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Remembered Today:

Fat men in the Great War


Tinhat47

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This has always seemed a bit odd to me. I've never seen a picture of a fat or even remotely chunky soldier dating from World War I. I realize that most people were smaller back then, but surely some of the more comfortable clerks and accountants who joined Kitchener's army must have been some well-fed fellows. Of course, I don't expect to see any in battlefield pictures where rations were scarce and work was strenous, but in portrait photos from before deployment you'd think there would be at least a few ... unless the training regimen in the camp was strict enough to slim them down rapidly. I've heard of the height and breast size requirements for the British Army during the war ... was there a weight limit too?

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The vast majority of recruits were ordinary workers. Obesity is a modern phenomenon as far as workers are concerned. Regular soldiers were well fed but well exercised and the New Army men would have undergone a lot of marching and drill on army rations. The only O.R. liable to be overweight would be old soldiers tucked away in the QM stores or the kitchens where pictures would be few and far between. There are several mentions of older officers who were overweight. The death of the senior officer who died on his way to Mons ( Murray?) was credited to his being overweight and unfit. If I recall correctly , I am away from my books at the moment, S-D got his job.

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What an interesting thread!

Perhaps it suggests how chronically overweight we are now....that we should find it remarkable that, only a lifetime ago, there were so few people who resemble us in our tendency to corpulence!

Relatively sparse nourishment and a far higher amount of excercise - even for clerks - must be the reason.

Not that I disdain the question - you are right : the fellows just seem so meagre in stature and bulk.

GAC is right - the German soldiers in many photos look bigger and more mature than their British couterparts. They were definitely older, weren't they? The German army set great store by its black bread, apparently, and - despite blockade - the soldiers looked robust and fit.

Phil.

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The death of the senior officer who died on his way to Mons ( Murray?) was credited to his being overweight and unfit. If I recall correctly , I am away from my books at the moment, S-D got his job.

Tom - Wasn't it Sir James Grierson whom SD replaced.

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haha Big Nims is awesome!

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One of the curious facts about the Gallipoli campaign is how weight influenced the choice of a General at Suvla

Kitchener refused to release any General then serving on the Western Front

In stead he offered Hamilton a choice from three

Mahon, Sir John Ewart and Stopford

Ewart was turned down because Hamilton knew him to be stout of girth

'I greatly admire his character but he positively could not have made his way along the fire trenches I inspected yesterday'

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Aint you read 'The Good Soldier Schweik' by Haroslav? (apologies for spelling- my copy's missing, and last read about five years ago.) Schweik was an 'everyman' Austrian recruit with his massively fat friend (Bartav??). The ultimate WW1 obese soldier!

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Hi Matt.

Most of them were probably Generals all that rich food and wine behind the lines in their! billets.

Regards Andy

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I suspect that anyone volunteering who was deemed too corpulent to be quickly slimmed down during basic training would be rejected as unfit, so in 14, 15 and 16 there wouldn't be that many overweight soldiers (seen some photos of enormous RN cooks though!). The problem would come with conscription. Being able to get out of service because one was a fat cat might not go down too well with those who were conscripted (nor with their families). However given diet and lifestyle at the time I suspect corpulence came upon people later in life than today.

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Here is a post by VicMill on the very subject -24 stones and 4 pounds must be hard to beat!

Hi

I came across the following story while searching the Kent Messenger archives from September 1916. (You'll notice there's a difference in his name from the heading to the text.)

"THE HEAVIEST SOLDIER - BOMBADIER ALFRED BALL

Among the occupants of the Howard de Walden VAD Hospital, Marsham Street, Maidstone is Bombadier Albert Ball who is believed to be the heaviest man in the British Army. He is 29 years of age and married and his exact weight is 24 stone 4lbs. He arrived at the hospital from Sheerness a few weeks ago to undergo an operation which has been successfully performed by Dr Travers. In spite of his size the Bombadier, who is familiarly known as 'Tiny' is very active and looks well in khaki. He begun to put on flesh, he says, about eight years ago, after his recovery from an attack of typhoid. Previously he was of medium weight. When he enlisted in November 1914 he was told by an offical at Whitehall that he was 'probably the heaviest man among the rank and file of the Army' and since that time he has increased rather than decreased in weight. He is enthusiastic in his praise of the treatment he received at the Howard de Walden Hospital 'the Matron and nurses are kindness itself' he remarked, 'and I am sure that every wounded Tommy who is fortunate enough to be sent there, is very loath to leave'."

Would be interesting to know if he survived the war, but there's not too much information about him for a beginner like me to work on.

VicMill

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That's great about Al Ball. My brother-in-law to-be is right around that same weight and they call him "Tiny" too.

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Whilst certainly not true of all generals - or even most of them - Currie was both tall and notably pear shaped! That did not stop him being a good general. Grierson was a notorious bon viveur - but also very talented. Joffre was extremely fond of his food (amongst other things) - but I am sure deserves his reputation, amongst some at least, as saviour of France. Hindenburg does not seem to have lacked the odd strudel in his diet either!

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Plumer was noted for being rotund.

AJP Taylor, in his illustrated history, made a pointed jibe when he captioned one of his photographs of Joffre & Co as "generals suffering from under nourishment" ( not excact - this is from memory).

