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Remembered Today:

Imperial Camel Corps 1917-18


gnr.ktrha

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Hi Steve,

I am looking for information on my British Great Grand Father Charles Hurren No 51444 and would be grateful if you have any information that you could share.   
 

Our family were aware that he served in the ICC – we assume 2nd Battalion and a photo of this experience has survived.  However any other information about his service in WW1 is fairly light. His Medal card record indicates he served in the following units  - City of London Yeomanry – we assume 1/1st - followed by Imperial Camel Corps and Staffordshire Yeomanry. 
 

I note in one of your previous posts (some time ago) you suggest he might have been in the 9th Company in the ICC?   
"Hurren    Charles    51444    Pte    Tos possibly 9Co? ICC Ex 1/1 City of London Yeo (11066) and Stafford Yeo (301840)"

Can I ask what records you might have that confirms this?  Is this based on the service no assigned or where/when other City of London Yeomanry were also assigned to 9th Co?

Trying to piece together other information – it suggests that he enlisted around 1915 and could have been transferred into the ICC in March 1916.  We understand that he was disembodied on 30.07.19 – though we aren’t sure when he might have been moved from the Camel Corps back to the Yeomanry and how long he might have spent in the Middle East. 
 

After the war he emigrated to Australia with his young family and lived  in Queensland for the remainder of his life.  I often wonder if the exposure to Australian troops in the ICC was a contributing factor to his decision to emigrate.   He enlisted again this time in the Australian Army during WWII, stationed only in Australia it seems.  From the records it looks like he dropped his age in order to meet the age restrictions. 

Reading through your replies to others has been incredibly helpful.  
 

Any information you might have would be really appreciated.

 

Kind Regards

Tracey Hurren

 

image.png.1f43ee2ac372bbb174a36875460f2c33.png

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Tracey,

 

Yes you have what I have at presant.

 

I notice like my Grandfather he also served in WWII in the Accounts officer in WA, while yours served in the same in Qld.

 

Old Soldiers 

 

Charlie appears to be among a group who came later to the ICC, but the date so far has alluded me.

 

Fahy    Joseph P.    51440    Sgt    Tos possibly 9Co? shown ICC to 5Co MID - reason not stated Ex 17th Lancers (6114) to 1/1 City of London Yeo (Rough Riders) (13393) to Corps of Lancers see medal index cards 
Smith    Charles V.    51441    Pte    shown 7Co ICC Ex 1/1st Ayrshire Yeo (2316) also shown as (51141) and Corps of Hussars (51411)
Marlborough (Marlbrough)    Thomas W    51442    Pte    shown ICC Ex Essex Yeo (729) to 1/1 Hereford Yeo (106481) shown Kew records
Beesley    John A.    51443    Pte    Tos possibly 9Co? shown ICC Ex 1/1 Warwick Yeo (2657) to Spr Royal Engineers (193477)
Hurren    Charles Gladstone    51444    Pte    Tos possibly 9Co? shown ICC Ex 1/1 City of London Yeo (Rough Riders) (11066) and Stafford Yeo (301840) and Corps of Hussars 
White    George J.    51447    Pte    possibly ICC? Ex Lancer (419) and 1/1 Nottingham Yeo (Sherwood Rangers) (51447) and Corps of Hussars (76104) see medal index cards 
Kirkpatrick    James    51451    Pte    shown ICC Ex 1/1 Nottingham Yeo (South Notts Hussars) (2769) and Corps of Hussars (51451)
 

I think 9th Company as the CofL Yeomanry mostly went to that Company but so far I can't confirm?

 

As to when he transfered into the ICC, then to the Staffords, I can't confirm, only its possible late in 1918 as the Camel Corps was reduced after June 1918 and many men were sent to other units or returned to there original units.

 

Around the July the 9th Company was on the Canal between Gamiel and Ferry Post with the 8th Company, remainder of the 2Bn was with TEL fighting in Arabia, so Charlie may have gone somewhere to get back into the fighting?

 

Of cause they also could have been in Oct 1918 when both the 9th and 10th Companies were disbanded.

 

So not much I can help here as the men around his number appear just a mixed bag from many different units, theres a great number, just to give you some idea;

 

Harrison    Harold    51428    Pte    shown ICC Ex 1/1 Worcester Yeo (76407) and Corps of Hussars shown Kew records
Johns     Leslie W    51429    Pte    Tos possibly 9Co? shown ICC Ex County of London Yeo (81539) and Devon Regt (2609) and Essex Yeo and Corps of Hussars
Crippa    Alexander    51431    Pte    Tos possibly 9Co? shown ICC Ex 1/1 City of London Yeo (Rough Riders) (1875) and Corps of Hussars (327161)
Brown    Alfred G.    51432    Pte    Tos possibly 9Co? shown ICC Ex 1/2 County of London Yeo (Westminster Dragoons) (7783) to 2 Dragoon Guards (389702)
Griffiths    John W.    51432    A/Cpl    Tos possibly 9Co? shown ICC Ex 5th Dragoon Guards (5372) and 1/2 County of London Yeo (Westminster Dragoons) (16427)
Caunce    Henry    51434    Pte    Tos possibly 9Co? shown ICC Ex Corps of Hussars (76405) shown Kew records
Picking    George J.    51437    Pte    Tos possibly 9Co? shown ICC Ex County of London Yeo (327144) and Corps of Hussars to Worcester Yeo (327144)
Dolan    James    51438    Pte    Tos possibly 9Co? ICC? Ex County of London Yeo (14304) and Corps of Hussars
 

