowed or issued orders to purchase a dinner jacket at some point in their career rather than on commission. Sorry about the confusion. There was thread which produced a fantastic photo of an MGC officer in a trench wearing a OR SD jacket. Trying to locate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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