Scottish Regiments

[carolm]

Hi everyone,

Over the years of my research into 5th Gordons I've accumulated quite a large number of casualty lists which include the names and numbers of wounded men, information that can otherwise be hard to come by. While we have numerous sources for those men who died, little information is freely available electronically (except for a couple of excellent hospital lists) for those who were wounded or POWs.

I’ve pretty must exhausted my own research using these lists, but it seems a shame that more use can't be made of them. I often get queries via my website and have found the lists invaluable in helping people research soldiers.

So, if someone is researching a Scottish regiment I’d be happy to share those I have. I have included the dates of the 1917 lists that I have. (Others years to follow). Battalions weren’t specified in 1917 – just number and home town (see first example below). Sorry about the long list, but I couldn't get the dates into columns!

Let me know the Regiment you are interested in and the dates, and if your regiment is mentioned, I’ll send it/them along. You may have to send me a PM with your email.

The lists are in pdf format and they contain details of men in Scottish regiments and also Scotsmen in other units. My collection by no means covers all the dates (I was usually just looking for Gordon Highlanders, and originally I printed rather than copied lists) but there are still quite a few. They contain names, numbers and home town of killed and wounded (though within that category there are multiple sub-categories - gassed, shell-shocked etc), and POWs. They are mainly for the period 1915 to 1917 though I have some 1914 lists which included English regiments as well.

I've attached a couple of snips from various lists just to demonstrate how interesting and informative they can be. Though many, I must admit, are just heartbreakingly lengthy lists of killed and wounded.

Carolyn

1917 lists:

3 August 1917

10 August 1917

27 August 1917

3 December 1917

4 December 1917

8 December 1917

10 December 1917

11 December 1917

14 December 1917

15 December 1917

18 December 1917

20 December 1917

24 December 1917 Wounded at Bangour

26 December 1917

31 December 1917

8 January 1917

12 January 1917

16 January 1917

23 July 1917

30 July 1917

1 June 1917

4 June 1917

11 June 1917

12 June 1917

13 June 1917

14 June 1917

18 June 1917

21 June 1917

25 June 1917

27 June 1917

28 June 1917

30 June 1917

14 May 1917

16 May 1917

26 May 1917

28 May 1917

10 November 2017

15 November 2017

19 November 1917

24 November 1917

29 November 1917

5 October 1917

8 October 1917

10 October 2017

12 October 1917

15 October 2017

20 October 2017

24 October 2017

25 October 2017

27 October 2017

29 October 2017

31 October 2019

19 September 2017

4 September 2017

7 September 2017

10 September 2017

14 September 2017

18 September 2017

22 September 2017

25 September 2017

26 September 2017

From a 1917 list of wounded.

From a 1916 list.

[dundeesown]

Thanks for the offer Carolyn

If you have anything for the 4th,5th and 4/5th Black Watch I would be very grateful.PM on its way.

Gary.F.

[carolm]

Hi Gary

I've sent off a couple of lists. Battalion numbers aren't shown on the lists I have, so not sure if they are what you want. I'll check for more later.

Carolyn

[sotonmate]

Carolyn

I have done some research for my brother's friends on a soldier from the 8th Seaforth Highlanders,ALBERT CHAMBERLAIN. S/2189. He landed in France with the Battalion in Jul 1915 and at some stage was wounded ,at some time later returning to the 1st Seaforths and enjoying(?)some time in Mespot and Egypt,before demobilising in 1919. I have no indication to suppose that he was one of the Bn's hundreds wounded at LOOS in Sept 1915,or even later into 1916 elsewhere. Is it possible for you to say if he WAS wounded at LOOS,please ?

Nothing as useful as a service or pension record survives.

Thank you for posting your information !

Sotonmate

Edit:you need dates it seems ! Battle began 25 Sept and ran into mid-October,but I think the heavy casualties were in the first day or two.

[ARMAGH]

Hello Carolyn

Do you have any lists for the 6th Bn The Black Watch?

Many thanks

Joe

PS

do you still have my email address?

[carolm]

"Do you have any lists for the 6th Bn The Black Watch?

do you still have my email address?"

Hi Joe,

Sorry I can't find your email address. Could you PM it. As I mentioned to Gary, the battalions weren't shown in the 1917 lists that I have and it's necessary to "guess" using the service numbers. If you let me know when the major battles were it would make it quicker to check the lists. The Casualty Lists were published in the paper about 4 to 6 weeks after the battles were fought.