Gisborne    George F.    51452    Pte    Possibly ICC? Ex 1/1 Nottingham Yeo (South Notts Hussars) (906) and Corps of Hussars
Lawrence    James    51453    Pte    Possibly ICC? Ex 1/1 Nottingham Yeo (South Notts Hussars) (1018) and Corps of Hussars shown Kew records
Mervill    George Herbert    51454    Pte    Possibly ICC? Ex 1/1 Nottingham Yeo (South Notts Hussars) (1899) and Corps of Hussars
Foster    Frank    51455    Pte    Possibly ICC? Ex 1/1 Nottingham Yeo (South Notts Hussars) (1067) and Corps of Hussars
Richardson    George W.    51456    Pte    Possibly ICC? Ex 1/1 Nottingham Yeo (South Notts Hussars) (798) and Corps of Hussars
Briggs    Arthur    51459    Pte    possibly ICC? Ex Derby Yeo (2235) and Corps of Hussars
Gibson    David    51462    Pte    possibly ICC? Ex 1/1 City of London Yeo (Rough Riders) (1764) and Corps of Hussars
Bull    George L.    51463    Pte    possibly ICC? Ex 1/1 Lincoln Yeo (27855) and Corps of Hussars
Moreton    Thomas S    51465    Pte    shown ICC Ex 1/1 Cheshire Yeo (660) and Corps of Hussars
France    William    51467    Pte    possibly ICC? Ex Royal Welsh Fusiliers (42287) and Corps of Hussars
Duggan    William Emanuel    51468    Pte    shown ICC Ex Royal Irish Rifles (1/40956) and Camel Corps Egyptian Army
 

Sorry about that but its now to long for us to find out?

 

Hope this helps, if you need more on possibly is Company and its travels let me known

 

Cheers

 

S.B

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Hi Steve,

 

Thank you so much for your quick reply - very helpful.  I am trying to pull some of this together for my Dad who also has an interest in the military history. 

 

Given so much time has passed my Dad doesn't have a lot of recollection of stories shared when he was a boy - beyond a strong memory that Charlie was based on the Suez Canal for a while...where they used the camels to drag chains along the bank everyday to check next morning if anyone had crossed during the night. As a child I remember seeing that he had written up some memoirs - which are now sadly lost - would have loved the opportunity to read them now. 

 

One more question if I could trouble you - do you have any list that summarises a bit more re the 09th Company locations or events?   

Thanks again

Tracey

 

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Mate,

 

No worries.

 

My GF also was short on details all he said was he rode a camel like TEL, this was in the sixties after the movie came out.

 

Only later did we find a photo like yours of him on a camel, which looks like most of the men did back then.

 

Cheers

 

S.B

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Mate,

 

An outline of the 9th Company during the war.

 

30-4-16  9Co under Maj the Earl Winterton (8th (Yeomanry) Mtd Bde - 1/1 County of London *Middlesex Hussars 1/3 County of London *Sharpshooters, 1/1 City of London *Rough riders & 1/1 West Kent Yeo) arrived ICC depot

24-6-16   9Co under Capt Winterton (5 officers 108 men 136 camels) moved to Shalloufa (Lt's Combe - Marsh - Stephens - Dyott?)

 

31-7-16   LtCol Smith VC to gather 4Co 6Co 9Co & 10Co on the Canal

3-8-16   4Co at El Ferdan moved to join 6Co 9Co and 10Co of Moblie Column under LtCol Smith

4-8-16   Camel Bn under Maj de Knoop formed (4Co 6Co 9Co & 10Co) with 4Co (4 officers 108 men 144 camels) & 10Co (4 officers 107 men 136 camels) moved to Bir el Mahadat for Romani operations

 

 

5-8-16   Camel Bn moved from Mahadat via Bada to Hill 385 with 6Co engagement at Hamisah

6-8-16   Camel Bn arrived Mageibra and moved to Bir el Aweidiya and engaged the Turks (4Co 6Co 9Co 10Co)

7-8-16   Camel Bn moved from Aweidiya to Bir el Bayud 11LHR captured prisoners, moved to Hod el Muhammam where Camel Bn with 4Co & 6Co attacked and Maj de Knoop & Lt the Barron De Rutzen OC 6Co were killed & Maj Bardwell 10Co took command and withdrawal to Mageibra (reported total columns (LH & Yeomanry and ICC) casualties 2 officers 12 men killed and 1 officer and 37 men wounded)

8-8-16   Camel Bn arrived Mageibra around 0200 bombed by plane & Lt Ashlin replaced Maj Bardwell 10Co & Lt Pettit replaced Lt the Barron De Rutzen 6Co killed at Hod el Muhammam

8-8-16   15Co NZ under Capt McCallum (5 officers 125 men) arrived ICC depot

9-8-16   4Co & 10Co under Maj Bardwell moved to Hill 280 near Hod el Bayud

10-8-16   4Co 9Co & 10Co moved to Bir el Abd to support LH who engaged at Mushalfat (Homossia) and retired to Bayud

11-8-16   4Co 9Co & 10Co under Maj Bardwell attacked by Turks at Bir el Bayud  Smith's Column retired to Mageibra

12-8-16   9Co att Troop 11 LHR to Bayud

14-8-16   9Co patrol Bayud area

29-8-16   9Co to Shalluga (mate during the next few months the 9th Company was by itself)

30-8-16   all ICC companies to increase to (179 men) 184 all ranks

1917

5-1-17   9Co 1/2 moved to Geneffe & 1/2 to Kabrit around Shallufa  (it was still by itself, the Camel bde was formed in Dec 1916, but without the 8Co, 9Co and 10Co)

