Imperial Camel Corps 1917-18

[n cherry]

Becker,

Thanks for the help!

NC

Good luck with the book...do you have a publisher lined up?

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

I have been looking at giving the finished book to the Defence Printing which publish's a number of Military works via the Aussie Govt.

A mate at ADFA has seen some of the chapters and has encourged me to ask one of blokes who make that determination.

Only I am still working on it and don't want to do that untill the chapters are more firm and polished.

Cheers

S.B

[gnr.ktrha]

Hello,

Just a quick one. I have a signed photo of a Scots Guards Officer. It is signed Douglas Macindoe, who I am fairly sure is J. D Macindoe. I know he won a MC during the war and that he later served with the Camel Corps. Have you ever come across him before? Also, would you like a copy of the photo for your book? He is in one of his Scots Guards uniform. I can't post one at present, I have a new computor and can download my photo's from my camera onto it yet ! But will work it out one day!

Thank you once again for the information you have sent me before,

Stewart

[stevenbecker]

Stewart.

Thanks mate yes I would when ever your can do it would be fine.

I have the following on him;

MacIndoe JD Capt to Staff Capt ICC Bde HQ 12-16 to 1-17 to GSO 3 unknown HQ Ex Scots Guards

He was the first staff Capt with the new Camel Bde formed on the 13th Dec 1916 and left the Bde on the 14th Jan 1917 to take up a General Staff officer grade 3 position at some HQ.

He served the Camel Bde at Magdhaba and Rafa but was award no decorations with the ICC. He is shown as coming from the Scots Guards but not what he did before joining the ICC or after.

Cheers

S.B

[gnr.ktrha]

Cheers SB,

When I figure out this computor, I will send a copy to you.

Regards,

Stewart

[Guest pursy]

Steve,

I am new to the forum I am posting this picture of my Grandad, Edward Purslow and according to his demob papers he was in both the Shropshire Yeomanry and the 10th Shropshire and Cheshire Yeomanry and he was demobilized from the I.C.C. Regimental #50559, any additional info would be appreciated.

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

I show Edward in the 6th Company 2nd Camel Bn ICC.

Purslow Edward 50559 Pte 6Co Ex Shropshire Yeo (2109) and Hussars

The 6th Co was formed around 25th May 1916 from units of the 4th Dismounted Yeomanry Bde (including the Shropshire Yeomanry).

The 6th Company fought in the Battles of Romani, Magdhaba, Rafa and at the 1st and 2nd Gaza battles.

In Sept 1917 the 6th Company was replaced in the Camel Bde by the 10th Company, and sent to Sollum in Western Egypt and there it remained for the rest of the war conducting patrols into the western desert against the Senussi tribesman.

If you need more let me know. thanks for the great photo its and very nice shot of him.

Other Shropshire men are;

Andrews Richard 50514 Pte ICC? Ex Shropshire Yeo (1766) and Hussars

Aston Edward 50516 Pte ICC? Ex Shropshire Yeo (1626) and Hussars

Barker Sidney Arthur J. 50518 Pte 6Co Ex Shropshire Yeo (1326) and Hussars

Bartlett Albert E. 50519 Pte ICC? Ex Shropshire Yeo (1691) and Hussars

Bostock William Arthur 50522 Pte ICC? Ex Shropshire Yeo (3167) and Hussars

Bowen William L. 50521 Pte ICC? Ex Shropshire Yeo (2506) and Hussars

Davies Charles S. 50527 Pte ICC Ex Shropshire Yeo (1718) and (230156) to Royal Engineers (WR/193340)

Davies William Thomas Lt 10Co MC Ex Sgt Shropshire Yeo (1374) and Lt West Surrey Regt to Kings Shropshire Light Infantry

Devan Joseph 50520 Pte ICC? Ex Shropshire Yeo (1736) and Hussars

Edwards Owen 50532 Pte ICC? Ex Shropshire Yeo (2566) and Hussars

Evans John Edward 50512 Sgt ICC Ex Shropshire Yeo (1346) and Hussars buried Hadra War Cemetery Egypt died 16-11-18

Griffiths George 50537 Pte ICC? Ex Shropshire Yeo (1785) and Hussars

Hodges Jack G. 50509 Sgt ICC Ex Shropshire Yeo (1743) and Hussars

Hodnett Thomas Gordon 50538 Pte ICC Ex Shropshire Yeo (1624) and Hussars (Hognett)

Holley Samuel L. 50539 Pte ICC? Ex Shropshire Yeo (1756) and Hussars

Johnstone James 51124 Pte ICC? Ex Shropshire Yeo (1214) and Hussars

Lewis William J 51355 Pte ICC Ex Shropshire Yeo (1968) and Hussars

Maddox Thomas 50546 Pte ICC Ex Shropshire Yeo (1827) and Hussars

Maund Robert 50547 Pte ICC? Ex Shropshire Yeo (1636) and Hussars

McDonald Richard 50545 Pte ICC Ex Shropshire Yeo (115) and Hussars

Morgan Tom L 50544 Pte ICC Ex Shropshire Yeo (2482) and Hussars

Munslow John 50548 Pte ICC Ex Shropshire Yeo (1707) and Hussars

Oliver Joseph 50555 Pte 6Co? Ex Shropshire Yeo (1237) and Hussars buried Weston Rhyn (St Johns) Churchyard UK DoD 2-3-19

Pettit Hubert Ronald Capt OC 6Co 8-16 to -17 to T/Maj MC Ex 2/Lt 10Bn Shropshire Light Inf and Shropshire Yeo WIA 27-3-18 L/leg WIA 27-3-18

Pitchford Charles E 50557 Pte ICC Ex Shropshire Yeo (1838) and Hussars

Prewett Albert Edward 1912 Pte 6Co Ex 1/1 Shropshire Yeo buried Kantara War Cemetery Egypt KIA 6-8-16

Price Thomas 50558 Pte ICC Ex Shropshire Yeo (1228) and Hussars

Purslow Edward 50559 Pte 6Co Ex Shropshire Yeo (2109) and Hussars

Ralphs Ernest 50562 Pte ICC Ex Shropshire Yeo (1820) and Hussars

Taylor Harry S 50508 Wo2 CSM ICC Ex Shropshire Yeo (1586) and Hussars rtn SSM Shropshire Yeo (386197)

Thompson Henry C 50566 Pte ICC Ex Shropshire Yeo (1989) and Hussars

Thompson John H 51403 Pte ICC Ex Shropshire Yeo (1690) and Hussars

Trickett Samuel E 50565 Pte ICC Ex Shropshire Yeo (1566) and Hussars

Cheers

S.B

[kenmorrison]

Help please, I'm researching WILLIAM McADAM GORDON.

