Terry Denham Posted 30 September , 2008 Share Posted 30 September , 2008 The situation from CWGC re the Serbian Relief Fund. The organisation does not appear on its current list of civilian organisations recognised under certain circumstances for war grave status and commemoration. However, one member of the organisation (Tate) does have war grave status but is listed as a member of the Friends War Victims Relief Committee with the Serbian Relief Fund being her subordinate 'unit'. The FWVRC is one of the recognised organisations. Interestingly, Tate is listed in the original 1930 CWGC register for Malta where she is buried as only belonging to the SRF - no mention of FWVRC. I suspect that the 'FWVRC' was added at a later date for some reason and that members of the SRF were originally thought (possibly erroneously) to qualify if they met the additional qualifications for such organisations. If Chris wishes to gather the evidence for Dearmer in the usual way, I am willing to put a test case together for submission. I do believe that the original intention was for the SRF to be on the list of recognised organisations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 30 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2008 Terry will do - there is now 3 possible cases for the SRF Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 30 September , 2008 Share Posted 30 September , 2008 They should be done at the same time. However, the qualifications have to be right. The other similar organisations qualification is "Where death occurred overseas whilst serving with or attached to the Commonwealth military forces". This suggests that being attached to the Serbian forces did not qualify. The crucial point seems to be the need for attachment to British forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 30 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2008 Terry just being having a look through the records for 2 ladies of the Scottish Womens Hospital Name: FRASER, MADGE NEILL Initials: M N Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Orderly Regiment/Service: Scottish Women's Hospital Date of Death: 08/03/1915 Additional information: Daughter of Mrs. M. Neill Fraser, of 50, Grange Rd., Edinburgh. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: D. 4. Cemetery: CHELA KULA MILITARY CEMETERY, NISH Name: JORDAN, LOUISA Initials: L Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Nursing Sister Regiment/Service: Scottish Women's Hospital Age: 36 Date of Death: 06/03/1915 Additional information: Daughter of the late Henry and Helen Jordan, of Maryhill, Glasgow. District Nurse at Buckhaven, Fife. Born at Maryhill. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: D. 5. Cemetery: CHELA KULA MILITARY CEMETERY, NISH Taking the dates of death & the area where they are buried they cannot have been attached to Commonwealth forces therefore the Serbian Relief Fund staff are either entitled to recognition or the SWH ladies have recognition in error - whatever the case lets not see the SWH ladies loose their recognition Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 30 September , 2008 Share Posted 30 September , 2008 Chris I don't think the attachment has to be physical. I suspect that for administrative purposes they came under some UK military authority somewhere. The same may well be the case for SRF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 30 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2008 Terry I see - could could you check Chela Kula Cemetery Nish for any non world war graves please - I have a hunch Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 30 September , 2008 Share Posted 30 September , 2008 Chris There are none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 30 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2008 Terry thanks - OK it was just a hunch Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 30 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2008 Anyone out there with a FindMyPast subscription who is prepared to help with the overseas death indices please Can offer by return stuff from Ancestry Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Clay Posted 30 September , 2008 Share Posted 30 September , 2008 Chris Give us the details, I'll have a look on FindMyPast. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 30 September , 2008 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2008 Jim can you bear with me as Im still at work - will let you have chapter & verse tomorrow some time - thanks for the offer of help Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Clay Posted 30 September , 2008 Share Posted 30 September , 2008 No problem, Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 1 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 1 October , 2008 Jim they are Lorna Ferris died June or July 1915 Mabel Dearmer died 11th July 1915 Richard Cecil Frederick Chichester died 31st July 1915 Cheers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 1 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 1 October , 2008 Jim another one please Violet Thomasina Fraser died 9th March 1919 Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Clay Posted 1 October , 2008 Share Posted 1 October , 2008 Hi Chris No trace of Ferris, Dearmer, Chichester or Fraser in the consular death indices I'm afraid. I can't understand why - but having looked at the GRO website, it appears that there's no legal requirement (at present - and it probably applied then, as well) to report deaths overseas to the GRO. So they could well have slipped through this net. Presumably their deaths will have been recorded in the country of death - but how you'd go about tracing the foreign death registrations I really don't know. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 1 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 1 October , 2008 Jim thanks for looking - back to the drawing board Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apwright Posted 1 October , 2008 Share Posted 1 October , 2008 No trace of Ferris, Dearmer, Chichester or Fraser in the consular death indices I'm afraid. I can't understand why - but having looked at the GRO website, it appears that there's no legal requirement (at present - and it probably applied then, as well) to report deaths overseas to the GRO. Also, in the case of Ferris and Dearmer in Serbia, consider that there was probably no consulate to report to. The British consular staff in Belgrade would have cleared out long before, probably in November 1914 when the city first fell to the Austro-Hungarians. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Clay Posted 1 October , 2008 Share Posted 1 October , 2008 Adrian Thanks for that - obviously a very good reason for those deaths not appearing on consular returns! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 3 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 3 October , 2008 See This News Article Looks like we have found two of the graves & thrown up another non commemorated - Elizabeth Ross Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 3 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 3 October , 2008 On the face of it we have plenty of reports of their deaths - we have the graves, but we dont have any death certificates So were does it go from here - Well Iam not going to let it rest Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 3 October , 2008 Share Posted 3 October , 2008 Thats the fighting spirit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyhound Posted 3 October , 2008 Share Posted 3 October , 2008 Lorna Ferris died on 4 July 1915 and her death, funeral and burial are described in her obituary. See link in post 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 3 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 3 October , 2008 Greyhound Yes got all that - thanks very much for your help - however the CWGC will not except newspaper reports as proof of death - yet we know where they are buried - just got to keep plugging away Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 3 October , 2008 Author Share Posted 3 October , 2008 Yet another 2 names from the Times of 18 Apr 1918 E V Bury N Clarke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyhound Posted 3 October , 2008 Share Posted 3 October , 2008 I meant that the information re Lorna was already to hand, and that her death is not what is in question. This is the reason for the non-commemoration: The (Serbian Relief Fund) does not appear on its current list of civilian organisations recognised under certain circumstances for war grave status and commemoration. It would be good if this situation could be reconsidered, so I wish you and Terry good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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