Football match & The Christmas Truce 1914

[Muerrisch]

I omitted to point out that the 2nd RWF "Truce" [featured inaccurately in today's D Tel, was, unusually, written about at considerable length by three British witnesses. Comparing Stockwell, Richardson and Richards there is a strong commonality, but, equally, some substantial differences. Stockwell and Richardson wrote their accounts almost immediately, Richards not until 20 years later.

These differences should remind us of the fragility of memory and post-event descriptiveness.

[David Filsell]

Maybe in this frequently fairies on the heads of pins debate this may be considered an irrelevant, or irreverent comment, but when in the 50s as kids, in the park, the playground or the street, we put down the "jumpers for goal posts"we "played football". When any one knocked on the door to ask if you could come out was for " a game of foot ball". It could be from 1 to 15 a side. The ball could frequently be a tennis ball, hence the development of my silky skills! It was never ever called a "kick about", I simply don't ever remember the term used. And you know what, I don't reckon the guys in the line did anything very different to us. They had a game of football.

[pehrt]

This happened, at the same time, in my schoolyard in Sweden and it happens today all over the world. It shows the beauty and the strength of football. That is why I am convinced it also happened when Saxon and Scottish soldiers met between Frelinghien and Houplines on Christmas Day 1914.

Se also my post today on the thread about my book: The Christmas Match: Football in No Man's Land 1914

With best wishes

Pehr Thermaenius

[IRC Kevin]

I omitted to point out that the 2nd RWF "Truce" [featured inaccurately in today's D Tel, was, unusually, written about at considerable length by three British witnesses. Comparing Stockwell, Richardson and Richards there is a strong commonality, but, equally, some substantial differences. Stockwell and Richardson wrote their accounts almost immediately, Richards not until 20 years later.

These differences should remind us of the fragility of memory and post-event descriptiveness.

Does anyone know if there is any photographic evidence of the RWF during their meeting in No-Man's Land? Question purely due to my interest in Stockwell in his later guise as Brig-Gen of 164 Brigade.

[Muerrisch]

No, in fact one of the witnesses regrets not having a camera.

PM me for a great deal I can add about Old Stockpot/ Buffalo Bill if you like.

[kenf48]

Reluctant to start a new thread but caught this on Radio 2 when collecting family on Christmas Eve

Now on player 'All is calm - The story of the Christmas Truce' narrated by John Hurt http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04ttzjl

For information the evidence for the football is presented though the message was essentially a 21st Century one.

Don't know if anyone caught there brilliant interview with Taff Gillingham on BBC News 24 on Christmas Eve as MrsF put it in her demure way speaking of the presenter who as usual was attempting to be controversial 'well that shoved it up her...'

Ken

[Kate Wills]

This has appeared in my local paper today:

A letter in which a Northamptonshire soldier described how he helped organise the famous First World War Christmas truce has been unearthed.

And the document, which Lance Corporal Willie Loasby wrote to his mother on December 27, 1914, is now expected to fetch £20,000 at auction.

The eight-page pencilled note, sent by L/Cpl Loasby, of the 2nd Northamptonshire Regiment, describes how the 25-year-old started shouting to German soldiers who were only 40 yards away in the trenches a few days before Christmas.

He explains how he persuaded the enemy not to shoot before bravely walking out into ‘no man’s land’ to meet a German officer.

There he exchanged his last loaf of bread as a peace offering – biting off the end to prove it was not poisoned – before agreeing to a Christmas Day ceasefire.

L/Cpl Loasby, whose name is immortalised on the war memorial in Kettering, also describes how he shouted across to the Germans on December 25 and arranged to meet the officer again.

He goes on to says how he was given gifts, including cigars and chocolate, by the soldier before “jokingly” suggesting the idea of a game of football.

In the document, one of the fullest descriptions of the Christmas Truce ever found, L/Cpl Loasby reveals how the German soldiers initially started off by “calling us English pigs and something a bit worse”.

But he says they then made jokes about the French and ended up shouting “Brave English”.

L/Cpl Loasby wrote: “On Xmas day I called up my friend the German and we met again halfway.

“Now out steps a German officer and comes up to me.

“The officer says, after shaking hands and in Good English ‘Are you all English in front there and no French’.