Local source say that he transferred from 1/1st Ayrshire Yeomanry to the Machine Gun Corps of the Imperial Camel Corps. CWGC shows him as Private (50447) 256th Company, MGC (Infantry) He was killed near Jaffa, 27 November 1917, and is buried in Ramleh War Cemetery.

Problem is I cannot find a record of a 256th Company, MGC. The list at 1914-1918.net (The long, long Trail) stops at 255 and restarts at 261.

Can anyone confirm Gordon's link to the ICC?

Ken

[stevenbecker]

Ken,

I have posted to your question, hope you get it.

Bill Gordon was in the 26th MG Sqn (also known as 256 MG Company)

He was KIA at the battle at Bald Hll fought between 27 Nov to 5th Dec 1917.

Cheers

S.B

[kenmorrison]

Steve - many thanks

Ken

[PPCLI]

Hi Steve,

William Gordon is local to me and Ken. Thank you for the information on the 26th MG Sqn - I hadn't been able to make sense of 256 MG Coy. because according to the National Archives it was part of the 15th Indian Division and only ever operated in Mesopotamia. I hadn't been able to find an online source for the ICC and its related MG squadrons.

For your records, an article in the local newspaper, dated 4th January 1918, states:

Private Wm. McAdam Gordon, Machine Gun Coy., Imperial Camrl Corps, second son of Mr William Gordon, Castlehill, Gelston, was killed in action in Palestine on 27th November. Deceased joined the Ayrshire Yeomanry in November, 1914.He was 22 years of age, and had been with the Egyptian Expeditionary Force two years. He was dairyman at Kempleton, Twynholm, before enlisting.

Cheers,

Stuart

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

I posted this to ken but its part of a chartper of my book and deals with (in the last paragraph) the actions around his death.

At 6.15 am on the 27 November a intense concentrated barrage of Turkish artillery fell on Mulebbis, Bald Hill and on the 54th Division in the area of Wihelmia, the combined 4.2’s and 5.9’s of the 20th and 16th Turkish Artillery Regiments and the 73rd Heavy Artillery Battalion forced the troops to their trenches allowing a large force of around four thousand Turks to overrun and capture the town of Mulebbis from a thin skirmish line of the 6th Light Horse Regiment, who retired in front of them inflicting casualties on the Turks as they left an Almond orchard around the village. The Turkish artillery could be seen firing from the plain below while the movement of the Turks could be followed, still without any attached guns the Camel Brigade could do little to break them up. By 8.30 am a strong force of about 400 men from the 61st Turkish Infantry Regiment using this orchard as a forming up point attacked the exposed left flank of the 15th company on Bald Hill around Posts 5 and 6, the New Zealanders held their posts with difficulty as the Turks worked their way along both flanks, as an intense cross fire and bomb fight developed however in the end the section posts 5 and 6 were overrun or in the words of one kiwi “were compelled to retire” some time before 9 am.

At Post 5 during this fight Lieutenant Clifford Gorringe 15th Company soon found he was driven out by this sudden attack, then at once counterattacked with the survivors, and directed fire on the exposed Turks and inspired his men with his bravery as this contest lasted for some time till he was wounded, shot in the head. The fighting was fierce around these exposed posts and Sergeant William Trott was shot in the thigh and Private Tom Boyd was shot in the back, while others were hit by shell fire of whom Sergeant George Parsons was hit by a splinter in the arm and Private Victor Wright in the leg, while Private Charles McArthur was seriously wounded and died later in the day. The garrison was slowly reduced by casualties then fearing encirclement the company was forced to give ground. Mean while at another post Sergeant Leslie Purves soon found him self cut off by both shell and machine gun fire and carried the seriously wounded Lieutenant Sam Gooding to the rear when the company was ordered to retire. This retirement happen abruptly and the company abandoned much equipment which could not be recovered as the men quickly moved to the reserve positions around Lone Tree Hill carrying their wounded and fighting as they moved.

The sudden withdrawal by the 15th company put the entire Brigade defences in danger as the Turks were energetic to take advantage of the collapse around Bald Hill and the abandonment by the 15th company, which quickly exposed the 16th company, who now had to fight the Turks attacking on their rear and flanks, no request for reinforcement or to retire was sent by Major John Davis to Lieutenant Colonel Lee and their collapse happen within half an hour of the first assault.

With the left flank of the 16th Company now exposed they continued to struggle during which Sergeant James Adams of 16th company was prominent in the action holding post 4 against heavy odds and suffering 50% casualties. Among the casualties was Private Ash Giles, who was shot in the arm and leg, and Corporal Percy Coxhead shot in the arm, still they continued to fight as the long morning dragged on.

Around midday Lieutenant Colonel Lee became aware of the serious trouble with his command and realized that the 16th company was about to be surrounded and captured, regardless of holding on all morning, and now ordered posts 2, 3 and 4 held by the 16th company and a number of survivors of the 15th company to be abandoned before they were cut off. Despite the valiant defence by the New Zealanders its withdrawal resulted in a running fight in trenches and along a cactus hedge as the troops struggled to retire to the 18th Company positions in rear of Bald Hill near Lone Tree Hill.

On arrival Trooper Robert Maxwell of the 16th company found his mate missing during the withdrawal and returned the 500 yards threw the Turkish positions found his mate and rescued him under the eyes of the Turkish troops and regaining the 18th company trenches to the cheers of his comrades.

Part of the reason for the disaster that day was due to the lack of any artillery attached to the Camel Brigade, this had tragic consequences as the companies had been unable to break up the exposed Turkish concentrations before they reached our lines and when they reached our posts the overused New Zealand companies had little to stop the heavy flanking attacks on their exposed positions. Another reason for the collapse were the use of these new Storm Troops and tactics used by the Turks, who outflanked the posts and showered them with hand grenades while the defenders were kept to their posts by machine gun and artillery fire, this was assisted by five Taubes which were constantly over head observing for their guns which pounded our trenches continuously.

