carolm Posted 22 March , 2011 Share Posted 22 March , 2011 Hi everyone, Over the years of my research into 5th Gordons I've accumulated quite a large number of casualty lists which include the names and numbers of wounded men, information that can otherwise be hard to come by. While we have numerous sources for those men who died, little information is freely available electronically (except for a couple of excellent hospital lists) for those who were wounded or POWs. I’ve pretty must exhausted my own research using these lists, but it seems a shame that more use can't be made of them. I often get queries via my website and have found the lists invaluable in helping people research soldiers. So, if someone is researching a Scottish regiment I’d be happy to share those I have. I have included the dates of the 1917 lists that I have. (Others years to follow). Battalions weren’t specified in 1917 – just number and home town (see first example below). Sorry about the long list, but I couldn't get the dates into columns! Let me know the Regiment you are interested in and the dates, and if your regiment is mentioned, I’ll send it/them along. You may have to send me a PM with your email. The lists are in pdf format and they contain details of men in Scottish regiments and also Scotsmen in other units. My collection by no means covers all the dates (I was usually just looking for Gordon Highlanders, and originally I printed rather than copied lists) but there are still quite a few. They contain names, numbers and home town of killed and wounded (though within that category there are multiple sub-categories - gassed, shell-shocked etc), and POWs. They are mainly for the period 1915 to 1917 though I have some 1914 lists which included English regiments as well. I've attached a couple of snips from various lists just to demonstrate how interesting and informative they can be. Though many, I must admit, are just heartbreakingly lengthy lists of killed and wounded. Carolyn 1917 lists: 3 August 1917 10 August 1917 27 August 1917 3 December 1917 4 December 1917 8 December 1917 10 December 1917 11 December 1917 14 December 1917 15 December 1917 18 December 1917 20 December 1917 24 December 1917 Wounded at Bangour 26 December 1917 31 December 1917 8 January 1917 12 January 1917 16 January 1917 23 July 1917 30 July 1917 1 June 1917 4 June 1917 11 June 1917 12 June 1917 13 June 1917 14 June 1917 18 June 1917 21 June 1917 25 June 1917 27 June 1917 28 June 1917 30 June 1917 14 May 1917 16 May 1917 26 May 1917 28 May 1917 10 November 2017 15 November 2017 19 November 1917 24 November 1917 29 November 1917 5 October 1917 8 October 1917 10 October 2017 12 October 1917 15 October 2017 20 October 2017 24 October 2017 25 October 2017 27 October 2017 29 October 2017 31 October 2019 19 September 2017 4 September 2017 7 September 2017 10 September 2017 14 September 2017 18 September 2017 22 September 2017 25 September 2017 26 September 2017 From a 1917 list of wounded. From a 1916 list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeesown Posted 22 March , 2011 Share Posted 22 March , 2011 Thanks for the offer Carolyn If you have anything for the 4th,5th and 4/5th Black Watch I would be very grateful.PM on its way. Gary.F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolm Posted 22 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 22 March , 2011 Hi Gary I've sent off a couple of lists. Battalion numbers aren't shown on the lists I have, so not sure if they are what you want. I'll check for more later. Carolyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 22 March , 2011 Share Posted 22 March , 2011 Carolyn I have done some research for my brother's friends on a soldier from the 8th Seaforth Highlanders,ALBERT CHAMBERLAIN. S/2189. He landed in France with the Battalion in Jul 1915 and at some stage was wounded ,at some time later returning to the 1st Seaforths and enjoying(?)some time in Mespot and Egypt,before demobilising in 1919. I have no indication to suppose that he was one of the Bn's hundreds wounded at LOOS in Sept 1915,or even later into 1916 elsewhere. Is it possible for you to say if he WAS wounded at LOOS,please ? Nothing as useful as a service or pension record survives. Thank you for posting your information ! Sotonmate Edit:you need dates it seems ! Battle began 25 Sept and ran into mid-October,but I think the heavy casualties were in the first day or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARMAGH Posted 22 March , 2011 Share Posted 22 March , 2011 Hello Carolyn Do you have any lists for the 6th Bn The Black Watch? Many thanks Joe PS do you still have my email address? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolm Posted 23 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 23 March , 2011 "Do you have any lists for the 6th Bn The Black Watch? do you still have my email address?" Hi Joe, Sorry I can't find your email address. Could you PM it. As I mentioned to Gary, the battalions weren't shown in the 1917 lists that I have and it's necessary to "guess" using the service numbers. If you let me know when the major battles were it would make it quicker to check the lists. The Casualty Lists were published in the paper about 4 to 6 weeks after the battles were fought. In 1915 the battalions were still included and I located quite a few mentions of the 6th. They are all quite short - usually only a few men listed on each, but many are quite informative giving details of the wounds. Let me know if that's the sort of thing you're interested in. I've found about 20 so far. Carolyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolm Posted 23 