“I answered, ‘All English, no French.’ He replied, ‘I thought so’, then said ‘Ten Frenchman don’t make an Englishman’. I thought: ’Compliments’.

“He weighed me up and down, gave me six cigars, some chocolate, shook hands again and turned about , went back to his trench.

“The other chap gave me a knife as a souvenir.

“I said jokingly if he would play us a game of football. He said ‘yes’ then I got called in again and we were soon banging away at them again.

“But what makes it so strange to me is on each side of us they were still fighting and an officer, who ordered his men to fire volleys into them when they were asking to speak, had his head blown off a few hours afterwards.

“Of course we have had to forget all about that now we are at each others’ throats again...”

It is believed L/Cpl Loasby died on January 11, 1915, just two weeks after writing the letter – meaning he had probably been killed before it was read by his mother.

He was buried in Guards Cemetery near a small French village called Cuinchy.

The letter, which goes under the hammer at auction in March, is being sold by a collector who bought it at a house-clearing auction but only realised its importance when he saw his hometown of Northampton written on the top and decided to read it.

Auctioneer Richard Westwood-Brookes said: “I have seen many letters from World War One but this is without question the finest, and pinpoints the actual moments that the Christmas Truce took place.

“It has all the antecedence of the football match and how it started off with insults

being traded across no man’s land.

“It’s almost like two people squaring up to each other on a Saturday night and then suddenly it stops being a game of dare and ends when the German comes out of the trench and the English guy goes to meet him.

“Then they realise they are not fighting ‘the enemy’ but fighting real people.

“Loasby was probably shot by someone he was fraternising with and playing football with on Christmas Day.

“I’ve dealt with a lot of World War One letters and items but this is without question the most amazing letter I have ever read.

“It also shows that the whole affair was so bizarre in that men were shaking hands

with their German enemies

at certain points in no man’s land while other troops

were still fighting on either side.

“But at the same time it illustrates the great tragedy of the war; ordinary men with down-to-earth values of humanity and friendship reaching out to each other at Christmas and exchanging what meagre gifts they had.

“They even offered the last

loaf of bread to men who were supposedly their sworn enemies.”

***********************************************************************************************************

LANCE CORPORAL WILLIE LOASBY’S LETTER TO HOME AFTER CHRISTMAS DAY TRUCE

“On Thursday afternoon day before Xmas we stood shouting at the Germans in English (we can speak no German).

“They answered by calling us English Pigs and something a bit worse, well things went on like that for some time and matters improved and we asked them if they thought their people were in London.

“This happened in the section of trench I was in charge of between myself and a couple of men of my section. The Germans only being 40 yards away and we being nearer than at any other part of the line around here.

“Well the fellow next to me asked the German to stand right up, saying he would not shoot. The German did, then I asked him to come out of the trench and meet one of us half way and talk.

“He hesitated, but I assured him we would not shoot, if his fellows would not and to prove we meant it we stepped out of the trench and walked across towards them, all eyes were now watching this (the fellow I have just mentioned took our last loaf of bread the only one we had between about 10 of us, and gave it to the German, biting a bit off at the same time to let him know we had not poisoned it.

“Well everyone was now clapping both British and German and the Germans also shouted ‘Brave English’. I walked across to my man and shook hands, I asked him how he liked it. ‘Terrible, I wish I was back in Germany (in Good English !).

“I said, are you losing many men. He said ‘yes & could I make arrangements with my officer commanding to have Xmas day and Boxing to bury their dead and not firing. I said I would ask for him.

“I wanted a souvenir so I took my knife out of my pocket and he let me cut a button from his coat. I could only give him a few dirty old biscuits from my pocket... on Xmas day I called up my friend the German and we met again halfway.

“Now out steps a German officer and comes up to me. The officer says, after shaking hands and in Good English ‘Are you all English in front there and no French’. I answered, ‘All English, no French.’ He replied, ‘I thought so’, then said ‘Ten Frenchman don’t make an Englishman’. I thought: ’Compliments’.

“He weighed me up and down, gave me six cigars, some chocolate, shook hands again and turned about , went back to his trench. The other chap gave me a knife as a souvenir.

“I said jokingly if he would play us a game of football. He said ‘yes’ then I got called in again and we were soon banging away at them again.