By 12.30 pm all posts had been abandoned, other then one section of the 17th company which remained in post 1, casualties thought were not heavy with one man killed and two officers and 27 men wounded during in the action.

As the exhausted troops reorganized, the Turks quickly occupied the vacant posts and turned Bald Hill into a fortress contending themselves with this valuable position instead of advancing towards Jaffa to complete their victory.

At Corps headquarters the loss of Bald Hill caused considerable alarm and much finger pointing at the Camel Brigade and forced General Chaytor to order its immediate recapture, this was in part due to the problems on the right flank with the 1/4th Northamptonshire Battalion at Wilhelma and Yehudiyeh who were under heavy pressure from the 48th and 125th Turkish regiments (16th Division) which due to the withdrawal of the Camel Brigade on their left, were in danger of being overrun. General Smith was insistent that as a matter of honour an attack is put in before dark by Lieutenant Colonel Lee and the 4th Battalion was ordered to recover the ground abandoned during the day.

Lieutenant Colonel Lee quickly began to organize this counterattack, to carry out his plan he had only the well-used 16th company, still they were familiar with the objective and was more then willing to regain their former posts, also the attacking force would have two sections each from the 17th and 18th company and a section from the newly arrived 7th company to carry out the attack while the remainder of the battalion was needed to occupy the defences. The 2nd Battalion had been released from the Anzac Mounted Division reserve at 10 am and ordered to move from Selmeh to the Camel Brigade’s exposed right flank to cover the area south from Yafa Hill and Wilhelma this allowed the 4th Battalion to concentrate for their counterattack. The 10th company relieved the single section of the 17th company at post 1 on Point 249 at 3 pm while the 7th company moved to support the 4th Battalion as the remainder of the 2nd Battalion dug support and reserve lines, the brigade machine gun squadron was committed to support the battalion, and Private William Gordon was killed by shell fire. By 7.30 pm patrols had reported the Turkish positions around the objectives and the attack went in at 8 pm in darkness.

Cheers

S.B

[stevenbecker]

Mates,

I should have added that the 26th MG Sqn was raised in early 1917 from the Scottich Horse under Maj Gordon Logan

Millar.

Althought I show a small number from the Lanack and Aryshire Yeomanrys.

The exact date escapes me as this MG Sqn gets no mention as being trained at the Camel Bde School at Abbassia.

I have found about 156 men from this Sqn so many remain unrecorded (by me that is).

The first battle by this Sqn was 1st Gaza in March 1917 then 2nd Gaza in April and the fighting around Beersheba in Nov 1917 and Bald Hill in Nob/Dec.

The Sqn fought at Amman in March 1918 and Musallabeh in April 1918.

When the Camel Bde was disbaned in June/July 1918 this MG Sqn was either disbanded or joined some other unit? (I don't know what happened here).

Cheers

S.B

[PPCLI]

Hi Steve,

Sorry for taking so long to reply with my thanks for your very helpful posts.

I have found about 156 men from this Sqn so many remain unrecorded (by me that is).

I have found another local man who may be on your list:

Name: PEARSON, JOHN HENRY

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Machine Gun Corps (Cavalry)

Age: 23

Date of Death: 27/03/1918

Service No: 130945

Additional information: Son of James Henry and Janet Pearson, of 7, Maxwell St., Maxwelltown, Dumfriesshire.

Grave/Memorial Reference: F. 12.

Cemetery: DAMASCUS COMMONWEALTH WAR CEMETERY

His CWGC entry doesn't give a specific unit, but his details in a local RoH state 'Enlisted September, 1914, Lanarkshire Yeomanry. Transferred to Machine Gun Imperial Camel Corps. Served on Eastern Front (Dardanelles, Egypt). Killed in Palestine 27th March, 1918.' Are you able to assign a specific unit to Private Pearson?

Cheers,

Stuart

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

Thanks yes I have John Pearson

The other Lanark man are;

Adamson Arthur 50304 Pte ICC Ex Lanark Yeo (1246) and Hussars (276978) to Sherwood Rangers

Alexander James 295416 Pte 7Co Ex 12Bn Royal Scots Fusiliers (295416) and Lanark Yeo (2410) buried Gaza War Cemetery KIA 21-4-17

Bell-Irving John J Capt OC 7Co 11-17 to ? -18 MID Ex Lanark Yeo

Boyd David 50305 Pte 7Co Ex Lanark Yeo (1282) and Hussars (sandy)

Boyes William 50308 Pte ICC? Ex Lanark Yeo (1101) and Hussars

Brown Alexander K. 50316 Pte ICC? Ex Lanark Yeo (820) and Hussars

Brown Robert 50310 Pte ICC? Ex Lanark Yeo (1099) and Hussars

Brown Thomas 51375 Sgt 7Co to CSM Ex Lanark Yeo (516) and Hussars (295512) WIA 27-3-18

Copeland William 50318 Pte ICC? Ex Lanark Yeo (1110) and Hussars

Court William G. 50326 Pte ICC? Ex Lanark Yeo (1207) and Hussars

Craig Allan Hamilton 812 Pte 7Co Ex Lanark Yeo (812) NKG listed on the Jerusalem War Memorial KIA 9-1-17

Crichton George 50303 L/Cpl 7Co to A/Sgt DCM Ex Lanark Yeo (1187) and (309648) to Royal Scots Fusiliers (295866)

Dick John S. 50317 Pte ICC? Ex Lanark Yeo (590) and Hussars

Dickson Charles W. 51112 Pte ICC? Ex Lanark Yeo (2236) and Hussars

Dobbie Thomas 507 Pte 7Co Ex 1/1 Lanark Yeo buried Kantara War Cemetery Egypt DoW 20-1-17

Doyle John 50322 Pte ICC? Ex Lanark Yeo (1285) and Hussars

Forsyth Robert 50319 L/Cpl 7Co MM Ex Lanark Yeo (2330) and Hussars

Fraser William 50307 Pte ICC? Ex Lanark Yeo (2299) and Hussars

Gordon Robert 50311 Pte ICC? Ex Lanark Yeo (2336) and Hussars

Greig Francis R. 50324 Pte ICC? Ex Lanark Yeo (954) and Hussars

Halliday James 50372 Pte ICC Ex Lanark Yeo (1147) and Hussars

Hamilton George M. 50329 Pte ICC (7Co) Ex Lanark Yeo (617) and Hussars

Kirkpatrick George 50306 Pte 7Co Ex Lanark Yeo (1239) and Hussars

Leadbetter James G Capt 26 MG Sqn MC Ex Lanark Yeo

Lees John 50380 Pte 7Co Ex Lanark Yeo (1179) to Royal Scots Fusiliers (295756) later Royal Engineers (101015)

