chrisharley9 Posted 15 September , 2008 Share Posted 15 September , 2008 Just found yet another possible non commemorated from the Times archives First of all does the Serbian Relief Fund count as one of the organisations that are recognised by the CWGC for war grave purposes Secondly where do I find the DC refs for overseas civilian deaths during the Great War Will post the newspaper clippings later for all to see Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 15 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 15 September , 2008 Here are the newspaper cuttings from the Times of 15 July 1915 Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted 15 September , 2008 Share Posted 15 September , 2008 She was the mother of the war poet Geoffrey Dearmer of the 1/2nd London Regt (RF). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 15 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 15 September , 2008 Thanks for that little snippet Bill Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apwright Posted 16 September , 2008 Share Posted 16 September , 2008 Jessie Mabel Prichard WHITE, born Carnarvon 22 March 1872, daughter of Surgeon-Major William WHITE and Selina Taylor White PRICHARD. She married Percy DEARMER (vicar of St Mary-the-Virgin, Primrose Hill, author of The Parson's Handbook, among others) in Richmond, Surrey, on 26 May 1892. Rev Dearmer was chaplain to a British Red Cross ambulance unit in Serbia. Mabel, who worked at Stobart Hospital, Serbian Relief Fund, died of enteric fever on 11 July 1915. Bill has mentioned Geoffrey. Their other son Christopher was a Lieutenant in the RNAS who died of wounds on 6 October 1915 http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...asualty=4003937 Percy remarried in 1916 (to Nancy KNOWLES on 19 August 1916). Their son Anthony died in WW2 http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...asualty=2456428 (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Dearmer) As to whether Mabel Dearmer should be commemmorated, I think the answer is no (unfortunately), as the Serbian Relief Fund is not one of the civilian organisations recognised by CWGC. Terry D will know better, of course! She is buried in Kragujevac cemetery beside Dr Elizabeth Ross and nurse Lorna Ferriss. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 16 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 September , 2008 Adrian thanks for the additional info - yes im always hesitant on civilian organisations so will await TDs judgement Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 16 September , 2008 Share Posted 16 September , 2008 Chris, I came across a similar case at Sturry near Canterbury in Kent - Elsie Madeline BATES. See this PDF download (M Bates Plaque at end of report) - http://www.kentfallen.com/PDF%20REPORTS/STURRY%20NEW.pdf I have just found this thread which concerns her involving YOU! What a coincidence... http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...+madeline+bates http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...;hl=elsie+bates I was advised this lady wasn't entitled to be commemorated by the CWGC but in light of your thread and my past involvement perhaps it warrants looking at again? I was under the impression she died in France but it looks like you found the truth. I may write to the church in Sturry and provide more info about her. It's a shame I didn't find your thread when it was being discussed. If you know of anyone who wants a photo of that plaque in Sturry, tell em to get in touch with me. Female civilian volunteers and Nurses in WW1 seem to get a bit of a raw deal much the same as Merchantile Marine/Merchant Navy men. It's unfair and unjust as we all know but at least WW2 civilians do get a CWGC tribute (albeit a limited one). Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 17 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 17 September , 2008 Name: BATES, MADELINE ELSIE Initials: M E Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Sister Regiment/Service: Voluntary Aid Detachment Secondary Regiment: British Red Cross Society Age: 35 Date of Death: 22/12/1917 Additional information: Daughter of William John and Annie Maria Bates, of "Southover," Sturry, Kent. Born at Waltham Abbey, Essex. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Cemetery: SHENFIELD (ST. MARY) CHURCHYARD Neil looks like she has a CWGC commemoration - if you look at the Roll of Honour medical database Here you will find a photo of her grave coutesy of Tony M Chris Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 17 September , 2008 Share Posted 17 September , 2008 Blimey, I'm shocked!!!!!!!!!!! I found her plaque in the church in 2004 with Dave Hughes. Up to that point I had never heard of her. No one in the church knew the circumstances of her death. I looked into this lady's death about 4 years ago and she didn't have a commemoration then! I wrote to the CWGC and enquired why her name wasn't recorded on the indexes. I received a letter back stating the circumstances of her death did not qualify for commemoration. She wasn't on duty when she was killed she was on leave. I know at this time she wasn't recorded. I acknowledged that letter and left it there (but stated the unfairness of it). I never heard anything more... I wasn't aware at that time that certain civilian organisations were entitled to commemoration as a matter of fact. I only learned the truth recently when Terry Denham posted a helpful list on the forum. It looks like someone else has had her case reviewed? Or perhaps the CWGC added her name and forgot to tell me? If so then maybe I can now add a further non-com to our total???????? I wonder how long she's been on the index? Thanks for pointing this out Chris. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 17 September , 2008 Share Posted 17 September , 2008 Here it is - Note it states killed whilst on leave. I will let Martin Edwards have a copy for his database. I wonder if Tony M wants a copy too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 17 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 17 September , 2008 Neil dont worry about sending it to Martin as Im the keeper of the ROH medical database - I will just put in a link on her record PM Tony M for his e mail Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 17 September , 2008 Share Posted 17 September , 2008 I will email you a full size version now, use it as you please. Sorry to hijak your thread with this Nurse. I wonder if I should take credit for her com (33)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyhound Posted 17 September , 2008 Share Posted 17 September , 2008 I knew the name rang a bell - Percy Dearmer was the author of a number of hymns, including that old school favourite He Who Would Valiant Be. http://www.cyberhymnal.org/bio/d/e/a/dearmer_p.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 23 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 23 September , 2008 Terry do you have any comment on this thread Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 26 September , 2008 Share Posted 26 September , 2008 Chris Not seen this thread till now. The Serbian Relief Fund is not one of the civilian organisations recognised by the military for CWGC commemoration. Neil Madeline Bates has been in the CWGC database since before the records were computerised in 1995. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 26 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 26 September , 2008 Terry wondering why the Serbian Relief Fund is not recognised whilst the Scottish Womens Hospital is? surely they where facing the same risks - is her grave one of those non world war in the care of the Commission? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 26 September , 2008 Share Posted 26 September , 2008 Chris Can't answer that. It was a decision of the War Office at the time. Research may throw up a reason. She is not a Non-World War Grave in CWGC Care though one other member of SRF buried in Greece is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 26 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 26 September , 2008 Who is the other member of the SRF who is in the care of CWGC please Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 26 September , 2008 Share Posted 26 September , 2008 He is.... Sjt Major Alfred Barling DAVIDGE Age 41 Died 16.05.17 Buried: Mikra British Cemetery, Greece - Grave 1566 Son of Charles James and Susanna Davidge of Kent His rank is stated to be 'Honorary Rank in Serbian Army' His grave is classified as 'Non-World War Dead in CWGC Care (Incidental and Conducive)'. This means that CWGC has no obligation to care for the grave nor agreement with any organisation to maintain it but it would be detrimental to a war grave plot for them not to do so. Therefore, it has obtained authority from its legal/finance departments to do so. The grave is obviously in a war grave cemetery and the casualty was buried there long before CWGC took over . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 26 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 26 September , 2008 Terry thanks for that Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 29 September , 2008 Share Posted 29 September , 2008 Chris Something troubled me about my answer above. Even though no Serbian Relief Fund members are recorded as official war graves, I had it in the back of my mind that they did qualify so I am temporarily withdrawing my answer! Today, I found what was prodding my brain! My memory wasn't at fault and there is one member of the SRF who has a war grave (Isobel Tate in Pieta Military Cemetery, Malta). She is listed as being a member of the Friends' War Victims Relief Committee with her 'Unit' being listed as Serbian Relief Fund. I am enquiring as to whether it is the FWVRC which got the casualty war grave status or whether her SRF membership would have sufficed on its own. I'll let you know the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 29 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 29 September , 2008 Terry thanks very much for that Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyhound Posted 30 September , 2008 Share Posted 30 September , 2008 No CWGC commemoration for Lorna Ferris of the Serbia Relief Fund. I'm aware of her because I obtained her obituary and local war memorial commemoration for Jim Strawbridge's project. It would be nice to find that these ladies have been overlooked by CWGC, but I guess it's unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 30 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2008 Greyhound if they have been overlooked by CWGC I would be happy to take her case on Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyhound Posted 30 September , 2008 Share Posted 30 September , 2008 Chris, the obit etc is on page 9 of Jim's thread here . Jim may have further details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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