Mrs Mabel Dearmer

[chrisharley9]

Greyhound

thanks for the encouragement

We now have the staff list for the hospital See Here

Chris

[chrisharley9]

Would it help to know that campaign medals where issued to the Serbian Relief Fund - lots of MICs at Documents On Line

though it does not seem to be the case with our 4 casualties

Chris

[Jim Strawbridge]

I am afraid that I am acting a bit like a devil's advocate on this one. The CWGC cares for, without political intervention, graves and memorials around the world. It accepted strict guidelines as to which organisation's members were eligible and other than the obvious uniformed services, including those bodies that formed the Joint War Committee. Some organisations did very good work outside of the JWC and suffered casualties through disease and working in harsh conditions. But our peers at the time knew about these organisations and chose not to include them as casualties under the auspices of the CWGC. Perhaps it was the total independance of them through not being under British military control was the cause. What I don't understand is why the need to add new graves to the CWGC care at this late stage. Let me rephrase that. Why single out the Serbian Relief Fund graves as having this priviledge when there are so may other non-JWC organisations that would still be excluded. I have already been down this road in trying to chose who to include and exclude from the Register that I am preparing of WW1 serving female casualties. It was originally to be a listing of names and biographies of the 603 (or thereabouts) women whose next of kin received the WW1 memorial plaque. The NA had no listing as records were lost in the blitz. I then discovered the names at York Minster which included many more female casualties (not necessarily with memorial plaques issued). These included munition workers and others including the SRF, some Scottish Women's Hospitals and so on. Anomolies crept in that Australian munition workers were elible for CWGC care but not British ones. Some VADs were subject to CWGC care but not others. TD of this forum has researched the reason's for this. But anomolies abound (Martha Lindsay, VAD died.interred in Paris not subject to CWGC care). Even the great Elsie Inglis, co-founder of Scottish Women's Hospitals, does not appear to be under CWGC care even though her organisation was an eligible one. A member of Lena Ashwell's Concert Party was a casualty and her grave has CWGC care through the LACP being allied to the YMCA which itself was a member of the JWC. I also found civilian nurses working in military hospitals that died. They should, perhaps, be remembered just as much as their uniformed QMAINS whom they worked beside but the latter's grave having CWGC care whilst the former is not. There is also the possibility that some families did not want CWGC care of their loved ones graves for religious or other reasons.

So what I am really trying to say is that this endeavour to have the CWGC recognise the Serbian Relief Fund casualties in isolation to all of the other equally deserving cases actually does a disservice to those others that will remain outside of CWGC care. As I said before, I am acting a bit as a devil's advocate and applaude what Chris is doing but we should either leave well alone and accept that our forefathers knew what they were doing when they were excluded or try and include ALL of the organisation's casualties providing they were doing war work. A start would be for all of the names on the York Minster panels to be recognised as deserving of CWGC care.

Having had my rant I am here to help. The York Minster panels, under Serbian Relief Fund, lists :-

BURY, Vivyan

CLARK, Nellie

DEARMER, M. Mrs

FERRIS, Lorna

FRAZER, Violet T. (late addition)

HARLEY, K.M. Mrs

HAVERFIELD, E. Hon. Mrs

HOMBERSLEY, Mary

Vivyan Bury is believed to be buried in London as she died at home.

Nellie Clark is believed to be buried in Skopje, Macedonia.

Mabel Dearmer and Lorna Ferris are believed to be buried next to each other in Vrnjacka Banja town cemetery, Raska, Serbia.

Violet Frazer died at Predejani in the Morava valley, Serbia.

Katherine Harley is buried in plot C.B.O. 38, Lambet Road Military Cemetery, Salonika, Greece.

Evelina Haverfield is buried in Bajina Basta, Serbia.

Mary Hombersley - resting place presently unknown to me.

I have other names of VADs who were attached to the Serbian Army, died and are buried in Serbia but their graves are tended by the CWGC. But the listing above are the only Serbian Relief Fund female casualties of which I am aware.