Miller David 50315 Pte 7Co Ex Lanark Yeo (1213) and Hussars or 12Bn Royal Scots Fusiliers gsw head WIA 19-4-17

Monie William 50312 Pte ICC Ex Lanark Yeo (1133) and Hussars

Pearson John Henry 130945 Pte 26 MG Sqn Ex Lanark Yeo (2245) and MGC buried Damascus War Cemetery Syria KIA 27-3-18

Rippingale James 50320 Pte ICC Ex Lanark Yeo (994) and Hussars

Robinson Robert 50314 Pte 7Co + 2Bn HQ DCM Ex Lanark Yeo (1274) and Hussars

Ronnie James 50333 Pte ICC (7Co) Ex Lanark Yeo (537) and Hussars AKA Rennie

Scott Andrew 50232 Pte ICC Ex Lanark Yeo (1198) and Hussars

Taylor Thomas 51386 Pte ICC Ex Lanark Yeo (1169) and Hussars

Taylor William McA 50323 Pte ICC Ex Lanark Yeo (1027) and Hussars

Turner John 51125 Pte ICC Ex Lanark Yeo (1311) and Hussars

Wilson James 1167 A/Sgt 7Co Ex Lanark Yeo NKG listed on the Jerusalem War Memorial KIA 9-1-17

Wilson John A. 50327 Pte ICC Ex Lanark Yeo (1221) and Hussars

Wrightman John 50332 Pte ICC (7Co) Ex Lanark Yeo (1275) and Hussars

Cheers

S.B

[kenmorrison]

Stew,

Mate the Camel Corps or the Imperial Camel Brigade was formed around Dec 1916 and took part in all maior operations and battles untill the Brigade was disbanded in Jun 1918.

But before that date (during 1916) the Camel Companies had operated as single units or in small groups and operated in the Western desert against the Sennssi and in the Sinai. Fought at Sollum and Romani and the advane to ElArish and Magdhaba.

S.B

Would this explain the CWGC entry for

WILLIAM SMITH Private (657) 1/3rd Scottish Horse.

Date of Death 17 September 1916?

Local sources say he served at Gallipoli, and, in Egypt, transferred to MG section of ICC. One source has him missing since 17/9/1916 another has him killed in Sinai Desert

I did find one reference to 1st Battalion ICC in action at Bir el Mazar 16/17 September but was confused by other info saying ICC not formed until Decemeber.

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

Yes sorry about that, while the Camel Bde was formed in Dec 1916, the Camel companies formed between Feb 1916 to Nov 1916 (eighteen companies in total) other formations (MG Co/Sqn, vet and ASC sections) formed during the year and later up till June 1917 when the Camel Field Ambulance joined the Camel Bde.

As to Bill Smith, I have no details on him, but either was the MG Co/Sqn formed or in use at that time.

Three British Camel Companies (and one aussie Company) formed part of "Smith's Column" under Bde Gen LC Smith VC and were used during the Romani battles (in Aug 1916) on the southern front with part of the 11 LHR and Yeomanry Regt.

This group of Camel Companies was titled "the Camel Bn" for operations under The Barron De Rutzen who was killed later that month. (Before that date, Aug 1916, camel companies operated singlely or in paires but in Dec 1916 they were formed into a Bde with at first, three Bn's and later a forth Bn).

Durging Sept 1916 I record two officers lost

Mason-MacFarlane Carlyon William Capt OC 8Co 8-16 to 9-16 Ex 7th Hussars buried Cairo War Cemetery KIA 5-9-16

Ryan Warwick John Horwood 2/Lt 8Co Ex 2/Lt Dorset Yeo buried Cairo War Cemetery KIA 5-9-16

These men died during operations against the Senussi tribe in the Western dsert and not in the Sinai.

The fighting at Mazar took place on the 16/17 Sept 1916 but the Camel Bn under Capt Langley took little part arriving late.

I show only two men by the name of Smith with the Scottich Horse and ICC they are.

Smith Bertram 50229 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5896) and Hussars to Royal Highlanders (316190) Prom 2/Lt

Smith Herbert Frederick 72577 Sgt 26 MG Sqn? Ex Scottish Horse (441) and MGC prom 2/Lt Labour Corps

While I record around 216 men from the Scottich Horse pasted threw the ICC.

Sorry it dosn't mean much in relation to your question, but I could locate no soldier by the name of William Smith 657 in the medal index Cards on the NA data base can you confirm is Regt number?

Smith, William M

Corps: Scottish Horse

Regiment No: 470

Rank: Staff Quarter Master Serjeant...

1914-1920 WO 372/18

Medal card of Smith, William G

Corps: Scottish Horse

Regiment No: 4955

Rank: Private...

1914-1920 WO 372/18

Medal card of Smith, William

Corps: Royal Engineers

Regiment No: 125987

Rank: Sapper...

1914-1920 WO 372/18

Medal card of Smith, William

Corps: Scottish Horse

Regiment No: 557

Rank: Private

1914-1920 WO 372/18

Medal card of Smith, William

Corps: Scottish Horse

Regiment No: 5804

Rank: Private...

1914-1920 WO 372/18

Medal card of Smith, William

Corps: Scottish Horse

Regiment No: 5313

Rank: Acting Lance Corporal...

1914-1920 WO 372/18

Medal card of Smith, William S

Corps: Royal Engineers

Regiment No: WR/42710

I take it you mean William Smith 557

I show SMITH, WILLIAM

Initials: W

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Scottish Horse

Unit Text: 1st/3rd

Age: 29

Date of Death: 17/09/1916

Service No: 657

Additional information: Son of William and Agnes Smith, of Culdoch, Kirkcudbright.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: A. 70.

Cemetery: KANTARA WAR MEMORIAL CEMETERY

Its possible he wasn't KIA or Dow's but died of illness while training as a MG Gunner with the Camel MG Company/Sqn in Egypt.

Sorry its not much

S.B

[kenmorrison]

Steve - thank you so much about the background to the formation of the ICC.