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 23 March , 2011 "Edit:you need dates it seems ! Battle began 25 Sept and ran into mid-October,but I think the heavy casualties were in the first day or two." Hi Sotonmate, You gave me the name of the battle which was fine. I have the casualty lists forthat period. However I couldn't find anything about him. I checked right through October, November and December but - nothing! Found plenty of others from the 8th Bn, but no Chamberlains. Sorry. Carolyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john conley Posted 23 March , 2011 Share Posted 23 March , 2011 Hi Carolyn This request is a real long shot. My Grandfather was with the 2/7th Royal Scots in Ireland. He was released to return to the front from Ireland on 23.1.1918. After a lot of investigation I found he was sent to either the 9th or 13th Royal Scots. He was then wounded for a second time (he has two wound stripes). His name Henry Alfred Conley 302289. Do you have any record of him in your lists. I should add he was a Londoner (cockney east end of London)sent to the Scots Battalion after being returned from the Somme wounded. Would apreciate any help you maybe able to give. Thanks in anticipation Regards John C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFayers Posted 23 March , 2011 Share Posted 23 March , 2011 Hi Carolyn, Many thanks for your very kind offer - I've sent you a PM. Kind regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeesown Posted 23 March , 2011 Share Posted 23 March , 2011 A very big thank you to Carolyn the information you sent to me is 1st class. All the best Gary and another big thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 23 March , 2011 Share Posted 23 March , 2011 A big thanks from me too Carolyn. Thanks too, for the excellent thread on the Derby Scheme Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 23 March , 2011 Share Posted 23 March , 2011 Carolyn Sorry to give you such a work-up ! Loos was a horrendous time and the 8th Seaforths lost over 70% there one way or another. I can at least say that his name didn't appear,so thanks for looking. Best wishes Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolm Posted 23 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 23 March , 2011 Hi John Re:Henry Alfred Conley 302289 Sorry, I couldn't find anything on him. The Scotsman - the source for most of the casualty lists I saved - stopped printing the names of wounded in 1918. So all I have for that year are a few names of men arriving at Scottish hospitals in hospital trains. Sorry I can't help. Good luck with your research. Carolyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john conley Posted 24 March , 2011 Share Posted 24 March , 2011 Hi Carolyn Thanks for looking for my man very much appreciated. John C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akh106 Posted 25 March , 2011 Share Posted 25 March , 2011 Carolyn, Thank you for your offer as I am researching the deaths of my great grandfather and his brother. The date of death for my great grandfather is somewhat confusing and I have a suspicion he may have been injured and then died at a medical station. (Red Cross medical station at Beugny ??). He is listed in the CWGC as dying on 14 March 1918, but checking the official war diary at that time the 1/5 Seaforth's were at O'Shea Camp taking a bath!! There was some action a few days earlier, but no notes referring to other ranks being wounded. Details of my relatives are below, and I will send a PM soon (when I have worked out how to do it). Thank you. Pte Robert Harper 240446 C Company 1/5 Seaforth Highlanders KIA - 14 March 1918 Pte Richard A Harper 241442 C Company 1/5 Seaforth Highlanders KIA - 16 may 1917. Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 25 March , 2011 Share Posted 25 March , 2011 Alan You might have to bear in mind that if your GF was,say, a sharpshooter he might have been seconded to the Brigade snipers from his Battalion,or some other specialism which called upon contributions from Battalions to the Div or Bde and away from the direct area of his Bn. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolm Posted 25 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 25 March , 2011 Hello Alan, As you mentioned in your PM I don't have much for 1918. I'm not sure if you know this already, but I did notice that Robert's Soldier's Will was at the National Archives of Scotland. It wouldn't help with knowing to how he died, but you might find it interesting to have anyway. The details are: Repository National Archives of Scotland Reference SC70/8/768/6 Title Will of 240446 Private Robert Harper, 5th Bn. or 1/5th, Seaforth Highlanders, Cause of death: Killed in action, France, Theatre: France and Flanders, 14 Mar 1918 Dates 4 Aug 1916 Access status Open Description Formal will (Army Form W.3297). War Office refs: E/537916/1, 407/683875/18/19 Level Item Extent 3 You also asked about accessing the John o Groats newspaper - I'd suggest you contact a local library - Wick or Thurso. Many of these libraries have Family History librarians who are usually only too happy to do a search for you. (Well, I've had some luck in the past with the people at Peterhead and Fraserburgh libraries.) I haven't look for Richard yet. However the casualty lists probably won't add much to the information you already have - they just show name a and number and home town of next of kin. Sometimes of course they may reveal something interesting, such as if he was initially reported missing. Anyway, I'll check and see what I find. It might take a few days. Cheers Carolyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 