Fat men in the Great War

[27thBN]

Well if you had been reading the papers over the years of the war .And had the idea conscription was coming, stuffing yourself big time get get out of active service seems a good way to not go .

MC

[Moonraker]

I've got many postcards showing Kitchener and prewar Territorial soldiers on Salisbury Plain and most look slim, in some cases scrawny. In contrast, cards showing the First Canadian Contingent on the Plain in 1914-15 show a higher proportion of well-built fellows - something remarked on by the press. (As it happens, many of the First Contingent had emigrated from Britain.)

In those days, people cycled and walked to work, didn't have cars, had no TV to slump in front of, and walked up stairs. (I'm inclined to sniff at people who wait for a lift to take them up or down one floor, or opt for the crowded escalator rather than a flight of 25 steps.)

Moonraker

[regimentalrogue]

I've got many postcards showing Kitchener and prewar Territorial soldiers on Salisbury Plain and most look slim, in some cases scrawny. In contrast, cards showing the First Canadian Contingent on the Plain in 1914-15 show a higher proportion of well-built fellows - something remarked on by the press. (As it happens, many of the First Contingent had emigrated from Britain.)

There's a logical fallacy implied there. Nothing suggests that a significant portion of the "well-built fellows" were necessarily from the British "emigrant" population of Canada.

[Moonraker]

Mm. I've a feeling that "logical fallacy" is oxymoronic (and that "illogical fallacy" would be tautological), but I take the Rogue's point. The British press at the time enthused about the qualities of the "Colonials" and now and then blamed many shortcomings on the British emigrants among them. But I concede that it's nigh-on impossible to estimate what proportions of the "well-built fellows" originated in Britain, Canada or elsewhere.

Moonraker

[David B]

Even in the 30's and 40's you did not see many fat people. Put it down to the lack of fast food, with people snacking, in those days it was three meals a day (if you

could afford it). The main means of getting from A to B was by Shanks pony (Walking) or catching the train/bus/tram and then walking.

One goes into a shopping mall these days and the place has about 25 percent of its space devoted to all the things we shouldn't eat but are nice. I walked to school

about a mile until I was allowed a bicycle at age 11 - still a good exercise.

David

[jhill]

To illustrate the difference between then and now here is an advert from a local newspaper of July 1916. It is for "Sargol", a diet supplement guaranteed to put on weight. " ... gains of from ten to twenty-five pounds in a single month are by no means infrequent."

Adverts like this appeared all the time. Only occasionally does one see an ad for something to make fat people thin.

[Mark Hone]

I seem to recall that in the documentary film 'The Battle of the Ancre and the Advance of the Tanks' , one of the artillerymen who is relaying orders from an officer to the gunpits is distinctly on the chubby side.

[clarke]

I believe lifestyle plays its part here.

Look at photos taken in your country's major cities during the years of 1914-1918 and then watch your local news and see the difference in the footage showing the average local. I'm sure that obesse people were around during the Great War but then it was not the norm, now it's quickly becoming, or has became the norm.

[Nigel Marshall]

I seem to recall that in the documentary film 'The Battle of the Ancre and the Advance of the Tanks' , one of the artillerymen who is relaying orders from an officer to the gunpits is distinctly on the chubby side.

In the Malins film of 'The Battle of the Somme' there is also an Artillery Sergeant (or staff sergeant) who purports to be counting munitions as they are transferred from dump to limber. He is noticably sturdier than the men he supervises.

It would appear that even back then, rank had its priviliges.

With regard to jhill's newspaper advert, what would the health implications of such sudden weight gain be?

I should imagine that structures and joints such as hips, knees ankles and feet would struggle to adapt so quickly to the extra load they had to carry and this could lead to incapacity. Was there any official line on the use of these supplements?

Cheers,

Nigel

[high wood]

Where have all the fat chap's gone?

gone for soldiers, everyone.

With apologies to Pete Seeger.

I have a photograph of this chap, not exactly fat but certainly carrying a little extra baggage.

[nf3996]

There's a rather 'chunky' soldier sitting in the centre of the front row in the group photo I've attached. It shows a group of Royal Army Ordnance Corps soldiers in late 1918 or 1919 (my grandfather, Thomas George Alexander, is on the left in the back row), but I don't know the location.

Alan

[Herekawe]

Hi

Many people were pretty malnorished before WW1. My mother - who was a dietician, often said wartime rationing in both wars was good for the UK population, especially the children as for many poorer people it was the first time they had eaten a balanced diet including meat and milk products and consequently people were healthier and children grew better especially after WW2 as rationing continued for several years.

There certainly seems to be a difference in height in many pictures of WW1 between officers and men.