15-2-17  operation to Nekhl from Serapeum by LtCol Grant's 11 LHR (420 men) + part 124 FAmb (26 men) + Wireless pack Sect with Capt Stirling Gen Staff & Lt Stuart Intell officer along with 9Co (60 men) from Shallufa return 22-2-17

18-3-17  9Co moved from Ayun Musa to El Arish & Capt Orchardson replaced Maj Winterton 9Co (the 9Co now joined the 2Bn Camel bde)

24-3-17  9Co under Maj Winterton (6 officers 166 men 186 camels) arrived ICC bde - 9Co officers (Lt's Orchardson (2ic) - Newsom - Marsh - Combe - Stephens) Maj Winterton to 2ic 2Bn and Lt Orchardson to OC 9Co

26/27-3-17  Battle at 1st Gaza

Camel Bde HQ 1Bn ICC (1Co 3Co 4Co 15Co) 2Bn ICC (5Co 6Co 7Co 9Co) 3Bn ICC (11Co 12Co 14Co) HKSMB 26 MG Sqn (265 MG Co) 1/1 Scottish Horse FAmb

19-4-17 Battle at 2nd Gaza

 

Camel Bde HQ

BrigGen Smith VC

 

Bde/Maj Stocker

1st Battalion

LtCol Langley

1st Co

Capt Cashman

 

Maj Mills (2ic)

2nd Co

Capt Campbell

 

Adjt Capt Goldenstedt

3rd Co

Capt Naylor KIA

 

 

4th Co

Capt Denson

2nd British Battalion

LtCol Gardner

5th Co

Capt Wilson

 

Maj Winterton (2ic)

6th Co

Capt Houghton

 

Adjt Capt Tod

7th Co

Capt Gregory

 

 

9th Co

Capt Orchardson KIA

3rd Anzac Battalion

LtCol De Lancey-Forth WIA

11th Co

Capt Creswell

 

Maj Donovan (2ic)

12th Co

Capt Norris

 

Adjt Capt Hemphill

14th Co

Capt Tolmer

 

 

15th NZ Co

Capt Priest KIA

HK&S Batty

Maj Moore

 

 

265 MG Co (26 MG Sqn)

Maj Millar

 

 

1/1st Scottish Horse FAmb

Maj Mason

 

 

 

Total casualties 4 officers and 41 men killed with 19 officers and 271 men wounded (killed Capt Naylor Capt Orchardson Capt Priest with Lt Chapman HK&SMB) with Lt's Fender and Hill died of wounds

 

22-4-17   ICC Bde moved to Abasan Kebir & Capt Day replaced Capt Orchardson 9Co KIA & 2/Lt Ranclaud T/OC 3Co

23-4-17   ICC Bde moved to Abu Sitta

1-5-17      9Co (Capt Day OC Lt Brothers (2ic) Lt Gowlett & Strickland)

19-5-17   ICC Bde escorted by Imperial MD moved to Rafa for the Auja Raid along with Asluj Raid by Anzac MD arrived 21-5-17

21-5-17   began demo of rail line around Auja Station and bridges over the Wadi Husaniya & Wadi Abiab

11-8-17   reported 2Bn ICC group under LtCol Gardner (5Co 6Co 7Co 9Co) (26 officers 537 men) raid on the Sena Redoubt (raiding force 26 officers 432 men) + part 4Bn ICC under LtCol Lee to support

 

30-10-17  ICC Bde on operations around Beersheba moved to Taweil el Habari 2xCo's 3Bn ICC replaced 2xCo's 2Bn to Fort Kent and with 10Co att 4Bn ICC reported 3Bn strength 25 officers 647 men

 

31-10-17 Battle Beersheba

Camel Bde HQ 2Bn (7Co 8Co 9Co 10Co) 3Bn (11Co 12Co 13Co 14Co) 4Bn (15Co 16Co 17Co 18Co) HK&SMB 26 MG Sqn and ACFA + 2xBn's Royal Fusiliers

1-11-17   fighting around Beersheba & Capt Bell replaced Capt Norris 12Co & Capt Day replaced Capt Paterson 8Co & Capt Newsam replaced Capt Day 9Co to T/OC 8Co

5-11-17   2Bn ICC & 4Bn ICC moved to Ras el Nagb

 

27 Nov to 5 Dec 1917  Battle at Bald Hill

 

Camel Bde HQ

BrigGen Smith VC

 

Bde/Maj Stocker

2nd British Battalion

LtCol Buxton

7th Co

Capt Gregory (KIA)

 

2ic Maj Winterton

8th Co

Capt Day

 

Adjt Capt Tod

9th Co

Capt Newsam

 

 

10th Co

Capt Wilkinson

3rd Anzac battalion

LtCol DeLancey-Forth

11th Co

Capt Dixon

 

2ic unknown

12th Co

Capt Bell

 

Adjt Lt Hornby

13th Co

Capt Howard

 

 

14th Co

Capt Ranclaud

4th Anzac Battalion

LtCol Lee

15th NZ Co

Lt Black

 

2ic Maj Hemphill (NZ)

16th NZ Co

Capt Yerex

 

Adjt

17th Co

Capt Hampton

 

 

18th Co

Capt

Camel FAmb

LtCol Arnold

 

 

26th MG Sqn

Maj Millar

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5-12-17   ICC Bde relived by NZMB in the Bald Hill defences during night

6-12-17   ICC Bde returned to Shellal arrived 10-12-17

1918

3-18

Reported companies reorg with extra men forming into Demo parties and attach to each company increasing strength from 179 men each Company reduced to 5 officers and 129 men 154 riding camels and 18 baggage camels for Amman operation

