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Remembered Today:

Mrs Mabel Dearmer


chrisharley9
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Just found yet another possible non commemorated from the Times archives

First of all does the Serbian Relief Fund count as one of the organisations that are recognised by the CWGC for war grave purposes

Secondly where do I find the DC refs for overseas civilian deaths during the Great War

Will post the newspaper clippings later for all to see

Chris

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DEARMER15071915.png

DEARMER15071915A.png

Here are the newspaper cuttings from the Times of 15 July 1915

Chris

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Thanks for that little snippet Bill

Chris

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Jessie Mabel Prichard WHITE, born Carnarvon 22 March 1872, daughter of Surgeon-Major William WHITE and Selina Taylor White PRICHARD.

She married Percy DEARMER (vicar of St Mary-the-Virgin, Primrose Hill, author of The Parson's Handbook, among others) in Richmond, Surrey, on 26 May 1892.

Rev Dearmer was chaplain to a British Red Cross ambulance unit in Serbia. Mabel, who worked at Stobart Hospital, Serbian Relief Fund, died of enteric fever on 11 July 1915.

Bill has mentioned Geoffrey. Their other son Christopher was a Lieutenant in the RNAS who died of wounds on 6 October 1915

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...asualty=4003937

Percy remarried in 1916 (to Nancy KNOWLES on 19 August 1916). Their son Anthony died in WW2

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...asualty=2456428

(See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Dearmer)

As to whether Mabel Dearmer should be commemmorated, I think the answer is no (unfortunately), as the Serbian Relief Fund is not one of the civilian organisations recognised by CWGC. Terry D will know better, of course!

She is buried in Kragujevac cemetery beside Dr Elizabeth Ross and nurse Lorna Ferriss.

Adrian

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Adrian

thanks for the additional info - yes im always hesitant on civilian organisations so will await TDs judgement

Chris

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Chris,

I came across a similar case at Sturry near Canterbury in Kent - Elsie Madeline BATES. See this PDF download (M Bates Plaque at end of report) - http://www.kentfallen.com/PDF%20REPORTS/STURRY%20NEW.pdf

I have just found this thread which concerns her involving YOU! What a coincidence...

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...+madeline+bates

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...;hl=elsie+bates

I was advised this lady wasn't entitled to be commemorated by the CWGC but in light of your thread and my past involvement perhaps it warrants looking at again? I was under the impression she died in France but it looks like you found the truth. I may write to the church in Sturry and provide more info about her.

It's a shame I didn't find your thread when it was being discussed. If you know of anyone who wants a photo of that plaque in Sturry, tell em to get in touch with me.

Female civilian volunteers and Nurses in WW1 seem to get a bit of a raw deal much the same as Merchantile Marine/Merchant Navy men. It's unfair and unjust as we all know but at least WW2 civilians do get a CWGC tribute (albeit a limited one).

Neil

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Name: BATES, MADELINE ELSIE

Initials: M E

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Sister

Regiment/Service: Voluntary Aid Detachment

Secondary Regiment: British Red Cross Society

Age: 35

Date of Death: 22/12/1917

Additional information: Daughter of William John and Annie Maria Bates, of "Southover," Sturry, Kent. Born at Waltham Abbey, Essex.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Cemetery: SHENFIELD (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD

Neil

looks like she has a CWGC commemoration - if you look at the Roll of Honour medical database Here you will find a photo of her grave coutesy of Tony M

Chris

Chris

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Blimey, I'm shocked!!!!!!!!!!!

I found her plaque in the church in 2004 with Dave Hughes. Up to that point I had never heard of her. No one in the church knew the circumstances of her death.

I looked into this lady's death about 4 years ago and she didn't have a commemoration then! I wrote to the CWGC and enquired why her name wasn't recorded on the indexes. I received a letter back stating the circumstances of her death did not qualify for commemoration. She wasn't on duty when she was killed she was on leave. I know at this time she wasn't recorded. I acknowledged that letter and left it there (but stated the unfairness of it). I never heard anything more...

I wasn't aware at that time that certain civilian organisations were entitled to commemoration as a matter of fact. I only learned the truth recently when Terry Denham posted a helpful list on the forum.

It looks like someone else has had her case reviewed? Or perhaps the CWGC added her name and forgot to tell me? If so then maybe I can now add a further non-com to our total????????

I wonder how long she's been on the index?

Thanks for pointing this out Chris.

Neil

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Here it is - Note it states killed whilst on leave. I will let Martin Edwards have a copy for his database. I wonder if Tony M wants a copy too?

post-2961-1221673274.jpg

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Neil

dont worry about sending it to Martin as Im the keeper of the ROH medical database - I will just put in a link on her record

PM Tony M for his e mail

Chris

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I will email you a full size version now, use it as you please. Sorry to hijak your thread with this Nurse. I wonder if I should take credit for her com (33)?

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Terry

do you have any comment on this thread

Chris

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Chris

Not seen this thread till now.

The Serbian Relief Fund is not one of the civilian organisations recognised by the military for CWGC commemoration.

Neil

Madeline Bates has been in the CWGC database since before the records were computerised in 1995.

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Terry

wondering why the Serbian Relief Fund is not recognised whilst the Scottish Womens Hospital is? surely they where facing the same risks - is her grave one of those non world war in the care of the Commission?

Chris

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Chris

Can't answer that. It was a decision of the War Office at the time. Research may throw up a reason.

She is not a Non-World War Grave in CWGC Care though one other member of SRF buried in Greece is.

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Who is the other member of the SRF who is in the care of CWGC please

Chris

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He is....

Sjt Major Alfred Barling DAVIDGE

Age 41 Died 16.05.17

Buried: Mikra British Cemetery, Greece - Grave 1566

Son of Charles James and Susanna Davidge of Kent

His rank is stated to be 'Honorary Rank in Serbian Army'

His grave is classified as 'Non-World War Dead in CWGC Care (Incidental and Conducive)'. This means that CWGC has no obligation to care for the grave nor agreement with any organisation to maintain it but it would be detrimental to a war grave plot for them not to do so. Therefore, it has obtained authority from its legal/finance departments to do so. The grave is obviously in a war grave cemetery and the casualty was buried there long before CWGC took over .

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Terry

thanks for that

Chris

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Chris

Something troubled me about my answer above. Even though no Serbian Relief Fund members are recorded as official war graves, I had it in the back of my mind that they did qualify so I am temporarily withdrawing my answer!

Today, I found what was prodding my brain! My memory wasn't at fault and there is one member of the SRF who has a war grave (Isobel Tate in Pieta Military Cemetery, Malta). She is listed as being a member of the Friends' War Victims Relief Committee with her 'Unit' being listed as Serbian Relief Fund. I am enquiring as to whether it is the FWVRC which got the casualty war grave status or whether her SRF membership would have sufficed on its own.

I'll let you know the outcome.

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Terry

thanks very much for that

Chris

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No CWGC commemoration for Lorna Ferris of the Serbia Relief Fund. I'm aware of her because I obtained her obituary and local war memorial commemoration for Jim Strawbridge's project. It would be nice to find that these ladies have been overlooked by CWGC, but I guess it's unlikely.

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Greyhound

if they have been overlooked by CWGC I would be happy to take her case on

Chris

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