Dr. Elizabeth Ross I have as VAD and is recorded under "Medical Women" on the York Minster panels and not Serbian Relief Fund. She is buried close to the main gate of Kragujevac City cemetery, Serbia - said to be next to Dearmer and Ferris. None of the other "Medical Women" seem to have Serbian links.

[Jim Strawbridge]

I knew the name rang a bell - Percy Dearmer was the author of a number of hymns, including that old school favourite He Who Would Valiant Be.

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/bio/d/e/a/dearmer_p.htm

I don't think so. That was by John Bunyan with Percy tinkering with it for a hymnal that he was editing.

[chrisharley9]

Jim

thanks very much for your reply

If you see post 26 TD is saying he believes that the SRF was originally supposed to be one of the organisations that should have been included in the CWGC remit so that is why im still trying to push this case forward

If I had the details of other JWC organisations I would try to take them forward on a case by case basis if you care to let me know their details

On to individuals

I have a file of Times cuttings relating to Mrs Haverfield - at the time of her death she seems to have off on her own with an organisation that she formed herself (I would be happy to let you have these as well as other SRF related articles)

I do value your input into this topic

Chris

[Jim Clay]

Mary Hombersley - resting place presently unknown to me.

Jim

I found this on FreeBMD. Could be your Mary Hombersley?

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Deaths Dec 1917 (>99%)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hombersley Mary 55 Reading 2c 401

Jim

[Jim Strawbridge]

Jim

I found this on FreeBMD. Could be your Mary Hombersley?

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Deaths Dec 1917 (>99%)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hombersley Mary 55 Reading 2c 401

Jim

Jim, This is a tricky one to find. This is what I have so far :-

"There are only two Hombersleys in the 1901 census. These are William Hombersley, aged 82 and his daughter, Elizabeth, aged 41, living together at Kirk Ireton, Derbyshire. They were originally from Staffordshire. This is probably Rev. William Hombersley of Normacote. A Miss Hombersley, of Derbyshire, was on the committee of the Women’s Memorial of Queen Victoria in 1902 and a very keen fund raiser for the Queen’s nurses". But none of these may relate to Mary Hombersley. Lack of census information leads me to think that she was Scottish, or born in the colonies or perhaps a married woman who will be in the 1901 census under her maiden name. Roll on the release of the 1911 census.

[Greyhound]

I don't think so. That was by John Bunyan with Percy tinkering with it for a hymnal that he was editing.

Ooops, my bad. Percy's name is very familiar to me from the old hymnbooks though.

Re Mary Hombersley - perhaps the Berkshire Burial Index might help, if anyone has access? Sorry, I don't.

[chrisharley9]

Terry

how to proceed from here - no death certificates, but we know where the graves are. Got newspaper reports - your advice would be appreciated

Chris

[chrisharley9]

Just bumping this up again - Terry whats your opinion

Chris

[Terry Denham]

Chris

Lost track of this one a bit. I'll re-read it all.

[Terry Denham]

Chris

Having gone through this again...

We obviously do not have what would be deemed sufficient proof in a normal case but this one is intriguing.

I for one would like to finally settle whether the SRF does qualify for commemoration or not. It seems it was thought so at one stage but then the one listed casualty was reallocated to another 'Regiment' and SRF became her subordinate unit. Was this as a result of new information or is it an error?

Could I ask you to put all the known details on Mrs Dearmer with the appropriate scans together and email it to me in the usual way. I will then see what can be done or at least get some clarification.

[chrisharley9]

Terry

will follow up with everything in the next few days - have a hectic time planned

Chris

[janecavell]

I'm just bumping this thread from 2008 as I've found a possible new lead on Mary Hombersley, whose name first appears in post 53 above.