10-3-18   ICC Bde left Shellal to began moving to Bethlehem ICC Bde concentrated around Solomans Pools 18-3-18

21-3-18   ICC Bde moved to Tal’at ed Dumm arrived 23-3-18

24-3-18   ICC Bde crossed the Jordan

 

27/30-3-18 Battle of Amman

 

Camel Bde HQ

BrigGen Smith  VC

 

Bde/Maj Nash-Wortham

 

 

 

 

1st Anzac Battalion

LtCol Langley WIA to Capt Denson

1st Co

Lt Nicholson

 

2ic Maj Nobbs

2nd Co

Capt Mills

 

Adjt Capt Campbell

3rd Co

Capt Hogue

 

 

4th Co

Capt Denson /Lt Matthews

 

 

 

 

2nd British Battalion

LtCol Buxton

7th Co

Capt Deas

 

2ic Maj Day

8th Co

Capt Tredinnick

 

Adjt Capt Hornby

9th Co

Capt Newsom  (KIA)

 

 

10th Co

Lt Lyall  (KIA)

 

 

 

 

4th Anzac Battalion

LtCol Mills

13th Co

Capt Howard

 

2ic Maj Hemphill (NZ)

16th NZ Co

Capt Yerex

 

Adjt Lt Treweek (NZ)

17th Co

Capt Hampton

 

 

18th Co

Maj Kessels WIA

 

 

 

 

HKSB

Maj Moore

 

 

26 MG Sqn

Maj Millar

 

 

Camel FAmb

LtCol McLaren

 

 

 

less 1Co on escort duty and 3Co on Jordan and half 2Co as escort to ICC Bde HQ and ACFA att 2Co's 2/18Bn London Regt under Capt Crossby 30-3-18

 4-18      2/Lt Jones arrived 10Co - Lt Inchbald replaced Capt Tredinnick OC 8Co & Lt Brothers replaced Capt Newsam OC 9Co KIA & Lt Snow replaced Lt Lyall OC 10Co KIA & Capt Tredinnick replaced Capt Hornby Adjt 2Bn HQ WIA & Capt Howard replaced Maj Kessels OC 18Co WIA

 

1-4-18   ICC Bde arrived Tel el Sultan near Jericho

 

10-4-18  2Bn relieved by 1Bn in line at Mussallabeh - Lt JC Smith T/replaces Capt Hampton OC 13Co return 17Co 12-5-18

11-4-18 Battle of Mussallabeh

 

Camel Brigade HQ

BrigGen Smith VC

 

Bde/Maj Nash-Wortham

 

 

 

 

1st Anzac Battalion

LtCol Langley

1st Co

Capt Wright

 

2ic Maj Nobbs

2nd Co

Capt Mills

 

Adjt

3rd Co

Capt Hogue

 

 

4th Co

Lt Love

 

 

 

 

2nd British Battalion

LtCol Bassatt

7th British Co

Capt Deas

 

2ic Capt Tod

8th British Co

Lt Inchbald WIA

 

Adjt Capt Tredinnick

9th British Co

Lt Brothers

 

 

10th British Co

Capt Patterson

 

 

 

 

4th Anzac Battalion

LtCol Mills

13th Co

Lt Smith

 

2ic Maj Hemphill (NZ)

16th NZ Co

Capt Yerex

 

Adjt Lt Treweek (NZ)

17th Co

Capt Hampton

 

 

18th Co

Capt Howard

 

 

 

 

HKSB

Maj Moore

 

 

26 MG Sqn

Maj Millar

 

 

Camel FAmb

LtCol Mc Laren

 

 

 

2/3-5-18 Battle of Es Salt

ICC Bde 1Bn (1Co 2Co 3Co 4Co) 2Bn (7Co 8Co 9Co 10Co) 4Bn (13Co 16Co 17Co 18Co) 26 MG Sqn and ACFA

attack by the 8Co and 18Co to support fighting across the Jordan

11-5-18   2Bn ICC moved to Talat el Dum arrived 13-5-18

 

13-5-18   ICC Bde moved to Khirbet Deiran arrived 16-5-18

16-5-18   ICC Bde arrived Ramlah

During month 2Bn ICC returned to Ismailia took over 3Bn ICC positions along the Canal

10-6-18   9Co took over from 15Co at Ferdan

 

24-7-18  2Bn ICC (7Co 10Co) under Maj Buxton moved from Kubri to join (TEL) Lawrence's Arab forces while 8Co & 9Co remained on the Canal between Gamiel to Ferry post

31-7-18  2Bn ICC (-) arrived Akaba

10-18    Possibly 9Co and 10Co disbanded around this date (TBC?) (no date found so far?)

May 1919

records show 2Bn ICC (less 9Co and 10Co) disbanded at Abbassia

 

Mate that's the story I have on the 9Co during the war.

 

Hope that helps you and your family.

 

Cheers


S.B

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215236 Benjamin Ernest Payne 2/1 Denbighshire Hussars. Also R. W. Fus. From Mumbles Swansea. Died 20. 7. 1918. Have you got any information on Payne.?.   Lyn.

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Lyn,

 

Mate I check all records but had trouble finding him?

 

He is not shown on the MIC under Denbigh Yeomanry or under that number?