In 1915 the battalions were still included and I located quite a few mentions of the 6th. They are all quite short - usually only a few men listed on each, but many are quite informative giving details of the wounds. Let me know if that's the sort of thing you're interested in. I've found about 20 so far.

Carolyn

[carolm]

"Edit:you need dates it seems ! Battle began 25 Sept and ran into mid-October,but I think the heavy casualties were in the first day or two."

Hi Sotonmate,

You gave me the name of the battle which was fine. I have the casualty lists forthat period. However I couldn't find anything about him. I checked right through October, November and December but - nothing! Found plenty of others from the 8th Bn, but no Chamberlains.

Sorry.

Carolyn

[john conley]

Hi Carolyn

This request is a real long shot.

My Grandfather was with the 2/7th Royal Scots in Ireland.

He was released to return to the front from Ireland on 23.1.1918.

After a lot of investigation I found he was sent to either the 9th or 13th Royal Scots.

He was then wounded for a second time (he has two wound stripes).

His name Henry Alfred Conley 302289.

Do you have any record of him in your lists.

I should add he was a Londoner (cockney east end of London)sent to the Scots Battalion

after being returned from the Somme wounded.

Would apreciate any help you maybe able to give.

Thanks in anticipation

Regards John C

[SFayers]

Hi Carolyn,

Many thanks for your very kind offer - I've sent you a PM.

Kind regards

Steve

[dundeesown]

A very big thank you to Carolyn the information you sent to me is 1st class.

All the best Gary and another big thanks.

[Guest]

A big thanks from me too Carolyn. Thanks too, for the excellent thread on the Derby Scheme

Mike

[sotonmate]

Carolyn

Sorry to give you such a work-up ! Loos was a horrendous time and the 8th Seaforths lost over 70% there one way or another. I can at least say that his name didn't appear,so thanks for looking.

Best wishes

Sotonmate

[carolm]

Hi John

Re:Henry Alfred Conley 302289

Sorry, I couldn't find anything on him. The Scotsman - the source for most of the casualty lists I saved - stopped printing the names of wounded in 1918. So all I have for that year are a few names of men arriving at Scottish hospitals in hospital trains.

Sorry I can't help. Good luck with your research.

Carolyn

[john conley]

Hi Carolyn

Thanks for looking for my man very much appreciated.

John C

[akh106]

Carolyn,

Thank you for your offer as I am researching the deaths of my great grandfather and his brother. The date of death for my great grandfather is somewhat confusing and I have a suspicion he may have been injured and then died at a medical station. (Red Cross medical station at Beugny ??). He is listed in the CWGC as dying on 14 March 1918, but checking the official war diary at that time the 1/5 Seaforth's were at O'Shea Camp taking a bath!! There was some action a few days earlier, but no notes referring to other ranks being wounded. Details of my relatives are below, and I will send a PM soon (when I have worked out how to do it).

Thank you.

Pte Robert Harper 240446

C Company 1/5 Seaforth Highlanders

KIA - 14 March 1918

Pte Richard A Harper 241442

C Company 1/5 Seaforth Highlanders

KIA - 16 may 1917.

Alan.

[sotonmate]

Alan

You might have to bear in mind that if your GF was,say, a sharpshooter he might have been seconded to the Brigade snipers from his Battalion,or some other specialism which called upon contributions from Battalions to the Div or Bde and away from the direct area of his Bn.

Sotonmate

[carolm]

Hello Alan,

As you mentioned in your PM I don't have much for 1918. I'm not sure if you know this already, but I did notice that Robert's Soldier's Will was at the National Archives of Scotland. It wouldn't help with knowing to how he died, but you might find it interesting to have anyway. The details are:

Repository National Archives of Scotland

Reference SC70/8/768/6

Title Will of 240446 Private Robert Harper, 5th Bn. or 1/5th, Seaforth Highlanders, Cause of death: Killed in action, France, Theatre: France and Flanders, 14 Mar 1918

Dates 4 Aug 1916

Access status Open

Description Formal will (Army Form W.3297). War Office refs: E/537916/1, 407/683875/18/19

Level Item

Extent 3

You also asked about accessing the John o Groats newspaper - I'd suggest you contact a local library - Wick or Thurso. Many of these libraries have Family History librarians who are usually only too happy to do a search for you. (Well, I've had some luck in the past with the people at Peterhead and Fraserburgh libraries.)

I haven't look for Richard yet. However the casualty lists probably won't add much to the information you already have - they just show name a and number and home town of next of kin. Sometimes of course they may reveal something interesting, such as if he was initially reported missing. Anyway, I'll check and see what I find. It might take a few days.

