eviltaxman Posted 29 May , 2008 Share Posted 29 May , 2008 Hi Linden. Sorry but he's not listed on the medal roll. Therefore would not have been eligible for the SA Medal. For info regarding any service record, you could try contacting the South Wales Borderers/24th/Royal Regiment of Wales Museum at Brecon. They were able to supply me with copies (for a small fee) of my chaps entry on the paybooks. http://www.rrw.org.uk/museums/index.htm Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 29 May , 2008 Share Posted 29 May , 2008 I do'nt know everyone keeps saying it was the South Wales Borderers at Rorke's Drift. It was not, it was the 24 th Foot, 2nd Warwickshire Regiment. The 24th Regt. became The South Wales Borderers in 1881, Rorke's Drift was 1879. Mind you the film "Zulu" starred a Welshman and was narrated by a Welshman so they are bound to say it was a welsh Regiment. You're completely right John. The 24th Foot was made up of mainly Brummies!! After them came the chaps from Gloucestershire, London and then Wales. They never sang Men of Harlech in real life either. Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tafski Posted 29 May , 2008 Share Posted 29 May , 2008 John williams VC south wales borderers i believe became a recruiting sgt in ww1 john williams won his VC at rourkes drift one of 11 one that day, he is commerated at llantarnum church cwmbran tafski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linden Posted 29 May , 2008 Share Posted 29 May , 2008 Hi Linden. Sorry but he's not listed on the medal roll. Therefore would not have been eligible for the SA Medal. For info regarding any service record, you could try contacting the South Wales Borderers/24th/Royal Regiment of Wales Museum at Brecon. They were able to supply me with copies (for a small fee) of my chaps entry on the paybooks. http://www.rrw.org.uk/museums/index.htm Les Thank you Les . I'd wondered if he was mentioned in your book . If the book was about Rorke's Drift then Peter won't be there . I did find some mentions of him in paybooks at Kew (he joined up at age 13 ) ! Thank you for your help . Linden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 29 May , 2008 Share Posted 29 May , 2008 Les - the CWWGC entry mentions service in Afghanistan (presume 1880) - do you know anything of his service there or who he was attached to? Best - Garen Garen, I don't know the full history behind the 24th - many men were swapped around when they became the SWB in 1881. It is possible that he served in Afghanistan for a short time because many of the 24th came home in late 1879 and early 1880. After the name change their next theatre was India for which the Regiment won Battle Honours. For this they received the India GSM with "Burma 1885-75" clasp. Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilEvans Posted 29 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 29 May , 2008 Thanks for all the information. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tybaltstone Posted 29 May , 2008 Share Posted 29 May , 2008 Garen, I don't know the full history behind the 24th - many men were swapped around when they became the SWB in 1881. It is possible that he served in Afghanistan for a short time because many of the 24th came home in late 1879 and early 1880. After the name change their next theatre was India for which the Regiment won Battle Honours. For this they received the India GSM with "Burma 1885-75" clasp. Les Cheers, Les. Well, the 24th didn't serve as a regiment in the Second Anglo-Afghan war, and Blount doesn't seem to appear on the roll in a signalling capacity, which was often the case for men out of their regiment. The note on the CWWGC entry could be a mistake - though having said that, I did see an Afghan medal (with Kandahar clasp) for sale once to a "Jones 24th Regt." - but I presumed that was possibly a bit iffy (unless it was 24th Bengal - though no Jones present as an officer with them). - Garen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilEvans Posted 29 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 29 May , 2008 Think i stired up a hornets nest here, all damn good reading though, bar the film and the superb portrail of Welsh grit, i must admit i'm no expert on this conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 29 May , 2008 Share Posted 29 May , 2008 I suspect it wasn't the 24th in the context of the future SWB but another regiment, as you say, possibly an Indian regiment. The reason I say this is because an Afghanistan Medal I have in my collection is named..... 1852 Pte J Turner 2/60th Foot. The 24th Foot would have been shown as either 1/24th or 2/24th and not just 24th. Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilEvans Posted 29 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 29 May , 2008 Hi Les ,you may have a problem with your pic, i can see all the others except yours Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 29 May , 2008 Share Posted 29 May , 2008 Think i stired up a hornets nest here, all damn good reading though, bar the film and the superb portrail of Welsh grit, i must admit i'm no expert on this conflict. I've only really got in to this conflict after I expanded my WW1 medal collecting to include any Turner from any pre-WW2 punch up. I've now got an Afghanistan Medal w/ Ahmed Khel, India Medal 1895 w/Punjab Frontier 1897-98 and Tirah 1897-98 and a QSA w/OFS, Trans, LN, SA01 and 2 SA Medals with 1879 clasp. One of which is 1/24th Foot and a non-Turner (??!) to the 2/24th Foot This is also an expansion of my VC knowledge - comes in handy when running a VC site! Les Hi Les ,you may have a problem with your pic, i can see all the others except yours Neil Which pic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilEvans Posted 29 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 29 May , 2008 The posting one, avatar thingy i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 29 May , 2008 Share Posted 29 May , 2008 Thanks Neil. I deleted the wrong image from my hosting page on my site Thanks again, Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilEvans Posted 29 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 29 May , 2008 Ah it's back, glad to help Les well must be off to bed. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tybaltstone Posted 29 May , 2008 Share Posted 29 May , 2008 I suspect it wasn't the 24th in the context of the future SWB but another regiment, as you say, possibly an Indian regiment. The reason I say this is because an Afghanistan Medal I have in my collection is named..... 1852 Pte J Turner 2/60th Foot. The 24th Foot would have been shown as either 1/24th or 2/24th and not just 24th. Quite true, Les - in fact the seller mentioned the edge engraving was not clear, and all that could be made out was Jones and 24th. The 24th Bengal had no officer called Jones, and the 24th Bombay had no officer called Jones - anyone else in those regiments would be unlikely to be called Jones! Anyway - maybe 24th was a mis-reading. Do you have any research on John Turner (60th Foot)? Any idea why he didn't stay with his regiment to get the Kandahar clasp and Bronze Star? All best - Garen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 30 May , 2008 Share Posted 30 May , 2008 I've only recently picked the medal up and have checked the book version of the medal roll (the usual typed info) and I've got a copy of the original page from the medal roll itself. Both state only due the one clasp. The Battle of Ahmed Khel was April 1880 but the K-K march was 3rd August to 31st August 1880. There is the possibility that he had left the regiment by then..... only time & much research will tell. Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linden Posted 30 May , 2008 Share Posted 30 May , 2008 Quite true, Les - in fact the seller mentioned the edge engraving was not clear, and all that could be made out was Jones and 24th. The 24th Bengal had no officer called Jones, and the 24th Bombay had no officer called Jones - anyone else in those regiments would be unlikely to be called Jones! Anyway - maybe 24th was a mis-reading. Do you have any research on John Turner (60th Foot)? Any idea why he didn't stay with his regiment to get the Kandahar clasp and Bronze Star? All best - Garen Hello Garen How are you able to check several regiments for a Jones ? I've lost a couple of ancestors in the 1800's and I wondered whether they might have run away to sea or to be a soldier , but I wouldn't have any idea about how to start checking . Is there a list of some sort ? Regards , Linden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tybaltstone Posted 30 May , 2008 Share Posted 30 May , 2008 Hello Garen How are you able to check several regiments for a Jones ? I've lost a couple of ancestors in the 1800's and I wondered whether they might have run away to sea or to be a soldier , but I wouldn't have any idea about how to start checking . Is there a list of some sort ? Regards , Linden Hello Linden - my only area of expertise is the Second Anglo-Afghan War for which I have officer lists and the medal roll. Obviously the medal roll is not searchable, except by eyeball, but officers in the Indian regiments were generally the only Europeans, so a Jones in the 24th Bengal Infantry, for instance, would be easy to find. All best - Garen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilEvans Posted 1 June , 2008 Author Share Posted 1 June , 2008 Well looks like either: 1. Lt. Colonel T.J Boxall, compiler, of the Wrekin Roll of Honour was fed some wrong information and/or 2. The newspaper he transcribed from was incorrect. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linden Posted 1 June , 2008 Share Posted 1 June , 2008 Hello Linden - my only area of expertise is the Second Anglo-Afghan War for which I have officer lists and the medal roll. Obviously the medal roll is not searchable, except by eyeball, but officers in the Indian regiments were generally the only Europeans, so a Jones in the 24th Bengal Infantry, for instance, would be easy to find. All best - Garen Thanks Garen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 1 June , 2008 Share Posted 1 June , 2008 The 24th Foot was made up of mainly Brummies!! .... They never sang Men of Harlech in real life either. Les Was it Men of Halesowen they sang? Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFF Posted 1 June , 2008 Share Posted 1 June , 2008 Did those at Raork's Drift receive a clasp for the Battle ? And a "South Africian" medal to boot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eviltaxman Posted 2 June , 2008 Share Posted 2 June , 2008 Did those at Raork's Drift receive a clasp for the Battle ? And a "South Africian" medal to boot? Unfortunately no. There were no battle clasps (like the QSA) only a range of different "year" clasps..... 1877, 1878, 1879, 1877-8, 1878-9, 1877-8-9. So whether they were fighting the Zulus (which was the latter part of the conflict) or the Galkas, Galekas, Kafir Tribes, Pokewane, Griques, Sekukuni or against Moirosi's Stronghold, they received a simple clasp with the year(s) they were involved. If they didn't cross the Tugela River, then no clasp was issued. Here's a couple from my collection. Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilEvans Posted 3 June , 2008 Author Share Posted 3 June , 2008 To quote from PJ Boxall's Wrekin Roll of honour. 'One of the Rorke's Drift heroes' I must add, he primarily researched newspapers, thus it could be a mistake that was made in 1915. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted 3 June , 2008 Share Posted 3 June , 2008 I know absolutely nothing about this topic, or rather, I didn't. I have read with fascination......thanks all! Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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