 

They show two men by the name Payne, Thomas (1535) and Henry (1626)

 

I have also two men named Payne in the ICC

 

Payne    Albert C.    50820    Pte    Tos 9Co? 4-16 shown ICC Ex 1/1 County of London Yeo (Middlesex Hussars) (3887) and Corps of Hussars shown Kew records
Payne    Fred    51174    Pte    Tos possibly 7Co? shown ICC to L/Cpl shown arrived at 5Co with CQMS Loten 10-18 Ex London Regt (3459) and Corps of Hussars 
 

So sorry I can't find him at present

 

I have around 32 men from that Denbigh Yeomanry Regt and all served in the 6th Company ICC

 

You will notice that most came from the 24Bn RWF, this happened in Egypt when the Denbigh's were converted into the RWF for the Yeomanry Division

 

As you can see when that happened there numbers changed to a 345*** number not as you have a 215***

 

No the off chance his number maybe 345236 I checked but no, it did show a Denbigh Yeomanry man, named William Mapp (908) and RWF (345236) So he followed the same course.

 

These are the Denbigh Men I have

 

Vickers    Alfred    50378    Cpl    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC shown Cpl led patrol to Sebil from Sollum 1-18 Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (697) and Corps of Hussars to 24Bn Royal Welsh Fusiliers (345185) to Royal Engineers (WR/291088)
Hughes    John    50379    Cpl    Tos 6Co? 5-16 ICC? Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (413) and Corps of Hussars
Brassen (Brassey)    Geofrey T    50382    Pte    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC? shown L/Cpl led patrol to Sebil from Sollum 3-18 Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (5243) and Corps of Hussars
Davies    William J    50383    Pte    Tos 6Co? 5-16 ICC? Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (3221) and Corps of Hussars
Davies    John H    50384    Pte    Tos 6Co? 5-16 ICC? Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (5279) and Corps of Hussars to 24Bn Royal Welsh Fusiliers (345459)
Evans    E    50387    Pte    Tos 6Co? 5-16 ICC? Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (537) and Corps of Hussars
Evans    Harry    50388    Pte    Tos 6Co? 5-16 ICC? Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (372) and Corps of Hussars  shown Kew records (50533)
Evans    Robert    50389    Pte    Tos 6Co? 5-16 ICC? Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (345197) and Corps of Hussars
Gunter    George F.    50390    Pte    Tos 6Co? 5-16 ICC Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (552) and Corps of Hussars later 24Bn Royal Welsh Fusiliers (345119)
Gross    William R.    50391    Pte    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC WIA 1-9-18 reported wounded with Pte Hughes by arabs at Bir Jip near Sollum Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (3213) and Corps of Hussars
Hughes    Albert H.    50392    Pte    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC WIA 1-9-18 reported wounded with Pte Gross by arabs at Bir Jip near Sollum Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (474) and Corps of Hussars later 24Bn Royal Welsh Fusiliers (4184685)
Holburt    John T.    50393    Pte    Tos 6Co? 5-16 ICC Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (1412) and Corps of Hussars AKA Holbert
Jones    Binuel    50394    Pte    Tos 6Co? 5-16 ICC? Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (650) and Corps of Hussars
Jones     Robert V.    50395    Pte    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC Ex 1/ Denbigh Yeo (3153) and Corps of Hussars
Jones    Hugh    50396    Pte    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC shown Cpl led patrol to Sebil from Sollum 1-18 Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (433) and Corps of Hussars later 24Bn Royal Welsh Fusiliers (345044)
Jones    Frank    50397    Pte    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (50397) and Corps of Hussars
Jones    John    50398    Pte    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (586) and 24Bn Royal Welsh Fusiliers (340146) later Royal Engineers (WR/195555)
Manning    Charles H    50401    Pte    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (521) and Corps of Hussars
Nickson    Robert L    50403    Pte    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (590) and Corps of Hussars
Pearson    John A.    50405    Pte    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (1051) and Corps of Hussars to 24Bn Royal Welsh Fusiliers (T345260) to Royal Engineers (456827)
Poyall    George    50406    Pte    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (657) and Corps of Hussars
Richardson    Griffith    50407    Pte    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (776) and Corps of Hussars to 24Bn Royal Welsh Fusiliers (345205) to Royal Engineers (WR/193272)
Smith    James    50408    Pte    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC to 10Co Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (1223) and Corps of Hussars
Hughes    Thomas    50409    Pte    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (1382) and Corps of Hussars
Thomas    G.    50410    Pte    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (742) and Corps of Hussars
Waring    Joseph E.    50411    Pte    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (1002) and Corps of Hussars
Wright    Lloyd    50415    Pte    Tos 6Co 5-16 ICC Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (357) and Corps of Hussars
Whittaker    Lawrence    50416    Pte    Tos 6Co? 5-16 ICC? Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (1240) and Corps of Hussars to 24Bn Royal Welsh Fusiliers (345306)
Jones    Thomas H    50439    Pte    Tos 6Co? 5-16 ICC? Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (2001) and Corps of Hussars
Carman    Benjamin    51391    Pte    Tos possibly 6Co? ICC? Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (526) and Corps of Hussars
Harris    Joseph W.    51396    Pte    Tos possibly 6Co? ICC? Ex 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (3230) and Corps of Hussars
Burton    Sidney Howard        2/Lt    6Co ICC shown took relief from Sollum to Augerin 3-18 to Capt Ex Cpl 1/1 Denbigh Yeo (378) to 24Bn Royal Welsh Fusiliers (345022) to 5 Res Cav Regt
 

Sorry maybe someone else may have luck finding him?

 

S.B

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S.B.  Thank you for some outstanding research. I’ve got some more that might be of interest to you.