“But what makes it so strange to me is on each side of us they were still fighting and an officer who ordered his men to fire volleys into them when they were asking to speak, had his head blown off a few hours afterwards.

“Of course we have had to forget all about that now we are at each others’ throats again...”

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/local/special-report-northamptonshire-soldier-described-the-christmas-day-truce-in-no-man-s-land-1-6488515

[squirrel]

Thanks for posting this Kate - no doubt, like the auctioneer, some will say that football was played yet the letter clearly indicates that it wasn't.

[Stoppage Drill]

Thanks for posting this Kate - no doubt, like the auctioneer, some will say that football was played yet the letter clearly indicates that it wasn't.

It indicates that no football was played in the immediate vicinity of the fraternisation Corporal Loasby witnessed. That's all.

It also indicates that there was, nevertheless, an inclination and possible intention to play: an inclination which may have been replicated elsewhere and which may have come to fruition.

[Guest]

This has appeared in my local paper today:

A letter in which a Northamptonshire soldier described how he helped organise the famous First World War Christmas truce has been unearthed. .

And the document, which Lance Corporal Willie Loasby wrote to his mother on December 27, 1914, is now expected to fetch £20,000 at auction.

“But what makes it so strange to me is on each side of us they were still fighting and an officer who ordered his men to fire volleys into them when they were asking to speak, had his head blown off a few hours afterwards.

“Of course we have had to forget all about that now we are at each others’ throats again...”

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/local/special-report-northamptonshire-soldier-described-the-christmas-day-truce-in-no-man-s-land-1-6488515

Interestingly the only British Officer killed on Christmas Day 1914 was an officer in the 2nd Bn Northamptonshire Regt - a Capt Charles Harold Reynell Watts - which may help corroborate this letter. His death is recorded in the Battalion diary as well as the 24th Inf Bde diary. This diary also records fraternisation on the 23rd Dec. Information indicated that the German unit was the 53rd Regt, 27th Brigade, 14th Div VII Corps.

Interestingly the diary of the 2nd Battallion shows quite clearly that senior Officers to Brigadier level were complicit in the truce negotiations. The idea that aspects of the truce were not reported for fear of what senior officers might think is slightly undermined by this particular diary:

24th Dec 1914. On Xmas Eve, the Germans and our men got into conversation eventually meeting on the "no mans" land between the trenches. Cigarettes and buttons (non-regimental) were exchanged and one of our men even got to their parapet and looked in.The German private soldiers seemed very friendly and said they did not wish to fight us, eventually even cheering the English. Most of them seemed very young as was also an Officer who also came and spoke to one of ours. They wished to have no firing on Xmas Day to which we agreed as far as concerned the two Coys of ours (A & B ) immediately opposite this part of their line. The cessation was to be from midnight to midnight.

25th Dec 1914. The next morning, 25th, acting on instructions from our Brigadier, we again got into conversation with them and they admitted that they had suffered heavily from our artillery fire on the previous evening. They also sent over some cigars and bread. We sent them some papers. Further intercourse was stopped by superior orders not, however, before two of their Officers sent us a letter (translation attached) which was far from complimentary.

The truce was, however, observed honourably by both sides. In the evening, the Germans decorated the trenches with lights and there was a good deal of singing on both sides. One of our Captains was killed in another part of the line about 8:00 am on the 25th, but there seems no reason to suspect treachery.The Battalion was relieved about 5:30 pm and went into billets at the RED BARN.

Casualties - Capt C H R WATTS killed, 10 wounded. Appendix IIII

The 2nd Bn Northamptonshire Regt was part of 24th Inf Bde, 8th Div. Incidentally Appendix III is a translation of a letter from the German officers which was not quite in the spirit of the Truce and included accusations of the use of Dum-Dum bullets as well as the line '..but all the same you are Englishmen whose annihilation we consider to be our most sacred duty..."

The diary entries for 25th Dec for the other battalions in the 24th Inf Bde follow. MG

1st Bn Worcestershire Regt

25th Dec 1914. Remained at LA GORGUE in billets.Marched back to B lines trenches about 5:00 pm. No firing during relief at all. The 2nd Bn NORTHAMPTONSHIRE REGT had arranged an unofficial armistice with the Germans till 12 Midnight, which we also kept.There was a certain amount of shouting remarks between the Germans and ourselves, and the Germans sang English and German songs most of the night, which were applauded by our men. In spite of the armistice our sentries were kept as much on the alert as usual.