Cheers

Carolyn

[Guest]

Hi Alan

From this online book. War diary of the Fifth Seaforth Highlanders, 51st (Highland) Division

Page 149-150

January February and early March were passed in the usual round of trench warfare-reserve, support and line in turn, and the names of Lebucquires, Boursies, Louverval, Achiet-le-Grand, Beugny, and Fremicourt recall on the whole was a quite pleasant part of the line. Fatigues were heavy, however, as the long expected German offensive was bound to be near, so the 5ist Division worked practically night and day, improving the existing trenches, digging the new Beau-metz-Morchies line, with new communication and switch trenches, and closing the front and each system with miles upon miles of barbed wire, while at the same time making an elaborate buried telephone cable system from 6 to 8 feet deep, extending almost from the front line well back towards the Divisional Headquarters at Fremicourt.

Perhaps Robert was killed/wounded on one of these fatigue parties?

Mike

[MacNeil]

Hi Carolyn,

I'm trying to research the men who served with my grandfather in the 7th Royal Highlanders (Black Watch). There are two dates which I'm especially interested in. The First is a trench raid on 3rd of June, 1916. My grandfather won his first MM during this raid. I've tried doing a bit of digging about for information on the wounded from this raid, but with limited success so far. Any info you have would be greatly appreciated, even if it's info I have already. It's good to be able to double check details from different sources.

The second date I'm interested in is the 13th(to 15th) of November, 1916, the battle for Beaumont-Hamel on the Somme. Here again I've found a fair bit about some of the wounded, but any extra information would be hugely appreciated.

Cheers in advance.

Colin

(KOF)

[carolm]

Hi Colin,

That should be no problem. I'm looking for some other Black Watch battalions as well. 1916 is slightly more difficult than 1915 and 1917 in that both the Scotsman and the Times stopped publishing battalion numbers and instead indicated home towns. So, could you give me a couple of towns the men from this battalion were likely to have come from and when I see a list of Black Watch casualties with quite a few of those towns mentioned I'll know I (probably) have the 7th. I've attached an example of what a 1916 wounded list looks like so you know what I'm talking about.

Also, could send me a PM with your email address so I can foreward the lists. It may take me a few days.

Cheers

Carolyn

EXAMPLE OF 1916 WOUNDED LIST (DEC 1916)

[carolm]

Hi Colin,

I found a list of Black Watch men on a casualty list for 3rd July 1916. Under "Killed" were some men who died on 3rd June and were 7th Bn (Galloway and Mackie). I checked a couple of the numbers for the wounded on the list and could confirm a couple as 7th Bn: Paul - 3845 and Herd 1958. Don't know if all were in the same battalion, but you might. Also, I can't be positive they were wounded on the 3rd, but if you already have a few names you might be able to make a judgement one way or another. I'll keep checking around this date.

Carolyn

WOUNDED - Scotsman 3rd July 1916

[carolm]

Hi Alan

RE:

Pte Robert Harper 240446

C Company 1/5 Seaforth Highlanders

KIA - 14 March 1918

Pte Richard A Harper 241442

C Company 1/5 Seaforth Highlanders

KIA - 16 may 1917.

I found mention of both men in the casualty list. There is nothing new in Richard's - just mention in a casualty list of 14 June that he had died. However Robert's entry might be more useful. Sotonmate wasn't far off saying he may have been a sniper. It actually shows he was attached to trench mortar battery. (Scotsman casualty list 19 April 1918).

Carolyn

[Rob Bulloch]

Carolyn.. Thanks for the look-up offer. Do you have anything on your lists for the 5th Battalion Cameron Highlanders for September 1915 around 20th till the 26th of that month.

Thanks in advance Aye Rob.

[carolm]

Hello Rob,

I have most of the lists for Loos. They appeared in the papers about 4 weeks after the battle, with the longest lists on 18th, 19th and 25th October.

I'll need your email address in order to send them. Could you send it to me via a PM?

As well as the lists I also have some "biographies". At this stage of the war the Scotsman included short articles about Other Ranks - the sort of thing you usually find in local newspapers. There are quite a few mentions of 5th Cameron Highlanders mixed in with other regiments. Are you interested in those as well? An example is attached below.

Carolyn

[Rob Bulloch]

Carolyn. Thanks for posting the newspaper cutting, "first class" exactly the type of information I am looking for. Again many thanks for sharing your information.

Aye Rob.

PS. Personal message on its way.