1034 J. L. Binner.  Denbigh Yeo. 345259 24th. R. W. Fus. Died 6. 11 1917.

345795 H. Brown 24th. R.W. Fus. M. M. Winner. C.de G. Winner.

2050 A. Francis Montgom. Yeo. Died 5.11.1918

5197  E. Thomas. Pembroke Yeo. Died 10. 9. 1916.

Lyn.

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Brief intrusion,

5197 Evan Thomas was 3/1st Pembs. Yeo. but attached 13th Bn. Welsh Regiment and died of wounds in France.  He was from Llanwrtyd Wells and I used to own his medals.

 

Clive

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Clive. 5197 Pte. E. Thomas Pembroke Yeo . On his M. I. Card. States Corps Of Hussars.  His name I think is in the old police station in Llanwrtyd Wells. Thank you for the information about the 13th. Bn. Welsh Regiment.    Lyn.

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  • 4 months later...
On 22/05/2020 at 10:58, Ghazala said:

The first time the camels heard the bagpipes they stampeded.  Highland regiments and camels did not get on.

Mr. Ghazala, I'm not surprised at all, the agony bags are enough to give any creature the screaming habjabs! 😄 

On another subject, do you know anything about the Scottish officer of horse Lawrence mentions in Desert Revolt who was killed in an accident at Azrak? There is no mention I have seen of Scottish cavalry in the area at the time, or was he a lone officer attached to another unit maybe? 

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Is this the incident?

Next day we walked gently to Azrak. When we were over the last ridge of lava-pebbles and saw the ring of the Mejaber graves, that most beautifully put of cemeteries, I trotted forward with my men, to be sure against accident in the place, and to feel again its remoteness before the others came.

We rested there two days, the refreshment of the pools being so great. Buxton rode with me to the fort, to examine the altar of Diocletian and Maximilian, meaning to add a word in favour of King George the Fifth; but our stay was poisoned by the grey flies, and then ruined by a tragic accident. An Arab, shooting fish in the fort pool, dropped his rifle, which exploded and killed instantly Lieutenant Rowan, of the Scottish Horse. We buried him in the little Mejaber graveyard, whose spotless quiet had long been my envy.”

 

There's a good deal about Lt Rowan to be seen here:- https://cowdenbeathwarmemorial.wordpress.com/r/

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Mate,

 

As Michael shows, the ICC wrote a bit about this because the editor of the later ICC magazine was there and had a bit to say about TEL and his Arabs, that he was shot by the arab on purpose not an accident, over a disagreement about the fish?

 

I have this on Rowan;

 

Rowan    Robert        Lt    ToS possibly 26 MG Sqn (265 MG Co) or 7Co 10-16 shown as Intell officer HQ/ICC Bde during Sena raid 8-17 shown 7Co on patrol with Lt Flannery and Braine & 51 men to Maghara 7-18 shown 7Co to Intell officer HQ 2Bn with Buxton's Force to TEL 7-18 DoA 22-8-18 murdered reported accidently (murdered at a water hole) killed by arab (TELs bodyguard) at (Azrak) Wadi Rumm buried Ramleh War Cemetery Palestine Ex Pte 1/2 Scottish Horse to Gallipoli 9-15 prom 2/Lt 1916 age 26 brothers John & Gilbert

 

How he came to the ICC is not clear when he was ToS. and what sub unit?

 

S.B

Edited by stevebecker
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Lt Rowan was killed at Azrak and given a temporary burial there

Post war, when his body was recovered for reburial, I wonder why it ended up in Ramleh and not Jerusalem

(which it would have had to pass to get to Ramleh) ?

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  • 1 year later...

Mate,

If only I had the coin for this?

Ashlin    Charles Harry Norman        Lt    Tos 10Co 5-16 (commanded East Riding Sect (40 men from ERY) to T/OC 10Co (from Bardwell) 8-16 shown WIA 11-8-16 at Bir el Bayud (in Inchbald's book) to 2-17 Ex 1/1 East Riding Yeo (2876) to Royal Air Force pilot later Wing Commander RAF WWII born 1892 died 1972    
 

Wilkingson is shown replaced Ashlin in Feb 1917 until he was replaced Dec 1917

Its unknown when Ashlin returned to the 10Co, after being wounded, but he possibly went to the RFC around Feb 1917 as he leaves around then from ICC records

S.B

Edited by stevenbecker
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  • 2 months later...

I have in my collection the Military Medal to 50319 PTE – A L.CPL - R. FORSYTH. 7/COY; I.C.C.  Does anyone know for what action/where it was gained.

Robert Forsyth initially served as Private, 2330, Lanarkshire Yeomanry and then as Private 50319, Corps of Hussars. His Medal Index Card mentions nothing of Imperial Camel Corps. His Military Medal Roll Card states Private Acting Lance Corporal, 50319, Imperial Camel Corps and gives a London Gazette date of 20 August 1919. 

Any assistance or information is appreciated.

John

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Mate,

Sorry but I have no record of when he gained his award.

Forsyth    Robert    50319    L/Cpl    Tos 7Co ICC 7-16 MM - reason not stated Ex 1/1 Lanark Yeo (2330) and Corps of Hussars 
 

I should add that a number of 7th Company soldiers gained their awards possibly in fighting at Amman 27-30 March 1918

Simco    Frederick E    50050    Pte    Tos possibly 8Co? 4-16 reported to 7Co WIA 29-3-18 (minor) at Amman & MM - possibly at Amman Ex 1/1 Bucks Yeo (1564) to Corps of Hussars
Fisher    Robert Riddock    51232    Pte    Tos 7Co ICC WIA 27-3-18 at Amman & MM - possibly at Amman Ex Yorkshire Light Infantry (22091) and Indian Camel Corps

Most MM awarded to soldiers don't show where they were gained
 

Heavy fighting over a number of days in front of Amman gained many awards

The only other 7th Company battle that saw a number of awards was at Bald Hill 27-30 Nov 1917

Sorry that's not much help

S.B

Edited by stevenbecker
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  • 1 year later...