No casualties.

2nd Bn East Lancashire Regt

25th Dec 1914. The Germans began shouting Christmas Greetings in the early morning and there was no firing throughout the whole day. The Brigadier and CRE 8th DIV came up to the lines to inspect the water difficulty, and a pump was set up in No 1 Section support trenches. During the afternoon some of our men and the Germans went into the open outside No 1 Section to bury some German dead which had been lying there for some time.

5:00 pm Battalion was relieved in trenches by 1st Bn SHERWOOD FORESTERS and marched to billets at PONT ROCHON as part of Divisional Reserve.

Casualties - 1 killed & 2 wounded.

1st Bn Sherwood Foresters

25th Dec 1914. 4:15 pm Coys start leaving billets to relieve 2nd Bn EAST LANCASHIRE REGT in A lines.

8:20 pm Relief completed. The quickest relief we have yet had, due to entire lack of fire and to severe frost of night 24th/25th December. An informal armistice was arranged between some of Germans opposite A lines and 2nd Bn EAST LANCASHIRE REGT, and during this time both sides collected the dead in front of the trenches.

Lt M P DILWORTH's and 8749 L/Cpl J WALTER's bodies were recovered and buried, the former, at these HQ at night.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Interestingly the diary of the 2nd Battallion shows quite clearly that senior Officers to Brigadier level were complicit in the truce negotiations.

Martin G,

A couple of days ago ( Dec 25th ) under the Thread ' The 1914 Christmas Truce involving British Officers ', I posted some photographs captioned as showing British officers from the Northumberland Hussars, taking part in the 1914 Christmas Day Truce. There was also another photograph taken by an officer from the 1st East Lancashire Regiment, who also took part in a Truce on Christmas Day, 1914.

Regards,

LF

[Guest]

Martin G,

A couple of days ago ( Dec 25th ) under the Thread ' The 1914 Christmas Truce involving British Officers ', I posted some photographs captioned as showing British officers from the Northumberland Hussars, taking part in the 1914 Christmas Day Truce. There was also another photograph taken by an officer from the 1st East Lancashire Regiment, who also took part in a Truce on Christmas Day, 1914.

Regards,

LF

LF, I had seen that, but it is a useful link, so thank you for the reminder.

Anyone who has read the war diaries will be very familiar with the lead that many Officers took in the truce. I mentioned it simply because some journalists appear to have a romantic idea that officers did not participate. There is also a view held by some that the unit war diarists (incidentally all officers) were fearful of reporting the detail. The idea being that senior officers would disapprove and this allegedly explains why very few unit diaries mention football.

Congreve and Gleichen (both Brigadiers at the time) recorded the truce in detail, one in a personal letter and the other in a personal diary published in 1917. The 24th Inf Bde Brigadier appears to have been instructing his battalions to engage in negotiations, which means at least three Brigadiers are known to have immediate knowledge of the Truce. I have little doubt every Brigade Commander was aware of events.

In the British Army there is a long tradition of COs and Regimental Officers visiting the men on Christmas Day, so we should not be surprised by COs and Brigadiers visiting the lines on this day. In fact it should be expected. The idea that some events might not be reported (due to fear) seems rather redundant if the same senior officers (and their Staff) were visiting the lines that day. Dozens of diaries record senior Officers visiting the lines on a regular basis. We know officers up to Brigadier level were acutely aware of events that day and in the case of 24th Inf Bde orchestrating the negotiations. I can't see why an adjutant would fear reporting events when he knew the Brigade Commander and his staff were already aware of what was going on. One might reasonably assume in this case all the COs in the Brigade were also aware.

To date I have not seen a Divisional Commander's first hand account of Christmas Day 1914. Gleichen records he was in trouble (or words to that effect) which might suggest the sense of humour failure happened above Brigade Commander level.

I recall reading that Smith Dorrien visited the lines on 26th Dec and was not amused.

MG

[squirrel]

It indicates that no football was played in the immediate vicinity of the fraternisation Corporal Loasby witnessed. That's all.