From what you had written before i suspected it had happened over a long period - so that while my man was not officially a member when he died he probably wrote home that he was????

As for his service number, CWGC and the Scottish National War Memorial have him as 657 but his MIC at NA is indexed as 557.

As for cause of death, individual local sources have 1. KIA 2. Missing 3. Died on active service I need to dig further.

Thanks again

Ken

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

No worries, Iam inclined to think he was a member of the newly formed 26th Camel MG Sqn under training in Egypt in Sept 1916.

He may have died throught Illness or an accident while training there.

Then again of the three British Camel Companies with the Camel Bn at Mazar (5th, 6th and 7th Companies) I show a number of Scottich Horse soldiers with the 7th Company, could he had been lost with that company?

I record these men;

Archibald James 2/Lt 7Co MC DCM Ex Sgt 1/3 Scottish Horse (118) and Hussars WIA 29-11-17

Austen Robert M. 50256 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (1206) and Royal Highlanders (316047) to Royal Engineers (411875)

Beer Donald G. 50231 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (4960) and Hussars

Blackett Robert 50222 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (2399) and Hussars

Blyth David 50202 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (4629) to Royal Highlanders (316129) WIA 27-3-18

Blyth Francis 50245 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (1118) and Hussars

Braithwaite Jonathan 51241 A/L/Cpl 7Co Ex Scottish Horse RAMC (283) and Hussars WIA 27-3-18

Bryson James 50248 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (4065) and Hussars

Buchanan Hugh 50213 L/Cpl 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (3468) and Hussars WIA 8-8-18

Cooke Peter F 50191 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5771) and Hussars

Coombe Robert C 50215 Sgt 7Co to 6Co DCM att 14 LHR Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (L3/5356) and Royal Highlanders

Cottnam James 50237 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5754) and Hussars to Royal Highlanders (316171)

Crighton William 50251 Pte 7Co Ex 1/3rd Scottish Horse Yeo (6804) and Hussars WIA 29-3-18

Curran John 50249 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (6697) and Hussars WIA 28-3-18

Deas Edwin Hogg Capt OC 7Co MC Ex 2/Lt 1/1 Scottish Horse Yeo

Dick William R. 50206 Pte 7Co killed at Bir el Aweidia Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5139) and Hussars WIA 8-8-16

Dinnie James 50192 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5573) and Hussars

Douglas James 50241 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (1103) and Hussars

Dunsire Magnus W 50207 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (4616) and Hussars

Edgar William 50208 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (4717) and Hussars

Forrest Alexander 50209 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (6268) and Hussars

Gardener Alexander 50253 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (723) and Hussars

Gilchrist Dave 50252 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (1415) and Hussars WIA 28-3-18

Green Maxwell L. 50228 Pte 7Co Ex 1/2 Scottish Horse Yeo (4051) to Royal Highlanders (316101) WIA 28-3-18

Innes George 50219 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (4062) and Hussars to Dragoons to Royal Highlanders (316104) KIA 29-3-18

Keith Wilson 50217 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5459) and Hussars

Kerr John 50240 Cpl 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (876) and Hussars WIA 27-3-18

Kidd Peter 50199 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse (3035) and Royal Highlanders (316070) and Hussars

King Daniel 50254 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse (195) and Hussars (50254)

MacDonald John 50246 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5056) and Hussars

MacGregor Walter WA. 3919 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse (3919) and Royal Highlanders (316093) shot by arabs WIA 18-1-17

Macpherson William 50238 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5811) and Hussars to Black Watch (316177)

McDonald James 50233 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (4011) and Hussars to Royal Highlanders (316098)

McDonald William 50257 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse (173) and Hussars

McKenzie Alexander 50194 Pte 7Co to ECTC Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5700) and Hussars to Royal Engineers (411877) to Royal Highlanders (316089)

McLaren Peter L 50196 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (4503) and Hussars

Miles Robert 50232 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (4795) and Hussars to Royal Highlanders (316184)

Millar William 50243 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (295) and Hussars

Neillands Robert 50189 L/Cpl 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (3932) to Dragoons (316093) to Royal Highlanders (316095) WIA 27-3-18 KIA 8-8-18

O'Hanlon Gerald D 50220 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5747) and Hussars

Oliphant John 50201 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (4625) and Hussars

Reid Robert 50190 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (4362) and Hussars

Reid Robert 50234 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5775) and Hussars to Royal Highlanders (316174)

Ritchie Douglas 50223 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5516) and Hussars WIA 29-3-18

Robertson Francis 50204 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (4431) and Hussars

Rose Alexander C 50242 Pte 7Co to Sgt Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (1462) and Hussars to Royal Highlanders (316053) WIA 27-3-18

Russell John 50214 A/Sgt 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (2055) and Hussars to Dragoons to to Royal Highlanders (316058) buried Damascus War Cemetery Syria KIA 29-3-18

Russell John F 50258 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse (180) and Hussars to Royal Highlanders (316008) WIA 27-3-18

Shand Alexander 50235 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5058) and Hussars to Royal Highlanders (316142)

Sim James AB 50216 Pte 7Co to Sgt Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5678) and Hussars to Royal Engineers (614797)

Sinclair William 50210 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5270) and Hussars

Smith Bertram 50229 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5896) and Hussars to Royal Highlanders (316190) Prom 2/Lt

Stewart Alexander 50212 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (3021) and Hussars

Stewart John 50239 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5732) and Hussars

Strong James 50195 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (3020) and Hussars

Syme John 50224 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5592) and Hussars

Tannock Thomas 50188 A/Sgt 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (4191) and Hussars WIA 27-3-18

Tassie Hugh 50230 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5712) and Hussars to Royal Highlanders (316167) to Sherwood Rangers (276976)

Taylor George 50221 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (4935) and Hussars

Watson Walter 50226 Pte 7Co to BHQ Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (5594) and Hussars WIA 27-3-18

Wilkie William 50203 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (3508) and Hussars to Sgt Scottish Horse Scouts (386139) WIA 27-3-18

Wilson David M. 130974 Pte 26 MG Sqn? (7Co) Ex Scottish Horse (4363) and MGC

Winters James J 50198 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (4741) and Hussars

Young Thomas F 50247 Pte 7Co Ex Scottish Horse Yeo (1477) and Hussars

I look forward to what ever you may turn up.