March , 2011 Share Posted 26 March , 2011 Hi Alan From this online book. War diary of the Fifth Seaforth Highlanders, 51st (Highland) Division Page 149-150 January February and early March were passed in the usual round of trench warfare-reserve, support and line in turn, and the names of Lebucquires, Boursies, Louverval, Achiet-le-Grand, Beugny, and Fremicourt recall on the whole was a quite pleasant part of the line. Fatigues were heavy, however, as the long expected German offensive was bound to be near, so the 5ist Division worked practically night and day, improving the existing trenches, digging the new Beau-metz-Morchies line, with new communication and switch trenches, and closing the front and each system with miles upon miles of barbed wire, while at the same time making an elaborate buried telephone cable system from 6 to 8 feet deep, extending almost from the front line well back towards the Divisional Headquarters at Fremicourt. Perhaps Robert was killed/wounded on one of these fatigue parties? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacNeil Posted 28 March , 2011 Share Posted 28 March , 2011 Hi Carolyn, I'm trying to research the men who served with my grandfather in the 7th Royal Highlanders (Black Watch). There are two dates which I'm especially interested in. The First is a trench raid on 3rd of June, 1916. My grandfather won his first MM during this raid. I've tried doing a bit of digging about for information on the wounded from this raid, but with limited success so far. Any info you have would be greatly appreciated, even if it's info I have already. It's good to be able to double check details from different sources. The second date I'm interested in is the 13th(to 15th) of November, 1916, the battle for Beaumont-Hamel on the Somme. Here again I've found a fair bit about some of the wounded, but any extra information would be hugely appreciated. Cheers in advance. Colin (KOF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolm Posted 28 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 28 March , 2011 Hi Colin, That should be no problem. I'm looking for some other Black Watch battalions as well. 1916 is slightly more difficult than 1915 and 1917 in that both the Scotsman and the Times stopped publishing battalion numbers and instead indicated home towns. So, could you give me a couple of towns the men from this battalion were likely to have come from and when I see a list of Black Watch casualties with quite a few of those towns mentioned I'll know I (probably) have the 7th. I've attached an example of what a 1916 wounded list looks like so you know what I'm talking about. Also, could send me a PM with your email address so I can foreward the lists. It may take me a few days. Cheers Carolyn EXAMPLE OF 1916 WOUNDED LIST (DEC 1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolm Posted 29 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2011 Hi Colin, I found a list of Black Watch men on a casualty list for 3rd July 1916. Under "Killed" were some men who died on 3rd June and were 7th Bn (Galloway and Mackie). I checked a couple of the numbers for the wounded on the list and could confirm a couple as 7th Bn: Paul - 3845 and Herd 1958. Don't know if all were in the same battalion, but you might. Also, I can't be positive they were wounded on the 3rd, but if you already have a few names you might be able to make a judgement one way or another. I'll keep checking around this date. Carolyn WOUNDED - Scotsman 3rd July 1916 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolm Posted 29 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2011 Hi Alan RE: Pte Robert Harper 240446 C Company 1/5 Seaforth Highlanders KIA - 14 March 1918 Pte Richard A Harper 241442 C Company 1/5 Seaforth Highlanders KIA - 16 may 1917. I found mention of both men in the casualty list. There is nothing new in Richard's - just mention in a casualty list of 14 June that he had died. However Robert's entry might be more useful. Sotonmate wasn't far off saying he may have been a sniper. It actually shows he was attached to trench mortar battery. (Scotsman casualty list 19 April 1918). Carolyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bulloch Posted 29 March , 2011 Share Posted 29 March , 2011 Carolyn.. Thanks for the look-up offer. Do you have anything on your lists for the 5th Battalion Cameron Highlanders for September 1915 around 20th till the 26th of that month. Thanks in advance Aye Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolm Posted 29 March , 2011 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2011 Hello Rob, I have most of the lists for Loos. They appeared in the papers about 4 weeks after the battle, with the longest lists on 18th, 19th and 25th October. I'll need your email address in order to send them. Could you send it to me via a PM? As well as the lists I also have some "biographies". At this stage of the war the Scotsman included short articles about Other Ranks - the sort of thing you usually find in local newspapers. There are quite a few mentions of 5th Cameron Highlanders mixed in with other regiments. Are you interested in those as well? An example is attached below. Carolyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bulloch Posted 29 March , 2011 Share Posted 29 March , 2011 Carolyn. Thanks for posting the newspaper cutting, "first class" exactly the type of information I am looking for. Again many thanks for sharing your information. Aye Rob. PS. Personal message on its way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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