It also indicates that there was, nevertheless, an inclination and possible intention to play: an inclination which may have been replicated elsewhere and which may have come to fruition.

Quite so and in the context of Kate's post and my reply an unnnecessary explanation.

[kenf48]

I may be cynical but why are all these letters being 'discovered' now?

Ken

[Guest]

Messages and Signals Naval & Military Archive

1st Army HQ to 2nd Division 27/12/1914

It must be clearly understood that no armistice formal or informal are to be arranged without the sanction of the GOC 1st Army. Acknowledge. 1st Corps 11.20 am

Mike

[Don]

Interesting article

The first World War diary of an Irish Catholic priest has been found during a house clearance in Co Laois.

Canon Seán O’Doherty, now the PP in Durrow, Co Laois has authorised the publication of Co Kilkenny-born Fr Ned Dowling’s diary, which covers the period from late 1914 until the summer of 1915.

Fr Dowling served as a British Army Catholic chaplain and was sent to Flanders in November 1914, where he served with the Royal Dublin Fusiliers regiment.

The full 90-page transcript of the diary will be published for the first time in 2015 in, Kilkenny Voices from the Western Front 1914-1918 –

Fr Dowling’s description of the Christmas Truce – which seems to have lasted from Christmas Eve until the evening of St Stephen’s Day – is a rare eye-witness written account.

The British Army Catholic chaplain with the Royal Dublin Fusiliers regiment describes hearing, on Christmas Eve, the sound of singing coming from the German trenches and the Irish soldiers responding in “the same friendly spirit”.

Sent to Flanders in November 1914, he writes: “When on Xmas Eve, an hour or so before our relief (and what it meant to be relieved, the Germans knew quite well), the enemy came out from his lair and sung out to us, while our fellows were not behindhand in showing the same friendly spirit.

Spirit of temporary goodwill

“It didn’t mean that they wouldn’t cheerfully have bayoneted the lot in a charge, it only meant that as there was seemingly no immediate prospect of killing any large number of Germans according to the rules of the game, they were quite ready and curious to approach them in a spirit of temporary and strictly limited good-will.”

During the next two days, the soldiers from both sides approached one another “in a spirit of temporary and strictly limited good-will”.

Gifts were exchanged including “buttons, electric torches, cigarettes and cigars”. Fr Dowling himself received a gift of cigars from a German soldier from the city of Leipzig.

He described the famous football match as “a washout” because the gunners had been ordered to fire some rounds. The Irish soldiers had warned the Germans that this might happen – and even apologised. The Germans were understanding and said “they knew what selfish beasts gunners were, leading a soft-life at least a thousand yards from the firing line, and shelling poor helpless devils of infantrymen.”

Fr Dowling noted that: “There was mutual understanding and sympathy expressed.”

Eventually, the guns went quiet and “peace reigned once more”. Thereafter, he writes, “not a rifle shot was heard for several days”.

[CaroleHope]

I may be cynical but why are all these letters being 'discovered' now?

Ken

Hi Ken, I am not surprised that these letters have only just been discovered. Two reasons, firstly (other than Ulster) the issue of Ireland's participation in the Great War was a taboo subject for decades and what is more surprising, perhaps, is that they survived. The Catholic Church's attitude was largely one of ambivalence. Secondly, the keeper of the letters may not have realised their importance until just recently. When I made contact in 2009 with the descendants of Fr Willie Doyle, Chaplain with 16th (Irish) Division, visited them and discovered typed transcripts of his hand written letters sent from Western Front, they had no idea the value and importance of the documents ( original hand written letters were subsequently found lodged at Jesuit Archives.)

[kenf48]

No I'm not surprised, just cynical, to paraphrase Richard Adlington's telegram to his American agent in May 1929

'Referring great success of Sainsbury's advert ...urge earliest publication of Christmas Truce letter to take advantage of public mood. Large scale English letter might go big now.'

The letter that will supposedly fetch £20k, which I was referring to seems to have very shaky provenance.

Ken

[Guest]

Page 9 of the Daily Telegraph 31/12/1914 mentions a non-football match, as letters from the front begin to mention the truce.