Hi there, I’m looking to find the engagements of No. 2 Company, Imperial Camel Corps as my Great Great Grandfather (he is my pfp) was in it. You mentioned him briefly on page 4 at the bottom at Musallabah he was the Private Tom McGrath the one going from post to post throwing bombs. Anyway, I’m thinking of writing some of his history in the First World War for my family and all I need to know is where he’d be at with his unit. If it matters, he was with the No. 2 Company ICC from January 29th 1916 until July 1st 1918 when he was put into the new 14th Light Horse Regiment. @tankengine888 has some information about him too.

Cheers,

Random

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https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1338867

 

That is the 2nd ICC war diary.

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Mate,

Much of this can be found in the known books on the Camel Corps but I can give an outline of the 2nd Company.

I take it you mean , 

image.png.57d4e69cd5c575e0e89cf862ee224fac.png

The 2nd Company had a long service in the ICC being one of the first raised.

30-1-16  2Co (1Bde & 2Bde - 1Bn to 4Bn & 5Bn to 8Bn) arrived ICC depot Abbassia

26-2-16  2Co under Lt Adams (5 officers 123 men) moved to Matruh (Lt's Morgan - Goldenstedt 2 sect - Nicholson 4 Sect - other not confirmed)

6-3-16   2Co moved to Sollum from Matruh

17-3-16  2Co supported the Duke of Westminster Armoured Car unit to Bir Hakkim to rescue the crews of the ships Tara & Moorina from Senussi

22-5-16  2Co under T/OC Capt Dyott 9Co at Sollum

28-5-16  2Co under Lt Adams / Capt Dyott 9Co (5 officers 115 men 137 camels) at Matruh

18-6-16   Lt Adams returned to CTU to AFC,  Lt Goldenstedt T/OC 2Co

24-6-16   2Co under Lt Goldenstedt / Capt Dyott 9Co  (5 officers 123 men 155 camels)

1-7-16   Sgt Young 2Co prom 2/Lt 4Co

19-8-16   Lt Morgan to OC 2Co (4 officers 120 men 148 camels) at Sollum

(2Co missed the big battles in Sinai during 1916 and early 1917)

4-3-17   2Co (5 officers 154 men) arrived at ICC depot from Sollum

12-3-17   2Co (6 officers 171 men) under Capt Morgan left ICC depot to Canal (Lt's Clarke - Scott-Higgins - Young - Nicholson - other not confirmed) arrived at ICC Bde 28-3-17

28-3-17   2Co under Capt Morgan (6 officers 163 men 220 camels 4 natives) arrived ICC bde (2ic Lt Nicholson - Lt's Clarke - Young - Scott-Higgins - other unknown) shown Lt Scott-Higgins returned 11Co

29-3-17   2Co joined Camel Bde at Belah next day replaced 15Co in 1Bn ICC & Capt Morgan 2Co to Court of Inquiry - Lt Nicholson T/replaced him

8-4-17    2Co (6 officers 160 men 4 natives 205 camels) & 4Co  (6 officers 161 men 4 natives 180 camels)

 

11-4-17   2/Lt Finlay arrived 11Co & 2/Lt Fender moved to 2Co from 3Co

13-4-17   Capt Campbell replaced Lt Nicholson 2Co (other officers replaced due to court of Inquiry into Capt Morgan)

19-4-17 Battle at 2nd Gaza

 

Camel Bde HQ

BrigGen Smith VC

 

Bde/Maj Stocker

1st Battalion

LtCol Langley

1st Co

Capt Cashman

 

Maj Mills (2ic)

2nd Co

Capt Campbell

 

Adjt Capt Goldenstedt

3rd Co

Capt Naylor KIA

 

 

4th Co

Capt Denson

2nd British Battalion

LtCol Gardner

5th Co

Capt Wilson

 

Maj Winterton (2ic)

6th Co

Capt Houghton

 

Adjt Capt Tod

7th Co

Capt Gregory

 

 

9th Co

Capt Orchardson KIA

3rd Anzac Battalion

LtCol De Lancey-Forth WIA

11th Co

Capt Creswell

 

Maj Donovan (2ic)

12th Co

Capt Norris

 

Adjt Capt Hemphill

14th Co

Capt Tolmer

 

 

15th NZ Co

Capt Priest KIA

HK&S Batty

Maj Moore

 

 

265 MG Co (26 MG Sqn)

Maj Millar

 

 

1/1st Scottish Horse FAmb

Maj Mason

 

 

 

Total casualties 4 officers and 41 men killed with 19 officers and 271 men wounded (killed Capt Naylor Capt Orchardson Capt Priest with Lt Chapman HK&SMB) with Lt's Fender and Hill died of wounds

1/2-5-17  Comp Co (2Co & 3Co) under Capt Campbell (4 officers 152 men 191 camels) to El Arish then Auja and to Ferry Post by 16-5-17

13-5-17   2Co (2 officers 89 men 4 natives 116 camels)

22-5-17   Operation to Nekhl 1Bn ICC by Maj Mills (parts 2Co 3Co 4Co) moved from Serapeum