Cheers

S.B

[Ed Kermode]

Hi Steve,

I scanned through this post with interest as my great-uncle James Kermode (Service No. 948) from South Australia was in the Australian LIght Horse, then the 14th Camel Corps, then the 3rd Camel Brigade, I believe.

He was in charge of a Lewis Gun team for quite a while and saw heavy fighting, I guess, as he won an MM, a DCM, and was mentioned in despatches twice.

I notice you mention Lewis Gunners a couple of times in this post. I wonder if James K was involved in these actions and whether there is any way of finding this out?

The citations for these medals (as per an email to me from a researcher) read as follows -

'Military Medal - AWM 28

"At GAZA on April 19th 1917. As No. 1 of a Lewis Gun Team displayed conspicuous gallantry in covering a retirement of two companies of Camel Corps by his gallantry and skilful use of his gun when isolated and under heavy shell fire. He has shown similar personal gallantry on previuos occasions".

DCM - Not listed in AWM 28 but appeared in two publications held by the AWM

"For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. in command of a Lewis gun team. He showed great judgment and courage, when isolated and under heavy shell fire, in covering the withdrawal of two companies". '

Q1 - have you come across this man in your research "travels"?

Q2 - do you know or can you give an educated guess re which actions, engagements, skirmishes, battles, etc etc the Camel Corps and (especially) the Camel Battalion/Brigade (with James as Lewis gunner, I presume) were involved in?

Q3 - given the similarity of the citations, is it possible that both the MM and the DCM were given for the same bit of fighting? ie that there was a clerical error?

Q4 - Or can you definitely rule that out, due to details you know as per Q2?

Q5 - Do you know who the Commanding Officer was who made the recommendation for the MM? And who for the DCM?

Q6 - Which award is the more meritorious, the MM or the DCM? Or is that a question that is irrelevant or "poor form"? I only ask this because my grandfather Thomas Kermode (James's brother) was awarded a DCM during the Boer War.

Also, of course, I am wondering how you have got on with the publishing of your book, what it's name etc details are, how much it costs, what topics it covers, etc etc.

By the way, you sound Aussie. Are you?

Hoping this post/enquiry is not considered impertinent or whatever.

Ed Kermode

South Australia

[PPCLI]

Steve and Ken,

We have had a previous thread on the possible fate of William Smith, see LINK

Cheers,

Stuart

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

Thanks for that I remember the case now, I must have lost these details when my DB went down and I had to rebuild it from and old back up.

The different dates come from the dates the bodies were found rather then when they died.

Cheers

S.B

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

As the James Kermode I record this;

KERMODE James 948 Pte Farmer age 26 Nortons Summit SA Enl Emb 5R/3 LHR. ToS B Sqn 29-9-15 Gallipoli. Western Frontier Force 12-15 to 1 LHTR 4-4-16 att Anzac Police 17-4-16 rtn 1 LHTR 6-6-16 to 3Bn 14Co 1-7-16 Awarded MM MID at 2nd Gaza "As no 1 moved his lewis gun into a postion to cover the withdrawal of two companies" to L/Cpl 9-7-17 to MG school 9-17 Awarded DCM 6-11-17 at Khuwailfe "For commanding his MG team in a postion to cover the withdrawal of two companies" to Cpl 11-11-17 to Sgt 15 LHR 1-7-18 Recom MID N/R RTA 2-8-19

This is part of an article I wrote on the 3rd Anzac Bn at 2nd Gaza and covers your relation gaining the MM;

"The 3rd Anzac Battalion’s attack

While the 1st Battalion was advancing on Tank redoubt the 3rd Anzac Battalion under Lieutenant Colonel Newell De Lancey-Forth was to attack and occupy the Khirbet Sihan village near the redoubts (known as Jack and Jill redoubts) and to prevent the movement of enemy troops across his front from Beersheba or from Huj to Gaza. He organize the battalion with the 11th Company under Captain Randolph Creswell on the left and the 12th company under Captain Arthur Norris to the right, the 14th company under Captain James Tolmer in support and the 15th NZ company under Captain Roy Priest was held in reserve, a section of the Brigade machine gun squadron with their heavy Vickers Machine guns were placed under command to engage targets at distance once the position was taken, in all the 3rd Battalion numbered around 450 all ranks.

The terrain on which the battle was fought consisted of the Khirbet Sihan redoubts which lay behind the Gaza-Beersheba road and to the right of the Wadi Khirbet Sihan on two small hills at a height of 400 meters, behind these hills was the small Arab village of Khirbet Sihan which housed the garrison Headquarters of the 165th Turkish Infantry Regiment of the 53rd Turkish Division. The defences of Jack and Jill hills were two small redoubts with defences stretching west into the Wadi Sihan and east to overlook the next redoubt on Atawine ridge. The terrain was open but for the main Wadi and a number of washouts which all flowed into the Wadi Sihan, a number of barley fields cut this other wise barren land scape run in peace time by the villagers from Khirbet Sihan, the strength of the garrison was unknown but should have numbered not more then 200 men of a reinforced Company from a Battalion of the 165th Turkish Infantry Regiment.

The 3rd Anzac Battalion formed up at 7 am to the east of the Sheikh Abbas ridge, and the advance began promptly at 7.30 am, as the troops began to move towards the Gaza-Beersheba road the tank HMLS Nutty came into view as it passed behind the rear and right of the 1st Battalion trying to cross a small wadi, the Turks quickly saw this movement and showered both battalions with shell fire as the tank then started towards the front of the 1st Battalion and shortly disappeared in a cloud of dust belching exhaust smoke. About this time the Hong Kong and Singapore battery which had deployed to the rear of the 3rd Battalion was hit by a lucky shell that fell amongst the camels killing or wounding the crew to one of the guns including Gunner Vincent Sykes who was mortally wounded and scattering the remainder of the battery animals which put the battery out of action for some time.

Chook fowler 12th Light Horse Regiment mentions this incident in his book “Looking Backwards”, “That the Turks directed some of there 70 mm guns on to them, I saw two direct hits on the camels, and many pieces of camel and parts of the guns went high into the air”. “We never heard any shells that had been fired by that battery”.

Meanwhile the men advanced quickly across the open ground towards their objective, the companies had deployed on section fronts in three lines with Lewis guns interlaced amongst the sections and they moved in extended line formation under sporadic shell and rifle fire losing a number of men as they advanced, these included Private Ray Webb who was mortally wounded when hit on the head by a shrapnel Pellet. Amongst the wounded at this time were Captain Norris who was shot through the foot along with Privates Jack Condon and Edward Wright.