I am not sure whether this is factually true or she just picked it up during her career.

James

[janecavell]

Concerns about obesity are nothing new. In 1727 Thomas Smart wrote

I believe no age did ever afford more instances of corpulency than our own.

This is from his A Discourse Concerning the Causes and Effects of Corpulency, which is referred to in an interesting article on the history of obesity (3.5 MB PDF download).

[healdav]

I have a now retired doctor friend. He said that he was sick of people coming into his surgery with complaint various all caused by obesity which they said they couldn't control as ,'it's my genes'.

He said he always wanted to point out that there is no record of anyone failing to lose weight in a concentration camp because of their genes (and that was a big sample).

[IPT]

Second Lieutenant Alan Dundas Stewart. Unit: 9th Battalion, Royal Sussex Regiment, Assistant Bomb Instructor, 24th Division. Death: 19 September 1915 Died at the Front whilst giving instruction in handling bombs, after a bomb exploded in his hand. A fruit grower on the 1911 census.

 

[The Prussian]

Hello!

Two german Landsturm men:

 

[Madmeg]

2 hours ago, The Prussian said:

Hello!

Two german Landsturm men:

 

That looks like a propaganda photo- "join the army, eat and drink well, get fatter than all your non army friends back home" type of thing :-D.

[The Prussian]

1 minute ago, Madmeg said:

That looks like a propaganda photo- "join the army, eat and drink well, get fatter than all your non army friends back home" type of thing :-D.

Yes. The text means: a lot of enemies, a lot of honour. Drink it off, mate.

It's also a message to the civilians, that the british blockade ain't too hard for the people

[Madmeg]

meantime the British press were publishing pictures of the weediest scrawniest German POWs and titling them with sarcastic comments about their quality and stature

[phil andrade]

Those  who live on a plane of hardship - and I’m thinking of subsistence farming here - tend to admire fat people.  My dad weighed twenty stone, and when we served Chinese customers from our market pitch, they always tapped his tummy and smiled when they concluded a deal....they thought fatness conferred status and, by patting his belly, they hoped to enjoy good luck.

 

The experience of famine encourages honour of the feast.

 

I wonder how many of the folks who fought in the Great War had enough awareness of going short on grub as to be rather envious of fat people, as opposed to ridiculing them.

 

They were a scarce commodity then : how things change !

 

Phil

[seaJane]

Not 100% GW but this thread made me think of these two photos of Herbert Richard Barnes Hull, Surgeon (1911) and Surgeon Commander (1927) RN respectively.

 

[Khaki]

Fried food, meats cooked in lard, bread & butter, meat pies,potato, all washed down with beer (If it was affordable), I am not an expert but I believe that was a diet very well known to the working man. If you look at photo's of  the period heavyweight boxers, one would think they were just corpulent, but on the contrary they were hard powerful men capable of a fighting endurance unknown today and probably a diet forbidden to modern athletes. I believe that there was a public expectation of politicians and the rich and powerful to be men of substantial girth. I have photo's of those gents public speaking platform campaigning, with bowler hat, generous beard and mustache, thumbs hooked into a vest avec gold chain and stomach thrust forward At least back then there was no rude criticism of those that were overweight (by our standards). I do have a wonderful photo of a corporal of substantial size complete with enormous mustache well turned out. complete with swagger stick. probably too old for overseas service but doing his best as a drill instructor.

khaki

 

[Pat Atkins]

I'm sure I read somewhere about men at some stage in the war getting fat in the trenches, as they were (relatively) well-fed and (relatively) sedentary. Can't really believe e.g. RE fatigues were easy work, but that's what I recall, anyway. Damned if I can find a reference though.

 

Slightly off-topic, 1920s copies of their magazine The Wire record weight gained by Royal Corps of Signals recruits in training, suggesting a pretty thin starting point for many!

[Khaki]

18 minutes ago, Pat Atkins said:

I'm sure I read somewhere about men at some stage in the war getting fat in the trenches, as they were (relatively) well-fed and (relatively) sedentary. Can't really believe e.g. RE fatigues were easy work, but that's what I recall, anyway. Damned if I can find a reference though.

 

 

I agree can't imagine that being true. but I can imagine it being  said by some "brass hat" following a quick tour of inspection in  a trench. Saying things after seeing troops sitting or sleeping (  following a night raid) usually, " I say Colonel, we can't have these men loafing about like that, bad for morale, they will be getting fat. better find something for them to do''

[Pat Atkins]

Seems plausible! I wonder now if it wasn't a letter home, actually: "Hope this finds you as it leaves me, in the pink", etc., to reassure family at home? Equally unreliable as fact, of course.