Hombersley is such an unusual name that it seems likely she's the same Mary Hombersley who appears on the war memorial for Islip in Oxfordshire (see penultimate Islip photo on the Oxfordshire War Memorials site). Did anyone ever discover more about her? If not I shall look into parish records etc for more info.

[chrisharley9]

Nothing further on the lady at the moment. Awaiting a review by CWGC

Chris

[Guest samartin345@btinternet.com]

With reference to Mary Hombersley, her name is on the Islip War Memorial, Oxfordshire. The information I have about her is as follows:

She was in the Nursing Service and died of illness contracted on Active Service in Serbia.

From Dr. South’s School, Islip, Log Book:

9.1.1917 - Miss M. Hombersley gave the children a few minutes chat on her experiences in the Serbian retreat. The scholars have sent, through Miss Hombersley, a parcel of clothing worked in school, for the Serbian refugees. 30.11.1917 - Choir boys and “Cubs” [attended] the funeral of the late Miss M. Hombersley.

She was buried on 30 Nov 1917, Mary Hombersley, age 55, of Islip, at Islip Parish Church.

I don't have any information as to why she was living in Islip. There is no record of her being born in Islip or anybody else of that surname living in Islip. Hope this is of some help.

[janecavell]

Welcome to the Forum, and thank you for supplying that really useful snippet from the Islip school log book. The details all tie in with this being the Mary Hombersley who died in the Reading district in 1917. Her age at death is consistent with her being the Mary Hombersley who was the daughter of the Rev. William Hombersley of Kirk Ireton (see above). In fact the surname is so rare that I haven't yet found any other Mary Hombersleys.

Now we just need to find out what brought her to Oxfordshire . . .

Thanks again

Jane

[janecavell]

I have just found Mary Hombersley on the 1901 census via Findmypast: she was 38, unmarried, and with her 88 year old maiden aunt Sarah Pickford at Pickford Lodge, Kingsterndale, Derbyshire (RG 13/3271, f.3).

[Guest samartin345@btinternet.com]

Thought you would be interested to know that by chance I have come across a photo of the 1st Islip Scouts and Cubs Group which has Miss Hombersley on it obviously as their leader. Unfortunately the creases in the photo run across her face so it isn't really possible to see what she looked like. It is dated 'about 1918' but obviously it must have been earlier.

Shirley

[John_Hartley]

On a related matter, do nursing staff of the "Friends Emergency & War Victims Relief Committee" qualify for commemoration?

Gertrude Powicke died on 20 December 1919 at Warsaw and is buried there (somewhere) , having contracted typhoid whilst nursing at Lemburg.

[chrisharley9]

John

best ask Terry that question

Chris

[janecavell]

Thought you would be interested to know that by chance I have come across a photo of the 1st Islip Scouts and Cubs Group which has Miss Hombersley on it obviously as their leader. Unfortunately the creases in the photo run across her face so it isn't really possible to see what she looked like. It is dated 'about 1918' but obviously it must have been earlier.

Thank you again, Shirley. It's amazing how this forum can reunite all these scattered pieces of jigsaw puzzles. Whatever did we do without the internet?

Best wishes

Jane

[chrisharley9]

Whatever did we do without the internet?

Best wishes

Jane

we could sit up the pub watching the football

Chris

[pauldesmondwhite]

Re. Mary Hombersley, i've started a topic just for her. Seems there's still more to be discovered...

[Phil Wood]

Another bump for this one - did the CWGC ever rule on the Serbian Relief Fund?

My interest is in Lorna Ferris (Newbury War Memorial) http://westberkshirewarmemorials.org.uk/texts/stories/WBP00880S.php

The locals in Kragujevac hold a ceremony every 14th Feb to honour Lorna, Elizabeth Ross and Mabel Dearmer - the Bishop presides and the British Ambassador attends or is represented. Seems a shame that the CWGC can't recognise them. I don't suppose they would need to worry about the expense of looking after the gravestones - I can't imaging the locals letting them fall into disrepair (see pictures in link).