Ludendorff looks a bit bloated, too!

Phil.

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Siegfried Sassoon hints at the idea of overweight officers...

Base Details

IF I were fierce, and bald, and short of breath

I'd live with scarlet Majors at the Base,

And speed glum heroes up the line to death.

You'd see me with my puffy petulant face,

Guzzling and gulping in the best hotel,

Reading the Roll of Honour. `Poor young chap,'

I'd say -- `I used to know his father well;

Yes, we've lost heavily in this last scrap.'

And when the war is done and youth stone dead,

I'd toddle safely home and die -- in bed.

Eighty years later, and Sting has the same idea:

Corpulent generals safe behind lines

History's lessons drowned in red wine...

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Whilst certainly not true of all generals - or even most of them - Currie was both tall and notably pear shaped! That did not stop him being a good general. ... snip, ...

Neither General Currie nor his Chief Engineer, Major-General W.B. Lindsay had any trouble casting a shadow, despite both being extremely effective in their jobs. There are cartoons supposedly penned by onlookers exaggerating the comic effect they made when on inspection tours together, but I cannot find a copy close at hand.

There is one caution I might make about the alleged stoutness of Germans. This was a racial stereotype common in those days as illustrated is this effort from Canada in Khaki . On the other hand, Intelligence reports from captured prisoners, especially later in the War, seem to find them scrawny and undernourished. This is also my opinion from viewing period newsreels.

post-75-1231206139.jpg

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One of the curious facts about the Gallipoli campaign is how weight influenced the choice of a General at Suvla

Kitchener refused to release any General then serving on the Western Front

In stead he offered Hamilton a choice from three

Mahon, Sir John Ewart and Stopford

Ewart was turned down because Hamilton knew him to be stout of girth

'I greatly admire his character but he positively could not have made his way along the fire trenches I inspected yesterday'

What a peculiar criterion, given the usual distance between senior generals and fire trenches which Stopford did nothing to alter.

cheers Martin B

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I read somewhere with regard to Grierson the comment:

"His finest battles were fought with a knife and fork".

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  • 2 weeks later...

Many senior officers in WWI had years of service in India or Africa, dining increasingly well waited upon by servants.

Wasn't there recently a reality show that examined the diet of the upper classes in Edwardian England and calculated it at over 5000 calaries?

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Extract from local paper January 1918.

There are few Families in the District who can boast such a proud record of patriotism as that of Mr. & Mrs Frank Webster, who have four Sons in the Army, in addition to several Brothers and Nephews. The first Son to join the service was William Temple Webster, who enlisted at the age of seventeen years in the Royal Navy twelve months before the outbreak of war. He was a member of the crew of H.M.S. Implacable which escorted the Royal Fusiliers to X Beach on the memorable occasion of the first landing at the Dardenelles. Frank and Cuthbert Webster, enlisted in September 1914, the former in the Lincolns, the latter in the Leicestershires, Frank (see P. 41) who is twenty six years of age was taken prisoner in July last, two months previously he was awarded the Military Medal for bringing in wounded under heavy shell fire.

Cuthbert is a Lance Corporal, is twenty nine years of age and has been in France nearly two years, he was a Sergeant Instructor in the Church Lads Brigade in which all his Brothers had served, the eldest Lance Webster joined up last Spring and is with a training Battalion in India.

The Family record does not end with Sons, the Fathers Brothers Fred and Jack, are serving, the latter in France while the former who is of Herculean build and turned the scales at twenty six stones is employed at the Regimental Depot at Derby.

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Relatively sparse nourishment and a far higher amount of excercise - even for clerks - must be the reason.

I disagree that nourishment was scarce; it was available in increasing quantities and also ‘junk’ food was also available. Cadbury’s Dairy Milk had appeared in 1905, joining other chocolate bars on the market. Many of the traditional dishes of the time were also highly calorific. You’re right far more exercise was taken in all occupations at that time. Also our diet has increased the amount of junk calories.

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I read somewhere with regard to Grierson the comment:

"His finest battles were fought with a knife and fork".

I think he actually said it himself!

There is a difference between men, especially officers, getting fatter because of their age and reduced exposure to strenuous physical activity - as most of us probably find today - and simply being fatter than is desirable for the job. But on the subject of nourishment, it was not sparse but it was fairly carefully balanced (as regards the official rations) to provide optimal conversion of food to energy. A similar policy applied during food rationing in WW2 and about ten years afterwards, where there seems to have been much less obesity than there is today.

It may be relevant that when the Pattern 14 Infantry equipment was introduced in Aug 1914, waist belts were of two sizes: Small (42 inches) and Large (48 inches). These figures of course included the part of the belt passed through the buckle. By April 1915 it had become necessary to introduce an Extra Large size of 52 inches.

Sergeant-cooks were also fairly notorious for not being slim. Of course, they had to taste all the food they cooked!

Ron

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  • 1 year later...

I have to agree with the opening comments, although there probably were overweight soldiers, they do not seem to appear in photographs but then surviving uniforms also seem to always be in the smaller sizes. If you take it a step further and examine the old movie footage showing the crowds at the commencement of the war at British recruiting drives you will notice that overweight persons are not evident.

khaki

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