The 11th company was now being drawn towards the 1st Battalion and the stalled 4th company as the 12th company pushed on through a field of barley but the fire from the first redoubt became too heavy and soon forced the company to seek cover in the Wadi Sihan which was short of the Gaza-Beersheba road. Lieutenant Colonel Forth soon arrived with Battalion Headquarters and walked among the sheltering men inspiring them with his recklessness while others complained of him drawing the enemies’ fire. Here they exchanged fire with the Turks for some time while remaining pinned to the wadi walls till around 8.45 am when Lieutenant Colonel Forth ordered the men up and attack as he had perceived the 1st Battalion rush their objective.

The men came out of the wadi at the run with bayonets fixed as they quickly crossed the Gaza-Beersheba road under an intense crossfire from machine gun and rifle flushing out a number of Turks in spider holes in advance of the main position, despite this fire the cameleers gained the first Turkish redoubt which to their surprise was abandoned without the enemy offering any resistance and a number of prisoners were taken some wounded but most escaped to the second redoubt.

While the 12th company was advancing across Gaza-Beersheba road C Squadron of the 11th Light Horse Regiment who was on the battalions far right flank observed two machine guns nests in enfilade of them, Major Percy Bailey quickly ordered two troops under Lieutenant’s George Hoffman and Charles Clifford to rushed forward and capture these guns but soon joined the 12th company in the capture of the last redoubt.

With this unexpected bonus in the capture of this first entrenchment now allowed Lieutenant John (Jock) Davidson, who had taken command after Captain Norris had been wounded, to push forward his company then rush the next redoubt? At this time the two troops from C Squadron supported the attack on the right flank while this mixed force of light horsemen and cameleers advanced on the last redoubt under a tormenting fire. But fortunately the enemy in the 2nd redoubt were still too stunned and disorganized to put up only a token resistance as they once more broke and ran to the rear towards Khirbet Sihan village as our men reached the Turkish works overrunning the frightened garrison.

One of the men to win the DCM that day was Private John McGrath of the 11th Light Horse who rescued the crew of a Hotchkiss machine gun after they had been wounded he later was to join his brother in the 12th Company during in the war.

This victory now left us in command of an important position among the enemies’ defences and Lieutenant Davidson now had to reorganize his company while his Lewis guns teams fired at the retreating Turks and also took one of the enemies’ batteries under fire as it raced to get out of range.

It was said by higher command at the time that our men never reached this far but later in the war members of the Brigade and Battalion revisited the area and found the remains of men from the 3rd Battalion still around this position and this marked the extreme point reached by allied troops that day.

Meanwhile the Enemy had become alarmed at the loss of so vital a position and with its important location to Khirbet Sihan, but a concentrated response could not be quickly arranged as the local reserve had been used at the Tank redoubt and Jack and Jill redoubts would have to wait until the Divisional reserves arrived.

Shell fire increased as the men arranged their defences against an expected counterattack. It was during this fire that word came from the Headquarters of the 11th Light horse to withdraw the two Troops of C Squadron from the redoubts. Lieutenant Colonel Forth sent Lieutenant Davidson to Major Bailey to ask them to stay but with reluctance the two troops under Lieutenant’s Hoffman and Clifford had to depart leaving the reduced and battered 12th company to hold both redoubts alone. The 11th company at this time was still near the Wadi Sihan on the Gaza-Beersheba road holding off enemy flank attacks but the situation in front of the 4th Light Horse Brigade and the Imperial Mounted Division in its attack on the Atawine redoubt had turned against them as large bodies of the enemy were counterattacking their line and so C Squadron was desperately needed to assist and they retired some distance to the rear of the 3rd Camel Battalion to rejoin their parent formation.

At 2.30 pm large numbers of Turkish reinforcements had now arrived, this led to the 4th Light Horse Brigade being ordered to retire to a ridge 700 yards to their rear having already retired some 600 yards from the Atawine defences exposing the flank of the Camel Brigade.

This disclosed the position held by the 12th company which now became untenable as this vital position was not reinforced, and with the men now falling and the Lewis gun teams being knocked out one by one till only five men remained, among those killed were Sergeant Lindsay Field an original from the 3rd Light Horse Regiment, Privates Ernie Norton shot in the chest and Alex Gibson his mate killed near him. Among the many wounded were Privates Arthur Gwyther shot in the abdomen, Vince Hennessy hit in the leg, Bill McManus hit in the arm, Alf Kennett hit in the mouth and Levy Tompkins hit in the head.

As the afternoon dragged on Turkish troops of the 161st Regiment were seen advancing in a crescent formation trying to encircle the company when Lieutenant Davidson received orders to retire to the 11th company’s position near the Gaza-Beersheba road. This was accomplished with little trouble in spite of the large number of wounded within the company and as they retired down the hill fire came from three sides as they fought there way back to the wadi and safety.

All the while the 11th Company was still holding the area around the Wadi Sihan under the most trying of circumstances and increasing pressure from the enemy who was using the wadi to cut off our men on Jack and Jill hills, in the desperate fighting along the wadi Cpl Mick Mahoney and Private Mick Hogan (shot in the throat) along with Private Ken Mudge were killed and there were many wounded.

Around 3 pm General Hare had become aware of the trouble on his right flank and had ordered his Division and the Camel Brigade to hold fast and prepare for a counterattack that should the Imperial Mounted Division uncover this flank he would be ready to move troops to the threatened area and have the Camel Brigade in a defensive position to repel any attack. This change of fortune and his failure to break the enemy defences had convinced General Hare to stop the wasting attacks against the enemies’ strong fortifications and had stopped the attack by the 161st Brigade and ordered the withdrawal of the 3rd Battalion from its exposed position on Jack and Jill redoubts.

The 3rd Battalion Headquarters had remained in the wadi and now with both companies concentrated Lieutenant Colonel Forth encouraged the men to hold on but he was wounded shot in the shoulder along with the Regimental Sergeant Major George Hay, who was evacuated but later died from his wounds during the night, he was 45 years old and a veteran of Gallipoli, and original from the 18th Battalion AIF, he had been senior soldier in the 3rd Battalion since its formation in December.