26-5-17   Maj Mills force arrived Nekhl destroyed wells returned by 1-6-17

5-6-17    2Co moved to Kubri - Ayun Musa to repace 13Co arrived 9-6-17

2-9-17   Capt Goldenstedt repaced Capt Campbell OC 2Co when he moved to ICC Bde HQ for staff training, Lt Smyth Sig Officer 1Bn replaced Goldenstedt as Adjt

4-10-17   2/Lt Nield arrived 2Co

4-10-17    Capt Goldenstedt OC 2Co to ICC Bde HQ for Staff Training & Lt Nicholson to T/OC 2Co

7-10-17   Akaba Survey party - Part 2Co on patrol of 1Bn ICC under Maj Mills and Lt Gull (Intell officer) with Maj Schieber Egyptian State Telegraph Survey party (3 officers 41 men 64 camels) along the Pilgrim route to Akaba taking seven days to get there

17-10-17   Akaba Survey party part 2Co under Maj Mills at Akaba meet TEL just return from raid on Maan

(missed the fighting at 3rd Gaza and at Bald Hill)

2-3-18   2Co (5 officers 182 men 2 natives 188 camels)

11-3-18   1Bn ICC (18 officers 611 men 779 camels) left Shellal to Deiran for Amman Raid stopped at Hareira for night (1Co 2Co 3Co 4Co)

22-3-18   1Bn arrived Tataat ed Dumm

 

27/30-3-18 Battle of Amman

Camel Bde HQ

BrigGen Smith  VC

 

Bde/Maj Nash-Wortham

 

 

 

 

1st Anzac Battalion

LtCol Langley WIA to Capt Denson

1st Co

Lt Nicholson

 

2ic Maj Nobbs

2nd Co

Capt Mills

 

Adjt Capt Campbell

3rd Co

Capt Hogue

 

 

4th Co

Capt Denson /Lt Matthews

 

 

 

 

2nd British Battalion

LtCol Buxton

7th Co

Capt Deas

 

2ic Maj Day

8th Co

Capt Tredinnick

 

Adjt Capt Hornby

9th Co

Capt Newsom  (KIA)

 

 

10th Co

Lt Lyall  (KIA)

 

 

 

 

4th Anzac Battalion

LtCol Mills

13th Co

Capt Howard

 

2ic Maj Hemphill (NZ)

16th NZ Co

Capt Yerex

 

Adjt Lt Treweek (NZ)

17th Co

Capt Hampton

 

 

18th Co

Maj Kessels WIA

 

 

 

 

HKSB

Maj Moore

 

 

26 MG Sqn

Maj Millar

 

 

Camel FAmb

LtCol McLaren

 

 

 less 1Co on escort duty and 3Co on Jordan and half 2Co as escort to ICC Bde HQ and ACFA att 2Co's 2/18Bn London Regt under Capt Crossby 30-3-18

6-4-18   2Co (5 officers 166 men 2 natives 172 camels)

11-4-18 Battle of Mussallabeh

Camel Brigade HQ

BrigGen Smith VC

 

Bde/Maj Nash-Wortham

 

 

 

 

1st Anzac Battalion

LtCol Langley

1st Co

Capt Wright

 

2ic Maj Nobbs

2nd Co

Capt Mills

 

Adjt

3rd Co

Capt Hogue

 

 

4th Co

Lt Love

 

 

 

 

2nd British Battalion

LtCol Bassatt

7th British Co

Capt Deas

 

2ic Capt Tod

8th British Co

Lt Inchbald WIA

 

Adjt Capt Tredinnick

9th British Co

Lt Brothers

 

 

10th British Co

Capt Patterson

 

 

 

 

4th Anzac Battalion

LtCol Mills

13th Co

Lt Smith

 

2ic Maj Hemphill (NZ)

16th NZ Co

Capt Yerex

 

Adjt Lt Treweek (NZ)

17th Co

Capt Hampton

 

 

18th Co

Capt Howard

 

 

 

 

HKSB

Maj Moore

 

 

26 MG Sqn

Maj Millar

 

 

Camel FAmb

LtCol Mc Laren

 

 

 

2/3-5-18 Battle of Es Salt

ICC Bde 1Bn (1Co 2Co 3Co 4Co) 2Bn (7Co 8Co 9Co 10Co) 4Bn (13Co 16Co 17Co 18Co) 26 MG Sqn and ACFA

attack by the 8Co and 18Co to support fighting across the Jordan

13-5-18   ICC Bde moved to Khirbet Deiran arrived 16-5-18

16-5-18   ICC Bde arrived Ramlah

 

July 1918

Disbandment of all the Anzac formations of the ICC into the 14 LHR 15 LHR and 2 NZ MGS

If you need any closer details let me know

S.B

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

@stevenbecker

Mate,

Sorry for the late reply, I’ve just been quite busy. Yes this is all great, thank you very much. So did he miss Romani? What about Mughar Ridge? I know it probably would have been listed here, but just double checking.

Cheers,

Random

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Mate,

Yes

(2Co missed the big battles in Sinai during 1916 and early 1917)

The Company spent 1916 and early 1917 in the western desert chasing down the Senissi 

As for Maghar, that was a British and 4 LH Bde fight not the ICC.

At that time the 1st Camel Bn was back on the Canal recovering after the 2nd Gaza Battle (the Camel Bde fought at Bald Hill during that time)

The Company was used in a number of adventures out into Sinai, such as the trip to Akabar to meet TEL & his Arabs after they captured it.

The 1st Camel Bn arrived back with the Bde in March 1918, and the 3rd Camel Bn went back to the Canal

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Mate,

Thank you, this explains a lot about where they were. Do you know if they were involved in any major raids against the Senussi or minor raids or no raids at all. Information would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Random

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