Mike

[trajan]

I have kept well clear of this thread but today I stumbled upon this photograph at: http://www.kriegsopfer.org/Regiment_Wk1/KB_16_Res_Inf_Rgt/KB_16_Res_Inf_Rgt_2.html

According to that site it is

"Ein Erinnerungsbild an die Verbrüderung 1914 "Ich wünsche recht glückliche Weihnacht ! Marsden Oldham, England (Foto im Besitz von Max Herold, 8. Kp.)"

Trajan

[Guest]

Here is something that will put a smile on the face of the football fans and at least confirms footballs were available near the front line. :

2nd Bn Royal Scots War Diary: 24th Dec 1914. WESTOUTRE. Quiet day in billets which were inspected by the GOC 8th INF BDE.

Footballs issued to Coys. Game of football stopped in afternoon by bombs from hostile aircraft.

[Derek Black]

On 06/05/2014 at 10:24, QGE said:

2nd Bn Seaforth Highlanders:

25th Dec 1914. Hard frost, misty. Not a shot fired and we were able to walk about in the open even after the mist rose. Had some trouble in keeping the Germans away from our lines.

Put some more wire out and did a good deal of work by day.

A letter by 8022 Sgt George Wyllie, 2nd Seaforths, published in the 15/01/1915 Aberdeen Weekly Journal makes the War Diary entry look as though a few details were left out.

He mentions hand shaking, back patting and drinking of booze (the Germans supplied). An officer of his took a photo of the fraternisation and a 3 day truce was agreed and adhered to, the letter writer states he is composing on the third successful day of it.
Interstingly he says the Germans in the opposing trenches they met were of the 10th Bavarian Regiment.

Cheers,

Derek.

[Derek Black]

On 03/12/2013 at 20:14, David Ridgus said:

 

A 6th Btn Gordon in a letter to his brother in Nairn agrees with what Brown and Seton discovered about the burials and services.

 

He says the Germans came out of their trenches at 9am with the agreement they were to become their enemy again at 4pm.
The two services were conducted by the respective sides after burying their collected dead.
 

Further he states greetings were exchanged as well as gifts: tobacco, coins and "other things". He then mentions a 2nd Gordon was shaved by a German.

At 4pm the Germans returned to their trenches, but soon came back over, and for the remainder of the night and day not a shot was fired.

He finishes off by saying he will be spending New Year in the trenches and "...there is some word going that there is to be a football match between the Germans and 2nd Gordons on that day. I suppose the like of it has not been heard of before in the history of warfare."

Cheers,

Derek.

[John_Hartley]

My forthcoming history of 6th Cheshires recounts their experience of the truce, including a kickabout with the Germans involved in the play.

 

Two earlier accounts of football have been previously dismissed by "serious historians". The first, a letter home published in a local newspaper in Janaury 1915 was a bit vague in the wording and could have been read as a second hand account. In much later life, Ernie Williams recounted his participation in the kickabout but this was dismissed as the false memory of an old man. I include in the book the recently discovered diary of one of the officers present which makes it absolutely clear that the kickabout took place, confirming the accuracy of the previous accounts. It is, to use a perhaps appropriate metaphor, the "smoking gun" of evidence in this matter.

 

 

 

 

[Fattyowls]

2 hours ago, John_Hartley said:

My forthcoming history of 6th Cheshires recounts their experience of the truce, including a kickabout with the Germans involved in the play.

 

Two earlier accounts of football have been previously dismissed by "serious historians". The first, a letter home published in a local newspaper in Janaury 1915 was a bit vague in the wording and could have been read as a second hand account. In much later life, Ernie Williams recounted his participation in the kickabout but this was dismissed as the false memory of an old man. I include in the book the recently discovered diary of one of the officers present which makes it absolutely clear that the kickabout took place, confirming the accuracy of the previous accounts. It is, to use a perhaps appropriate metaphor, the "smoking gun" of evidence in this matter.

 

John, I'll be keen to take a copy off your hands when it becomes available, after proffering the required tariff of course. I think this and possibly Pehr's work on the 'match' at Frehlinghein are the most compelling evidence for kick abouts with the Germans. There is a lot of smoke from the gun in other accounts which suggests that the rumours spread really quickly up and down the line. Tantalising is the word.

 

What it doesn't do is offer any evidence for the ludicrous claims by the football authorities that the whole truce was about football.

 

Pete.