By the late afternoon Lieutenant Colonel Forth discovered the 4th Light Horse Brigade was retiring again and with the destruction of the 1st Battalion now found himself alone in front of an aggressive enemy when the order by General Hare arrived to withdrawal to a defensive position on the Sheikh Abbas ridge. Lieutenant Colonel Forth then ordered all wounded gathered and commanded the evacuation back through the barley field to the edge of the Sheikh Abbas ridge where the 14th company occupied a defensive position with the section of the Brigade Machine gun squadron to the east of Pt 404. The rear guard fought during the evacuation as the Turks pressed our troops, however they continued to be the targets for Turkish artillery as they moved up Sheikh Abbas ridge Lance/Corporal James Kermode commanded a Lewis gun team with the 14th company and covered this retirement and when the two companies passed him he was subjected to the enemies shells and rifle fire but held on to till the men were safe then retired fighting. The soldiers of the 11th and 12th companies had been at first reluctant to abandon the ground won at such a cost and on arrival back to the 14th companies position were exhausted by their experience.

On arrival the 12th company on Sheikh Abbas ridge they were moved into reserve and the 15th NZ Company moved up to extended the firing line to the south-east thus refusing the line. The 14th company thicken the line with elements of the brigade machine gun squadron and waited for the expected counterattack. The 4th Light Horse Brigade had by this time retired well to the rear of Sheikh Abbas ridge and support from that flank had almost disappeared.

The Turks continued shell the cameleer’s line, and during this shelling Lieutenant Ben Chapman was killed observing for his battery of the Hong Kong and Singapore artillery.

There on Sheikh Abbas ridge the Camel Brigade waited however the enemy held back which allowed our troops to rest and reorganize and to clear some of the many wounded from the battlefield. The commanders of both Battalions requested artillery support late in the afternoon to break up enemy concentrations but none was available to the Camel Brigade. The troops were treated late in the day to a display of aerial combat as a German Turbe (Rumbler) of FA (Fliegerabteilung) 300 flown by Vzfw Kautzmann and a British Martinsyde of No 14 Squadron RFC fought it out in the sky above them, they all cheered as one of the planes fell to the earth only to discover that it was ours and the pilot Captain Francis Bevan had been killed.

Once it became dark at 7.45 pm the 3rd Battalion was ordered to retired further up the ridge and dig in with the 7th Essex around Pt 404. Turkish snipers became active in the dark and a number of men were hit including Captain Priest commanding the 15th NZ Company who was mortally wounded while visiting his posts. The 2nd Battalion replaced the 1st Battalion in the defences and soon their line was tested when the 5th and 9th companies were subjected to a heavy fusillade in the dark in which Lance/Corporal Henry Fisher was shot in the leg and Privates Dave Miller and Herbert Gowlett were shot in the head, Len Corke shot in the jaw and Tom Benson and George Holland shot in the body. At 9 pm the Brigade was ordered to retired to the rear of Sheikh Abbas ridge leaving the 161st Brigade to watch the enemy, the camels and handlers had been brought up behind the ridge earlier that day at 2 pm and once the men were withdrawn they married up and mounted moving silently down to Charring Cross arriving at midnight.

There was a strong sense of defeat amongst the men that night as they slowly rode back to Charring Cross in having survived the most harrowing experience of their lives, their fatigue and the loss of so many mates was a sober reminder to all of their own fallibility in this war.

One of the tragic consequences of the battle were the innumerable wounded on the battlefield they were the most difficult to remove as there was so many that the Camel Brigade medical services of the Scottish Horse Field Ambulance were completely swamped and had to draw on the 54th Division for help. They also had a problem with casualties as both the 53rd and 54th Casualty Clearing Stations were overflowing regardless men were sent to them of whom Private Laurie Taylor died of his wounds at the 53rd CCS that night. It was well after midnight before all wounded could be recovered and cleared to the rear but still many had to be left as unrecoverable. Chaplain Hubert Gordon and Padre Scott-Little of the Camel Corps were conspicuous among the wounded that night adding what comfort they could while providing help to the strained medical staff."

Yes while the two citations appear to read the same they were gained on two different dates for doing much the same thing. ABove article gives you the idea at 2nd Gaza, while at Khuwailfe, his Bn was trapped over two days in front of the Tel el Khuwailfe being part of a larger British attack, the British got lost and cut up while the 3rd Anzac Bn held the line and suffered many losses during those two days.

The MID (Mentioned in Despatches) then MM (Military Medal), then DCM (Distinguished Conduct Medal), then the VC.

The article will give you most of the other answers to your questions.

Cheers

S,B

[Ed Kermode]

Steve Becker you are a legend! Ed Kermode here. And I firstly want to apologise most sincerely for the delay in responding to your amazingly prompt and detailed/gut-wrenching reply to my queries about my great-uncle James Kermode and the battles he and his Camel Corps was involved in. I am really pleased to know that it was two separate occasions that he got his medals and not a clerical error (!!!). The reason for me not responding sooner is that my computer crashed completely in late February 2011 and I have taken months to recover from this catastrophe. I thought I had backed up all important stuff (and I think I had) but until recently my restore attempts had hit a brick wall until I finally twigged that at some stage I had changed the drive letter of my backup drive from D: to F: and the restore program kept saying it could not find the backup file(s). Anyway, Steve, I think I have AVG Internet Security going properly now and have worked out passwords etc that I needed for various things.

I am at present trying to write a book on the Boer War and WW1 experience of Thomas Kermode DCM, based on his letters home, but have of course lost months of time and a fair bit of momentum due to computer crash. However, I consider myself extremely fortunate in having recovered my database of about 4,000 records which are mostly of the many and varied subjects he covers in his letters, sentence by sentence almost. I think the titel will be "Not This Hell of Strife".

I feel humble and proud of the guts and fighting quality of the WW1 Aussie, including the three Kermode brothers who fought overseas (James, Thomas my grandfather, and Arthur Kermode). Thank you for the important work you are doing in keeping the memory of our 1914-1918 blokes alive. And once again Steve my apologies for not responding to your post sooner. Ed Kermode

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

Yes I know the problem, I lost a years worth of work when I found I was backing up the back up each month and not the current work when my computer crushed some time ago.

I now have a seperate hard drive that I back up each week or less. but I am yet to use it so hope its working.

Cheers

S.B